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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Selegiline (l-deprenyl) - too good to be true?

for me and my bf, the point was never to take it for recreational purposes, but for the nootropic benefits.

i was under the impression that the 10mg dosage was the point at which it became unselective and the diet had to be observed and that in theory it could go up to twice that dependent on the individual...and that the dose i was taking - 5mg every other day - was safe enough.

in regards to seratonin syndrome. i dumped a whole the day after having my first 5mg. nothing dreadful happened. indeed, very little happened at all lol. temperature and blood pressure, though, were better than normal.
i recognise that was after only one dose and i believe the effect is cummulative but even if we had considered doing it again, the experience was such a failure, im not interested in wasting my money anyway.

i cant enter into a huge scientific conversation with you over this, because i dont have a scientific background at all. But i can repeat what my bf and i have been talking about for a long time...and some of what has been spoken about in this thread.

i think a lot of the things you have brought up have been discussed in this thread, and i know you only browsed it but you might find our responses to your points in there already ...
 
Adam X said:
5. Is anyone capable of posting references on this website???
Click to expand...

The problem of references is an interesting one for this drug. Deprenyl is used largely to treat the symptoms of a terminal disease, and thus it's hard to find studies which examine the results of it in healthy patients.

Moreover, some things (such as the level of receptor downregulation) are not necessarily relevant in this treatment, and so unlikely to be funded. If the drug is effective in delaying or slowing the decline of parkinson's patients, then that is all the studies are really after. They are less interested in properties of the drug which may have no impact on the disease.
 
Adam X said:
3. Aromatic amino acids (phenylalanine, tyrosine, tryptophan) need to be taken with copious amounts of vitamin B6 (5:1 amino acid/B6 ratio) and need to be taken on a completely empty stomach (at least 3 hours fasting) followed by another 60-90 minutes of fasting.
Click to expand...

On what basis have you decided this is the optimal ratio?
 
I would have thought 5mg/day was a good dose to start with. I thought much over 10mg/day resulted in MAO-A non-reversible inihibition, and you don't want that.

As nanobrain mentioned, to noticeably feel the effects of deprenyl, it needs to be taken daily for a month or more. As for what percentage of MAO-B is inhibited: As you probably know, MAO-B levels increase with age, and also with some neurological, and catecholamine related diseases.

Deprenyl acts as a substrate for MAO-B, so the amount of MAO-B destroyed by non-reversible binding-inhibition, is related to both the binding kinetics (affinity) and efficacy involved, but also, and just as important; the availability of the enzyme on both sides of the blood brain barrier.
 
There are conflicting reports and opinions on taking vit. B with 5-htp. Cant remember the exact details but some are totally against it due to the possibility of heart problems.

Feel free to correct me........ it was a while ago that I read about this. :)
 
What percentage it would lower depends on so many things... bioavailability is a big problem with selegiline, so the actual amount could fluctuate by as much as an order of magnitude (factor of 10>

standingtruth - what are you trying to achieve with that dosing regime?

There is a difference in that many of selegiline's anti-neurodegenerative properties have been attributed to the compound itself (due to the fact that its a propargyl amine.... these are under quite intense investigation at the moment for their apparently beneficial neurological properties) or some of its metabolites.
 
VelocideX -- I was responding to a question that i didn't understand what the intentions were, so my response had no intentions..
btw, I personally had no problems at 15mg/day (drug/food interactions).. next week i'll probably go to 20-30mg/day + other parkinsons meds. (what i'm trying to achieve is a long term solution for mood/anxiety/esteem)

yes, bioavailability can be a problem, thats why there is also a selegiline patch (which i'll switch to if my insurance approves it)
 
20-30mg/day oral is asking for drug interactions. The manufacturers report interactions down to 10mg/day in some people.... hence the reason people say stick to that or less.

Will you be following the MAOI diet? I cannot emphasise enough how important this is. Sure, you might be fine, but is it worth ending up with a hypertensive crisis which causes a stroke or heart attack?

If you're after mood/self-esteem fixes - have you actually tried the standard antidepressants? for MAOIs, MAO-A inhibition is traditionally viewed as necessary to effect an antidepressant effect, through its effect on both serotonin and noradrenaline.

Serotonin and/or noradrenaline reuptake inibitors usually manifest an antidepressant effect. Dopamine reuptake inhibitors generally are not thought by the medical world to have the same sustained effect (they work wonders as short term antidepressants but its unsustainable)
 
^^ Decarboxylation to serotonin. If this occurs before 5HTP crosses the BBB, serotonin (5HT) is produced outside the brain. There are 5HT receptors located throughout the body, governing everything from mood, to appetite, to arterial dilation.

Areas of the heart also contain serotonin receptors, the fear being that too much serotonin produced outside the brain may become life threatening. Most 5HTP taken orally is metabolised in the liver to serotonin, unless carbidopa (decarboxylase inhibitor) or similar is also taken. (Some debate on this issue however). Normally, almost all serotonin produced in the body is in the brain as tryptophan hydroxylase is the governing or rate limiting process, controlling when, where, and how much serotonin is produced. People with a rare stomach disease produce more serotonin in the stomach and digestive tract, making them prone to heart disease.


A relevant case was when South Sea Islanders, due to their crops being wiped out by a Hurricane, were forced to eat green bananas which contain high levels of serotonin. What followed was reportedly due to the effects of 5HT on the heart valves, which caused a proliferation of cells that became fibrous. Several people died as a result.

I can't find the original paper, although I have read it. Here's the only thing a google came up with. It briefly mentions the story, but echos warnings regarding 5HTP and the heart.

5HTP comments
 
The best ant-depressant is a combination of proper diet, excercise and abstaining from recreational drug use.


X
 
Adam X said:
The best ant-depressant is a combination of proper diet, excercise and abstaining from recreational drug use.


X
Click to expand...

That would be nice and easy, but it does not hold true because psychopathology is a component of inclusive fitness.
 
Adam X said:
The best ant-depressant is a combination of proper diet, excercise and abstaining from recreational drug use.
Click to expand...

What about a person such as myself, who eats extremely healthily, goes running twice a week, does karate and in general looks after himself fairly well?

what you're saying is tantamount to telling people with depression that they should get over it.

whilst all of the aforementioned do help, unfortunately people do become depressed and there's very little they can do about it.

I, for instance, am someone who needed pharmaceutical antidepressant therapy because of the situation I was in. I believe it saved my life.
Moclobemide = godsend.
 
Although the general theme of this thread has been cognitive enhancement... after taking deprenyl on three occasions last week, (tues, thurs, sat), I decided to have a beige A on Sun night. It was extremely intense. Granted these are reported to be nice n' strong I have never experienced memory loss as I did on Sun night from just one pill. I also had 2400mg piracetam during the day.

Im not sure if that was even long enough taking deprenly to have an effect, but it seems that the general rule of -taking l-dep the day before rolling will diminish the roll- cant be true on all occasions.
 
I think just the piracetam with an A would be enough to leave big gaps in your memories of the night.

BigTrancer :)
 
^^ Hey BT I agree. The piracetam was definitlely a variable that needs to be considered. In hindsight there was too many variables....

But anyway, taking 5mg selegeline 3 times a week, every other day. Will see how this weekend pans out. DISCLAIMER: My reason for taking this drug was not for roll enhancement. It has just worked out that some event/partys have occored recently.!:)
 
Im dubious as to the value of selegiline in some ways...

having taken 15mg/week I found that alcohol made me very very tired... hypotension and sedation is listed on some websites as a possibility for this combination... even phenylalanine + caffeine didn't really help all that much.

also: for 2-3 weeks after taking the selegiline pills seemed much different... I never really felt like i "peaked".... it was fun, there was this long comeup, but the serotonergic effects didn't seem as prominent really....

It may simply be that the euphoria was missing? It's hard to describe... multiple studies list selegiline as a possible treatment for amphetamine abuse as it reduces the high...

=\
 
Yeah maybe not for rec drugs... but I still like the idea of the cognitive and life extending claims.

I havent been taking it 'cause Im prob going to be going on medication for add, which I have just been diagnosed with and Im not sure how it will interact.
 
^^ Please don't take ADD medication with deprenyl. Most ADD medication has some effect on dopamine release, and selegiline prevents it's breakdown - potentially a very dangerous combination.

One or t other, but not both together!!
 
Cheers for that mate. ^^^ Are you referring to th standard med like ritalin or the alternative like strattera. Im still not that clued up as Im waiting for an appointment with a psych, but ive read about the different types.
 
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