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Selegiline (l-deprenyl) - too good to be true?

I haven't really looked much past the role of melatonin, but the role of CREB ( cAMP response element binding protein) is important in melatonin production.

I wonder if adreno responses are reduced as eyesight deterioates with age, and if so, would this then have effect on cAMP levels asosciated with the pathway.

Below is taken from Angelfire (advertising on link so no URL)

Pineal-gland.gif


Figure 1.1. Schematic representation of the pathway from the eye to the pineal gland. SCN- suprachiasmatic nucleus; PVN – paraventricular nucleus; UTC – upper thoracic spinal cord; SCG – superior cervical ganglion; A-R – alpha adrenergic receptor; B-R – beta adrenergic receptor; CREB – cAMP response element binding protein; V – Ventricles of the Brain; C – Capillaries. The arrow behind cAMP indicates an increase in its concentration following stimulation of A-R or B-R by norepinephrine.
 
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I've been told CREB is directly important to memory formation itself however... I don't know enough neuroscience to say whether this is true or not... I've also been told its why phosphodiesterase inhibitors may allow improved memory formation?
 
doofhard -
get a good multivitamin, 5HTP, choline and piracetam. The last two improve memory.
if your condition is the result of drug use, you should just wait. I really dont believe trying to find yourself an antidepressant is the answer.
You have to take the consequences of your actions...antidepressants shouldnt be used as an easy way out, and if you speak to most people on them, you'll find that they aren't easy things to be on.
just stick it out because eventually your memory will return and you'll stop being scattered. The supplements i mentioned will help you along the way.
 
What a let down on the selegiline. I was so excited at the prospect of its benefits when we were first looking into it.
 
^^Pippin, I think that may be jumping the gun a little! After readin all the literature and research on the net Im still excited about dep.

I think rec drug users can fall into the trap of expecting too much from nootropics etc, after having such instant and gratifying results after 30-40mins on the usual drug of choice.... the subtleties of cognitive enhancing drugs may go unnoticed. Obviously cant speak for everyone but I know this has certainly been the case for me on occassions.

:)
 
I'm not saying selegiline didn't work -- in fact it appears to have worked and quite well too... Perhaps I was just too "greedy" in my expectations :)

I'd certainly do it again :D
 
I totally respect your last comment P_D...Im just interested if there is anyway it can be done with caution.
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Sorry for not responding sooner to your question pinkanga. I'm always hesitant to suggest poly drug use, particularly on a regular basis when a MAOI's involved. However, if you're confident you're up to scratch with the theory, and experience indicates otherwise, who am I to advise?

I would talk to your GP about this, although it would be hard to imagine a sympathetic one would be easy to find. Deprenyl is contraindicated with amphetamine, for me that would be enough. Have you perhaps thought about a crash withdrawal from dex, followed by a 3 month course in deprenyl? I'm sure it would be no joy ride, but transitions 2 and from MAOI's rarely are.
 
Cheers p_d, I have thought about that decided thats the way its gonna happen. Too risky n I dont know enough about it.
Thanks.
 
I was sposed to be doing it with Velocidex the first time round, but actually only got to have some on three occaisions...and that was half a tablet.
so im excluding my experience...


just what Velocidex has said about the memory being there but not... having to have naps in the afternoon. Velocidex when we've spoken about it, you've been far from excited...

i dunno. its not the wonder drug that was once raved about to me, so i guess yea..the reality IS a let down.
 
I've been having naps in the afternoon cos im lazy :P

I honestly do think that its helped and quite well...

I did my quantum mechanics exam today, and it was unbelievable.... looking at the questions I got like snapshots of my notes just pop into my head... I was writing huge amounts of stuff down from memory without having to think about it at all... that was really cool.

Just checked all my numerical computations... I think I got full marks?
 
^^ at the same time, you did f*cking well in your physics exams at the end of last year... you werent studying all that much and we were partying heaps throughout...


so im not surprised you're doing better. :)
 
After some three weeks of taking 5 mg/day of selegiline I took my last tablet on a Friday morning.

The following tuesday (4-5 days later) some pills came our way, and I decided to see what would happen.

I was extremely cautious: at the slightest sign of a problem I was fine with going straight to hospital. I had valium on hand as well.

I consumed the pill in quarters.

The pill was good, everyone seemed to enjoy it all round.

(I realise that taking pills in quarters usually doesn't do all that much, but hey I was trying to be careful).

After the third quarter I noticed that my heart rate was quite high... 130bpm perhaps (I didn't time it, only estimated). Though the pills ended up being MDA pills, I still felt that my heart rate was higher than it should have been.

Moreover my heart rate did not really return to normal until the following evening.

At one point (some 4 or 5 hours after taking the pill) I thought I was on the verge of getting a severe headache -- a bad sign... it started but disappeared as quickly as it had come.

I didn't feel overly warm at all during the period.

My conclusion: After a long course of selegiline, one should be very careful consuming pills. There does seem to be a non-negligible cardiovascular interaction.

(sorry if this is all badly phrased; I'm tired as)
 
deprenyl increase or reduce dopamine levels

Dosages above 20 mg/day are likely to seriously elevate blood pressure due to MAO-A inhibition. Blood pressure elevation may occur in some people with much lower doses.Since selegiline binds to MAO-B irreversibly, a single 5 mg dose can cause 90% reduction in dopamine for 5 days and does not return to baseline for 2 weeks. However, past the age of 45 there is a dramatic increase in the levels of MAO-B synthesized by glial cells, so optimal MAO-B inhibition may require higher doses of selegiline.
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^^From deprenyl information site.

Im confused about the section in bold. I was under the impression that deprenyl increased dopamine levels by inhibiting MAO-B as MAO-B is the chemical that breaks down dopamine?
 
Not really... the effect is non-linear. Strictly its the solution to a differential equation, but its more likely to work as a geometric series (or close enough to it)
 
I have been taking deprenyl once a week (on average 5-10mg a week) for about 6 months, and in my experience, if I take deprenyl, especially a 10mg dose, then for a next few days if I eat lots of tyramine food, like aged cheese and chocolate, home brew (yeast), ect, I will get a pain in my temples. If i stay away from tyramine food, I do not get this temple pressure/pain. When I get this pain in my temples, and I rub my temples, the veins/(arteries?) all seem to be 'standing up' (enlarged).

I used to get the same reaction when I used to take moclobemide (aurorix) and eat lots of tyramine food a few years ago. That was the main reason I stopped taking moclobemide. I guess some people are more sensative to tyramine than others.

I have one friend, who if he lots of tyramine food with NO drugs, get headaches and pain in this temples. He seems to be super sensative to tyramine. If he takes any MAOI like moclobemide or deprenyl, or even prozac (Prozac is a mild MAOI) he automatically gets headaches and pain in his temple, so he has to stay away from them completely.

Just warning other people that they may need to modify their diet on deprenyl.
 
Everyone's mileage may vary. It's worth noting that all the studies involving acceptable dosages for deprenyl are done on old people with parkinsons. MAOB levels climb through age, and so necessarily a smaller dose is needed for a young person to achieve the same level of MAO-B inhibition.

Meanwhile my source for cheap deprenyl has dried up =\
 
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