Save Nguyen Tuong Van
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aunty establishment
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Hi all - I'm attending the funeral for this at 1pm today (4pm EST) so if anyone wants me to deliver condolences on their behalf please post them and I'll leave a print out for the family.
William Marwood introduced the "long drop". He realised that each person required a different drop, based on the prisoner's weight, which would dislocate the cervical vertebrae resulting in "instantaneous" death.
A process of sometimes grisly experimentation led to the discovery that an energy of 1260 foot pounds (1710 joules) would have the desired effect, so one could calculate the required drop by dividing 1260 by the weight of the victim: a person weighing 112 pounds (50.8 kg) required a drop of 11'4" (3.43 m).
Three and a half metres is a very long way to fall isn't it.
A process of sometimes grisly experimentation led to the discovery that an energy of 1260 foot pounds (1710 joules) would have the desired effect, so one could calculate the required drop by dividing 1260 by the weight of the victim: a person weighing 112 pounds (50.8 kg) required a drop of 11'4" (3.43 m).
Three and a half metres is a very long way to fall isn't it.
ilovemyself
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clop said:
Calcute how to kill a man perfectly. Isnt it sick and evil? To me, it's like those SS scientists tortured the Jews to death in their science projects.
Jimity
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^^^
While the way they worked it out was pretty twisted, it did make for a much more humane* and less bloody death.
Dont forget, this was done back when nearly every country had capital punishment and used it all the time. It was necessary to know how to kill someone instantly and without pain. Just like the LD-50 tests various governments and drug companies do on drugs to find out how to use them effectively.
*Noone start on how the death penalty is inhumane anyway, I know this. But swinging from the end of a rope and losing consciousness instantly is more humane then your head separating from your body or slowly choking.
While the way they worked it out was pretty twisted, it did make for a much more humane* and less bloody death.
Dont forget, this was done back when nearly every country had capital punishment and used it all the time. It was necessary to know how to kill someone instantly and without pain. Just like the LD-50 tests various governments and drug companies do on drugs to find out how to use them effectively.
*Noone start on how the death penalty is inhumane anyway, I know this. But swinging from the end of a rope and losing consciousness instantly is more humane then your head separating from your body or slowly choking.
aunty establishment
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pete - done. thank you 
I took the title off it as I thought it might be upsetting to the family and left it anonymous for Singaporean b/s reasons. Off now, will let you know what it was like.
I took the title off it as I thought it might be upsetting to the family and left it anonymous for Singaporean b/s reasons. Off now, will let you know what it was like.
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MaXaM
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What a terrible and shameful situation. A state sanctioned execution/murder of a fellow human being. Taking a life, killing a brother, killing a son, killing a friend, killing a workmate, killing YOU?
Why kill somebody for? For carrying drugs? Drugs that kill other people?
Yeah i guess that is a fair enough reason, isnt it? Lets kill someone for supplying drugs that kill other humans.
Okay, lets kill Nguyen Tuong Van, because he tried to supply people with drugs that could kill them. Um...
Don't WE decide what WE do with our own bodies? Is it not us who decides what we eat, drink, swallow, smoke, snort, inject? Take responsibility for yourself, make the government realise that drug dealers are only supplying something that YOU demand.
I am deeply saddened by the reaction of certain members of bluelight. Also, members of our society, who get media attention claiming that Van deserved to die. NOBODY deserves to DIE, FULLSTOP. Get off your high horse and put yourself in their shoes.
Why kill somebody for? For carrying drugs? Drugs that kill other people?
Yeah i guess that is a fair enough reason, isnt it? Lets kill someone for supplying drugs that kill other humans.
Okay, lets kill Nguyen Tuong Van, because he tried to supply people with drugs that could kill them. Um...
Don't WE decide what WE do with our own bodies? Is it not us who decides what we eat, drink, swallow, smoke, snort, inject? Take responsibility for yourself, make the government realise that drug dealers are only supplying something that YOU demand.
I am deeply saddened by the reaction of certain members of bluelight. Also, members of our society, who get media attention claiming that Van deserved to die. NOBODY deserves to DIE, FULLSTOP. Get off your high horse and put yourself in their shoes.
ilovemyself
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MaXaM said:
Its true. Moreover, he was not a supplier. He was just a small link in the chain. His motive was not harming anyone. He was after the big bucks. You may say he was greedy, knew what the consequent would be therefore he deserved to die. But hey, will you blame anyone participate in the production of weapons used in Iraq or even the Australian soldiers or just go around big mouth abt the gov? Everybody just tries to earn money from a job.
Don' talk ill abt the dead. He can hear u now!
chugs
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"DO I have a chance?" he joked.
As he stood in the doorway of his cell, just a short walk from the gallows, Nguyen Tuong Van turned to his guards and asked the question all Changi prisoners ask as they leave for court.
"Bu chance bu?" he said,
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/one-last-touching-joke-before-the-end/2005/12/02/1133422108704.html
Does this sound like the words of someone who should die? Someone so evil, so terrible that the only response is death.
For all those emotional cripples who didn't feel anything - when his neck was broken, when the last gasp of breath was forced out of his lung whilst his fluttering eyes stared lifelessly out of his head - you should really examine your life, yourself because you're the ones responsible for the perputation of these crimes against not only those who are killed by the state, but all of humanity.
I don't just hold the hangman guilty for this but you - you for letting this happen. You for arguing that hallowed rights of a foriegn country outweigh that of an individual....
Your poisonous opinions and complete and utter lack of empathy & comprehension have cursed us all.
As he stood in the doorway of his cell, just a short walk from the gallows, Nguyen Tuong Van turned to his guards and asked the question all Changi prisoners ask as they leave for court.
"Bu chance bu?" he said,
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/one-last-touching-joke-before-the-end/2005/12/02/1133422108704.html
Does this sound like the words of someone who should die? Someone so evil, so terrible that the only response is death.
For all those emotional cripples who didn't feel anything - when his neck was broken, when the last gasp of breath was forced out of his lung whilst his fluttering eyes stared lifelessly out of his head - you should really examine your life, yourself because you're the ones responsible for the perputation of these crimes against not only those who are killed by the state, but all of humanity.
I don't just hold the hangman guilty for this but you - you for letting this happen. You for arguing that hallowed rights of a foriegn country outweigh that of an individual....
Your poisonous opinions and complete and utter lack of empathy & comprehension have cursed us all.
psilonaught
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Singapore is really lagging behind other rich countries and even amongst other s.e asian countries as far as free speech and civil liberties are concerned.
A pretty sad situation, but at the end of the day he was carrying a large amount of herion into a country in which such a crime has a mandatory death sentence so really theres only one person to blame for all this.
A pretty sad situation, but at the end of the day he was carrying a large amount of herion into a country in which such a crime has a mandatory death sentence so really theres only one person to blame for all this.
dementedgoat
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he made the decision to try and seriously smuggle a drug through an airport which is an illegal act just about anywhere and in taking that risk he was executed for being caught... its still a little harsh though but this is just another day gone on the planet earth.. there were worse things happening somewhere else at the exact same moment for no reason in particular, im sure.. its a shitty place, anyway, i say we blow it up and burn it down!!! i mean if we cant just get along, educate ourselves, learn from the past, get over all this greed and hate, and live in peace: FUCK IT-- lets blow it to pieces
plazma
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chugs said:
Fuck oath. I find myself STILL utterly able to comprehend how, as so many people have said, such a high proportion of people on a harm minimisation/reduction site can be so fucking callous about someone who died as a DIRECT result of the War on Drugs. Aside from any argument about capital punishment which is a vile, unethical and immoral act, which barbarises ANY society that implements it.
Splatt, I'm dissapointed in you man.
I'm astounded that people can say a state or national boundary validates anything that the state across the line chooses to implement just by virtue of the fact that it is a state doing it. For fucks sake, Iraq was a sovereign state, and its laws weren't deemed to be valid, Yugoslavia was a valid state and its laws weren't deemed to be valid. As St Augustine said, "An unjust law is no law at all". A case which has been proved time and again in international law, so NOBODY can use the argument of state soverignty with respect to this case. Or Capital Punishment in general, which we should as a signatory to the UN convention concerned with the abolition of the Death Penalty, be committed to doing, instead of sitting on our national hands behind a veil of diplomatic farce, accomplishing nothing and letting another hideous injustice be committed, this is with respect to Singapore, the US, and China, as well as other countries with the death penalty that Australia has diplomatic relations with.
Fucking hell, what a waste of life.
-plaz out-
SIM-1
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An old guy said to me the other day (he owns the coffee shop where we get our fave coffee Ground) He's pretty old & Doesnt say much I thought it interesting when he turned to us and said "i'm so depressed sbout that boy dying this morning, Now You can all see what singapour is like" .....
He's from singapour.
He's from singapour.
As I keep saying, Singapore has executed only 420 people since 1995, around 40 per year. Globally, almost 4000 people were "lawfully" executed last year.
You're scapegoating Singapore because they killed an Australian.
Try to see humans as humans and not nationals.
clop
You're scapegoating Singapore because they killed an Australian.
Try to see humans as humans and not nationals.
clop
charlesbronson
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^ that statistic is precisely the reason that Singapore is targeted so vigorously by many campaigners; they have the highest PER CAPITA execution rate of any nation in the world (see below). looking at isolated raw figures doesn't always tell the full story, i.e. different population size will naturally result in different overall number of prisoners executed.
instead of pooping on the parade, join in and give people some reasons or some impetus to extend their disdain with singapore over recent events to other nations that espouse capital punishment.
Reference:
three reasons justifying that which you have dubbed the "scapegoating" of singapore on this board:
1 - they target drug addicts, ie. people with a medical illness, and execute them for their 'crime', as well as other drug offenders that wouldn't even get life sentences in more progressive nations. singapore is a prime example of the war on drugs in its most psychotic and venomous embodiment - that makes it particularly relevant to us bluelighters.
2 - highest per capita rate of executions in the world (certainly in the western capitalist world) makes singapore a prime target; take out the biggest player and send a strong message to the others - although their highest rate may not entail the highest loss of human life, such a high rate of executions is a regressive tendency that stands in the way of global progress toward abolition of capital punishment, lead by the UN.
3 - Van Nguyen was a drug-related offender. many people (especially Bluelighters) would argue that not only is the death penalty vulgar in all circumstances, but that it is ESPECIALLY irrational when used to punish people who are involved with drugs for whatever reason.
further, refer to all other reasons mentioned by previous posters.
fuck, in summary, singapore DESERVES the heavy and pointed criticism. the fact that it is targeted like it is in this thread does not negate the violations of other countries that utilise capital punishment, so all in all, i only see positives arising from criticism directed specifically against singapore in this thread - i am sure that if you asked participants in this thread if they approved of state executions in countries other than singapore, they wouldn't go "yeah sure as long as it's not an aussie drug runner being killed no probs". focal discussion on a specific topic of interest will generally stimulate wider contemplation of the issue on a broader scale.
More reading:
instead of pooping on the parade, join in and give people some reasons or some impetus to extend their disdain with singapore over recent events to other nations that espouse capital punishment.
Reference:
three reasons justifying that which you have dubbed the "scapegoating" of singapore on this board:
1 - they target drug addicts, ie. people with a medical illness, and execute them for their 'crime', as well as other drug offenders that wouldn't even get life sentences in more progressive nations. singapore is a prime example of the war on drugs in its most psychotic and venomous embodiment - that makes it particularly relevant to us bluelighters.
2 - highest per capita rate of executions in the world (certainly in the western capitalist world) makes singapore a prime target; take out the biggest player and send a strong message to the others - although their highest rate may not entail the highest loss of human life, such a high rate of executions is a regressive tendency that stands in the way of global progress toward abolition of capital punishment, lead by the UN.
3 - Van Nguyen was a drug-related offender. many people (especially Bluelighters) would argue that not only is the death penalty vulgar in all circumstances, but that it is ESPECIALLY irrational when used to punish people who are involved with drugs for whatever reason.
further, refer to all other reasons mentioned by previous posters.
fuck, in summary, singapore DESERVES the heavy and pointed criticism. the fact that it is targeted like it is in this thread does not negate the violations of other countries that utilise capital punishment, so all in all, i only see positives arising from criticism directed specifically against singapore in this thread - i am sure that if you asked participants in this thread if they approved of state executions in countries other than singapore, they wouldn't go "yeah sure as long as it's not an aussie drug runner being killed no probs". focal discussion on a specific topic of interest will generally stimulate wider contemplation of the issue on a broader scale.
More reading:
Source
Amnesty International Report: "SINGAPORE - The death penalty: A hidden toll of executions" 15 January 2004
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