Running Nerds Unite

[fairnymph]

phase_dancer, that is a horribly sad story.

 

[lifeisforliving]

I just started running again *knock on wood*, after about 6 months of not running at all.
I've run 5 days in a row, about 20 min each time, which is a bit over 2 miles for me at this point.
I've been a big runner in the past, running up to 50-60 miles a week at one stage. Ideally, I like to run 6 days a week, and run at least 3.5, but preferably 5, miles a day.
I tend to injure myself when I start running again because I push myself too hard too fast. So far I've been blissfully injury and twinge free, and that makes me wonder if I can start pushing myself a bit harder...? I'd planned to do another 20 min run today, then take my rest day, then do 30 min for the next 6 days, but I'm wondering if maybe I can start throwing some longer runs in next week as well? Like 45 min or an hour? What do you think?

I see so many people here speak of running most days of the week... Whenever I have a schedule for running more than 4 times a week or so, I start getting injuries and don't really improve much.

I thought that running could be equal, in terms of healing, as with any other exercise - that by overstressing and then allowing time for healing (more than 24 hours) you build muscle/endurance the fastest. Is running, being more a cardio workout than actually "tearing muscle", more of a daily thing?

I've run all my life... but never everyday... that would seem like I would be tearing my knees over time. Maybe it's something I should't worry about?

My current (and favourite) pattern is: 5k, 10k,off 15k,off -> repeat. By the end of the 15k I need a day to heal for sure. I have done one 10k race this year so far, and I'm signed up for a couple more so far.. I have aspirations of improving my 10k time. Should I run more days per week? Or increase distance?

 

[fairnymph]

Well, I've always tried to run 6 days a week. I know people who almost never take a day off, but pretty much everyone says you should take a day off a week.

I'm no more likely, in my time running, at least, to get injured running 6 days a week than 4 days a week.

When I'm running longer distances I definitely will break it up a bit, run further and slower some days, shorter and faster others, speed workouts every now and then, etc.

Running is very powerful for my mental well being -- but ONLY if I do it 6 days a week, and I'm running at least 5k a day. I don't get nearly the same effect if I run only 4 days a week. It's the constant daily cardio that is key for me I think.

The other thing is, if you skip more than a day running, your lung capacity drops drastically, and hell it even drops when you skip one day, though not nearly as much. So it's best for cardio reasons to run daily.

 

[Tokey-tokerson]

I just ran 7 miles, took a hot shower, got into some clean clothes, then I ate a bunch of carbs (I don't normally eat carbs). I feel like Im nodding off opiates, no shit, ahhhhh. I've been running 5 miles a day for like 4 days now.

 

[Tokey-tokerson]

I dont think you can feel this good off of drugs without being majorly fucked up. Im going to work up to running 10 miles a day so I can sport this nice null peaceful feeling 24 hours a day.

 

[Carl Landrover]

Running is very powerful for my mental well being -- but ONLY if I do it 6 days a week, and I'm running at least 5k a day. I don't get nearly the same effect if I run only 4 days a week. It's the constant daily cardio that is key for me I think.

That's essentially how I feel once I've got several weeks of easy running under my belt again. I like to go a day off for every 10 days or so, too many days off and my mind plays tricks on me. That's more so if the days weren't planned days off.

I dont think you can feel this good off of drugs without being majorly fucked up. Im going to work up to running 10 miles a day so I can sport this nice null peaceful feeling 24 hours a day.

Ah so true. I love the feeling after a good run. I was just thinking today how I don't think I felt this good on opiates, partially because there was that downside to it.



I really hope I can stay healthy, I've been feeling good lately (knock on wood). I'm about 10 weeks away from my first actual target race. Going after the W in a rinky-dink 10k road race.

 

[ruski]

I tend to injure myself when I start running again because I push myself too hard too fast. So far I've been blissfully injury and twinge free, and that makes me wonder if I can start pushing myself a bit harder...? I'd planned to do another 20 min run today, then take my rest day, then do 30 min for the next 6 days, but I'm wondering if maybe I can start throwing some longer runs in next week as well? Like 45 min or an hour? What do you think?

Fairnymph, you could run 6 or even 7 days a week if you wanted to but you need to ensure that you put in some rest days or cross training days, you can run flat out every time you train and long distances but as you know you'll just receive injuries.

When you first start running its important you take it slowly, your cardiovascular will become fitter well before your muscles and bones have adjusted to the rigors of road running.

You need to go through the process of "road hardening" and build up slowly. It can take years, litteraly.

It sounds like you've been running for a bit now and you've got the basic middle distances into your weekly routine.

So perhaps work out a running plan like this:

Monday - Run
Tuesday - Recovery Run + Crosstrain
Wednesday - Speed Session (Fartlek, Interval Training, 5km at 90% race pace etc)
Thursday - Recovery Run + Crosstrain
Friday - Run
Saturday - Long Run
Sunday - Rest/Crosstrain

Your hard runs should be done just that, hard. But your recovery runs should be taken VERY much like a recovery run, don't go out there and run anywhere near your race pace, simply use the K's to keep your legs active and your heart rate consistant. You should be able to hold conversation while doing these runs, if not, you're running too fast.

Whats important is to always warm up and cool down, particually hamstring stretches, calf stretches and glutes.

Your injuries may be related to incorrect shoes, poor gait/biomechanics or worn shoes.

Be sure to replace your sneakers every 600km, even if the upper looks relativley new the sole is often compressed or worn and does not offer proper support or shock absorbtion.

My shoes are hammered after 600km and when I was in marathon training (which I will be again soon) I used to churn through a new pair of shoes every 2 months just about, and they were definatley used past 600km.. probably more like 800-1000 and I just started getting injured.

It's a good idea to find a specialist running shop who can accuratley measure your gait on a treadmill and offer you good shoe advice. Without this analysis, unless you have a very natural neutral gait (ie no over pronation or supination), you'll probably be prescribed the wrong shoes or end up choosing shoes that lack the functionality you need and are just purchased because they look good.

If you're finding you're experiencing injuries and you do have the right shoes (or assume you do) it may be a good idea to visit a sports podiatrist to get your gait analysed professionally. You may need orthotics or perhaps just different shoes.

Just remember, first train for distance then for speed. Take it slowly and you'll be fine. It sounds like you have some pretty good concrete progress there so I'm sure you can start increasing your distances, in particular adding a 15-25km long run on the weekends.

With the sort of training you're entering at the moment you'll be fine to compete in long distance races like half marathons and full marathons.

Don't let anybody tell you that running is bad for your body, you just need to listen to your body to ensure that you don't injure yourself.

The major caveat for most runners is that they just become tollerant to pain and often run through injuries (myself included) just making them worse which leads to other injures. If you experience chronic pain while running, stop, walk/taxi/drive home and see a physiotherapist. Don't risk it, its not worth it.

 

[fairnymph]

Hey ruski, thanks for your input.

Fortunately where I live, a pretty residential/suburban area, I can run on asphalt safely -- in fact I rarely see more than a handful of cars when I'm running. I would love to run on trail, but there isn't one that close to me, and I have to be careful about trail anyway, as I have very weak ankles that sprain easily, and 99% of the time that happens on trail with roots, etc. In any case, at least I'm not running on cement, and I am not that prone to shin splints or other impact related injuries, luckily.

The biggest problem I run into, no pun intended -- I tore my tibialis anterior where it attaches to the top of the foot about 5 years ago and it flares up easily if I'm not careful. It's really annoying, if my shoe is too tight, it also seems to irritate it, but if my shoe is too loose, then I'm prone to twisting my ankles. Otherwise, I sometimes get knee twinges when I'm pushing myself, but nothing major.

I have good shoes and I'm pretty diligent about changing them. I haven't been able to find shoes I LOVE in a few years, but I'm limited because I have very narrow feet, and only Asics are narrow enough for me.

I stretch thoroughly, but I'll be honest, I don't warm up or cool down, unless I'm doing a speed workout of some sort (in which case I always do). If it's just a regular or even a longer or slightly faster run, I run it all at the same pace. Do you think that's really bad?

I'm definitely training for distance at this point. I doubt I will speed up significantly for a few more weeks,and I won't attempt a speed workout until I've been running at least a month. I'm a slow runner by nature, but I have good endurance.

So last week, I ran 20 min on 4 days, 30 on one day, 35 on another. Then I took my break day yesterday, and today I ran 35 min again. I'd like to keep it at or above 30, which is over 3 miles/5k for me, and I should be able to do that. Do you really think I could do say, a 10k sometime this week? I feel like it's too soon for me to be running that distance. Not because I don't think I can do it -- I'm sure if I go slow enough, I can -- but because I'm afraid that running such a distance this early on could be too much.

I was thinking of doing like 30-35 min most days this week, with some 45 min runs in there. Then next week 40-45 min with some 60 min runs. Does that seem too much too soon, or do you think I could/should vary it more starting this week (i.e. do some 30-35 min, some 40-45 min, and some 60 min this week)?

 

[Carl Landrover]

Your longest run of the week should typically be between 20 - 33% of your weekly total mileage.

If you feel it's too early to do a 10k then don't do it. No need to rush to get back into shape. It can be easy to get caught up in it, fearing any kind of fitness loss.

Hmmm. Well when I ran cross country and track, I always lifted, and I haven't really timed myself during times I've been running and not lifting.

In terms of injury, I get injured just as much lifting as I do when I'm not lifting. In terms of endurance, I don't think there is a significant benefit either. Endurance is more of a cardiovascular thing, IMO.

But, I do think that strength training helps speed a bit. It makes sense, because you look at sprinters who are much bulkier than long distance runners, and you need more muscle to give you the force to be faster. Still, I'm sure never lifting but doing a ton of speed workouts would give you more dramatic results.

I personally have to be very careful about strength training my lower body. I believe that it was my crazy calf muscle lifting that in part led to me tearing my anterior tibialis where it attaches on top of my foot. I have very, very strong calves, so I can lift a lot with them, but some of the smaller muscles and ligaments can't take the stress.

I think lifting is an essential part to being a better runner. I NEVER lift with my legs though...doing distance running, track [speed/interval] workouts, hills, they all do the job. If I want to build up leg strength I'd do a variety of drills/plyometric exercises. Doing lunges or power lunges (explode upwards and switch legs to the lunge position), 6 step pushups, bounding, high knees, in place march, all do a great job of building up leg strength...even some explosiveness...without ever picking up any kind of weights.

However, I do try to lift a few times a week, hitting the bench hard one day, shoulders and back another, arms another, and try to do pushups + core exercises almost daily. There are very noticeable results as my strength increases, most notably holding proper running form when I'm tired. When I'm dragging ass or a hill is taking it's toll, with my core strength I'm still able to hold my body upright and my arms are strong enough to keep pumping forward which helps control the leg drive. Although usually shitty and full of effort, in a way it feels kind of good to have your legs be feeling dead and heavy, and you use your upper body to drive you for a few more miles.

You obviously don't want to get too bulky though, so if you put on muscle easy back off on lifting a bit.

 

[ruski]

I stretch thoroughly, but I'll be honest, I don't warm up or cool down, unless I'm doing a speed workout of some sort (in which case I always do). If it's just a regular or even a longer or slightly faster run, I run it all at the same pace. Do you think that's really bad?

It's a good idea to have rest/recovery days dispersed amongst your harder days. Varying distance, pace and course is a good idea too. You'll find most running training plans include 'recovery runs', but they also suggest for the novice (which personally I think it sounds like you're well beyond) that they just rest on the days they aren't training hard.

Warm up/cool down might jsut be simply starting lower and tapering your speed when you are coming to the end of your run, you don't need to do much more than that. Just build up your pace until you're running the pace you're happy to be training at.

I'm definitely training for distance at this point. I doubt I will speed up significantly for a few more weeks,and I won't attempt a speed workout until I've been running at least a month. I'm a slow runner by nature, but I have good endurance.

Once you've got your weekly distances up then start working your speed, but make sure you don't neglect your speed work. Once you become too settled at a slower pace than what you're probably capable of its often hard to speed up later on, but that doesn't mean rush into speed sessions either.

So last week, I ran 20 min on 4 days, 30 on one day, 35 on another. Then I took my break day yesterday, and today I ran 35 min again. I'd like to keep it at or above 30, which is over 3 miles/5k for me, and I should be able to do that. Do you really think I could do say, a 10k sometime this week? I feel like it's too soon for me to be running that distance. Not because I don't think I can do it -- I'm sure if I go slow enough, I can -- but because I'm afraid that running such a distance this early on could be too much.

I was thinking of doing like 30-35 min most days this week, with some 45 min runs in there. Then next week 40-45 min with some 60 min runs. Does that seem too much too soon, or do you think I could/should vary it more starting this week (i.e. do some 30-35 min, some 40-45 min, and some 60 min this week)?

Thoes times seem fine, if we assume you run at 5min/k (which is a decent pace) those are a good mix of distances.

But only you will really know what you're comfortable with and capable of.

Personally I think initially if you haven't been running for a while stick to your shorter distances for another few weeks and once you're fully settled into those move onto bigger targets.

10km is a pretty decent distance, I'd say 100% you'd be fine to do it but whether you feel your body is ready for it is another question and ultimatley that will be left up to you.

Work on quality in your shorter runs for now. Ensure you maintain a good running posture, foot strike and gait so you build good habits for when you start doing longer distances and small errors can end up injurying your body.

I'm training for some triathlons towards the end of this year and all I can say is that I don't think cross training really makes any difference to your running, the only way your running is going to get better is if you continue to run.

Personally I think that some leg strength excercises just to keep those muscles strong is a good idea, it'll prevent injury and it will strengthen your legs in a non-impact fashion. I haven't tried this myself, though.

To give you an idea of what my marathon training normally consists of (keeping in mind that I taper closer to the race date):

Monday - 12km recovery
Tuesday - 12km hard
Wednesday - 10km easy
Thursday - speed session
Friday - 15km recovery
Saturday - Long run (20-35km depending on what week it is)
Sunday - Rest

I normally try to aim for around 80-90km a week, so those distances will probably go up or I'll just run twice on some days.

 

[mariacallas]

I dont think you can feel this good off of drugs without being majorly fucked up. Im going to work up to running 10 miles a day so I can sport this nice null peaceful feeling 24 hours a day.

Isn't that the bestest feeling ever i love it!

 

[fairnymph]

Carl -- I do lift upper body. I need it, since I'm very hypomuscular naturally, and female, so it's not like I have to fear getting bulky. Bulky is essentially impossible for my body. I tend to just get stronger without getting bigger, unless I'm really pushing myself and consuming a ton of protein, and even then I plateau pretty easily in terms of size.

I love going up hills, but I've never done lunges. They look very strenuous in a non-fun way. Maybe I'm too lazy for them. :D

And thanks for the 20-30% tip. Makes sense.

If I end up trying a 10 k this week I'll let you all know.Unfortunately I like, sat on my stupid foot or something and my right ankle is sore/strained. It didn't happen running, I was fine the whole time, either I held my butterfly stretch too long and pushed on that ankle too hard or I don't know. I really hate not knowing the cause of an injury.

 

[kittyinthedark]

God I'm jealous of all you... I ran cross country until I developed a breathing disorder....

 

[lifeisforliving]

^ could you elaborate? what sort?

 

[ruski]

Who's joining me on the road to The Comrades Ultra Marathon in 2009?

Held in my birth city (Johannesburg). My dad and a lot of my family have run it in the mid-late 80's. I'd like to do some ultra distance events prior to this too, has the though of 42.2KM (26miles) or longer tickled anybody elses fancy?

 

[ruski]

BTW, have come across quite a few good running books/manuals that I've read in the last 12 months or so.

The Lore of Running by Timothy Noakes. Basically the runners manual, excellent for those who want to know a bit more about how the human body works, optimum nutrition for running, training schedules, genetic advantages.

Confessions of an All Night Runner by Dean Karnazes. This guy is a lunatic, but very inspiring and entertaining. He holds the record for the longest distance run without stopping (520km/350miles) and his story's are a laugh. Highly recommended.

The Runners Guide to the Meaning of Life by Amby Burfoot. Haven't read this one myself, but highly recommended by a few friends of mine.

 

[list]

I would love to run ultras. They interest me much more than marathons. A few hours running on a road vs a day or so running in the wilderness...not a hard choice for me. This is something I'd like to complete in the next 5 years or so: Cradle Mountain Ultra Read the race reports. Just amazing.....But I'm getting ahead of myself...first must sort out current injuries. Still have not managed to run over 6k since last year!!

 

[list]

http://vlastiksrunforkids.bigblog.com.au/blog.do is also worth a good read for those interested in ultras. This guy's been running an ultra every day since may 26

 

[ruski]

I would love to run ultras. They interest me much more than marathons. A few hours running on a road vs a day or so running in the wilderness...not a hard choice for me. This is something I'd like to complete in the next 5 years or so: Cradle Mountain Ultra Read the race reports. Just amazing.....But I'm getting ahead of myself...first must sort out current injuries. Still have not managed to run over 6k since last year!!

I feel you, I'm struggling with an injury at the moment. I just want to complete my next mara in Oct but I doubt I'll be fit enough at this rate.

 

[ruski]

^ Holy shit, 55km x 100 days makes Karnazes Endurance 50 look like a walk over.