• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Running Nerds Unite

I'm trying to get back into the running scene. Last year, I quit smoking and I started running (again), and I got my 5k time down to around the 15:30 mark My mile was down to around 4:30. Now I can't break 7 mins in the mile :(

I'm definately a middle distance runner. At my peak, I average around 60-70 miles a week.
 
60-70 miles is some full on distance. You must be doing some long distance runs in there or running everyday?

15:30 for 5km is an awesome time, best I've managed is 21:00.
 
ruski said:
60-70 miles is some full on distance. You must be doing some long distance runs in there or running everyday?

15:30 for 5km is an awesome time, best I've managed is 21:00.

I was running about 8 a day with a longrun of about 12 or so once a week. I also ran an easy 6 miler once a week for recovery. Somedays I would run a little longer, and my longrun fluctuated. The longest I did was about 16.

My best 5k time was only 16:01. I feel like during the best shape of my life, I didn't race. I'm only guessing I was around 15:30.
 
I'm a firm beliver in quality not quantity as the latter tends to move towards over training, did you ever feel that 4 quality days were better than 7 days training?

Weren't you always training on tired legs?
 
Alas, I cannot run any longer. From age 15-38 I ran almost every day ( average of 8-10km). I never did a marathon, but ran with various clubs and groups over the years. My longest run - which I did several times - was 29 miles. Towards the end I was doing ~15-20km once a week, so I probably could have done a 1/2 marathon at least. I always did well in minor competition, but never really had the drive for the big league. Some of the friends I ran with early in life have gone on to be superb athletes, one guy running his best marathon time in his late 30s and another now in his late 40s doing really well at an international level.

The reason I stopped? Well, it has to do with the addiction of running. Living in such a beautiful place, where the rainforest touches the ocean, I preferred to run through the woods rather than on the road. The trouble with that is there are lots of tree roots growing across the tracks, so it required constant navigation.

Back then, nothing could keep me from running, and that's where the problem lay. I repeatedly twisted my left ankle - usually on tree roots -and the resulting tendinitis led to a permanently swollen achilles tendon, which I wouldn't/ couldn't let heal before running again. Silly, I know, but I figured that because some days were better than others that it would heal in time.

Eventually it affected the sciatic nerve, which got so bad that on more than one occasion, far from home, I completely lost the use of my left leg. I literally had to lift my leg with my arms to get it to move and lost all sensation in the leg for several hours. It gradually got worse, so I shortened the distance in a last ditch effort to compensate. But it was too late. It became so serious that the leg would start to go numb within the first few km's. I was also doing a lot of stretching (advanced Tai Chi) but nothing would fix it. I turned to a friend who was in remedial medicine and he had some success with acupuncture, but it was always only a temporary fix.

Now some 10 years later, even with daily stretching I still cannot run. My left tendon is approximately twice the size of my right and a ~50cm section has no stretch at all. If I stretch too far, I can feel the tendon tearing on the calcaneus. Even walking affects it and my achilles swells badly.

Ruski, you mentioned supination. My feet are flat and are naturally supinated, but I've never had probs with knees or ITB, and at my peak could do 12-15 single leg squats on each leg without effort, although my right leg was always a bit stronger. While I always tried to buy the correct supinator compensating shoes, it wasn't always possible with a size 14 foot. I've always wondered if the wrong shoes could have affected my condition.

Sorry about the long rant, but it's hard to convince non-runners just how much I miss it. I'm sadly resigned to the fact that I will never run again. I'd thought about surgery, although my friend and another doc both indicated it's probably even beyond that. I do miss it though, and frequently dream of running. For me it was a far worse addiction than any drug could ever be :(
 
I hear you PD. I've already hurt myself worse because I've run through injury, rather than stopping at the 12km mark on a half marathon race I ran the last 10K's in severe pain. It's an addiction alright, but I'll take heed from your story: Recover first, run later.

Yeah I get depressed a little and run down but if I was never able to run again that would make matters far worse for me.

Perhaps correct shoes, orthotics and the like could've helped you in the long term.. but I thought flat feet caused pronation (rolling in of the ankle) not supination (rolling out/clunk foot)? Generally a high arch will cause supination. Did you have your condition diagnosed by a podiatrist?

The reason I query is because I'm also flat footed and without orthotics pronate badly.

It's a shame you're perm injured now, running your first marathon is definatley an experience. Comparable to your first pill, sounds odd but the feeling of exhiliration, accomplishment and week long high is quite similiar. The difference with running is that you never seem to lose that magic and its not neurologically determental to you :)

PD you should look at getting a road bike or MTB (given the country you seem to live near), I've been cross trainign with swimming and cycling and the latter is almost as enjoyable as running .. but nothing is quite as pure as your legs and the road.
 
PD that's such a shame you can't run anymore. Have you seen a sports doc about this? There must be something that can be done
 
Ruski, I understand what you're saying re pronation, however, I have somewhat bandy legs which cause weight to be placed over the outer part of my feet. My feet therefore have quite a splayed area lateral to the ankle.

I trained at high school under a guy named Ray Tricker, now an associate professor at Oregon State Uni. He was an incredible inspiration, and the person responsible for getting me interested in long distance ( I was originally a quite fast 1500m runner). Later, Ray introduced me to Arthur Lydiard who was regarded as being one of the finest running coaches ever. He was the first to point out my foot problems and designed a training program that worked different leg muscles which he thought might help to compensate. He recommended a particular type of Nike shoes, shoes which latest over 5 years of everyday training. Sadly, Arthur passed away in 2004. He was such an amazing guy, and always worked on a one to one basis with everyone he trained. I was very lucky as a school boy to have such interest in me, especially when I was a chemistry geek, known for shall we say, some of the more "Historical" antics at the school.

list, this thread has me thinking it might be worthwhile checking out another sports doc about this.

In hindsight (which is easy) I'd say heed all warnings signs if injury occurs. Whether endorphins are responsible or not, something from distance running produces a tolerance to pain, so it's easy at first to simply push on.

Great thread BTW
 
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Back on the road finally! Hopefully ITB stretching has paid off. Ran 3km without pain on Saturday (sounds rediculous, but I had trouble walking before). Legs are mega stiff from horse riding + dancing @ a night out on Saturday but hope to accomplish another 3km tonight without incident.

Can I just say.. jesus is it cold at the moment! 7am training is looking more daunting by the second.
 
Yo Ruski,

coolrunning is an excellent site. I think I'll order some of their running tops.
I found links to another gps/heart rate monitor combo, specifically the TIMEX Bodylink 59551. Any idea at all how these kind of products compare?

On a personal note, I'm finally recovering from 12 months of living hell. I've had severe ulna nerve damage from my programming job (probably brought on by five days in a row of 17 hours while in Singapore) and am finally seeing a light. This is the third forum post I'm making, and the fifth thing I have been able to do on a computer in a year. I was a micro level of damage away from career ending surgery.
In that time I've given up all drugs such as e (no point having a euphoric experience if the next day you realise you will be thinking about suicide again), and fighting absolute agony/depression.
I've just started being happy and becoming well again.
A combination of the decrease in chronic pain, seeing a psychiatrist to help cope, and a growing sense of my self have combined to fill me with a new sense of belief in my life.

Just thought I'd add this in because it's off topic, but running nerds really covers quite a lot of emotional ground for me (running is the only upper body activity I've been allowed to follow in the past six months, and nothing before that).

I'm now almost fully back at work (purely managerial, though, no desk computer work), and feel I am mentally recovering at last.

Finally beginning to start dreaming about a really nice night with my wife and closest friends on a nice e trip ( not that I ever took it much, four times a year for the past two in which I discovered e at the ripe old age of 28 ).

Phew, well I think it was a positive even to type that, even if I bore you all by having to read it :).
 
I personally feel the Timex products don't match the features, functionality, durability and sexyness of the Garmin stuff. Garmin are GPS specialists, its what they do in the market place. The new Garmin Forerunner 305 is a product that the Bodylink just can't compare to in terms of features, GPS coverage, software support and runner support! If its any testament that the Garmin is the way to go it's the fact that anybody using a GPS in any of the races I've run in are almost always using a Garmin product.. some even use their handheld colour GPS.

As for your ulna nerve damage. Was it from typing/coding too much? I'm in a Syseng/neteng role but I don't think I bang on a keyboard for 17 hours straight at any stage.. however, there is a little ;) Were you predisposed to this conditions or would anybody have suffered if they worked that hard and fast?

Good to hear you're back on the road to recovery. I've got a similiar story.. one of pain and recovery. Skip to the part about boy meets girl, girl breaks up with boy, boy takes up running while spiraling into a bout of post-relationship melancholy/depression and then continues it because he's got a new love in his life.. sport. Sure its not physical debilitating damage to my body, but it seems every runner has their own story as to why they started running.

Running really does save lives :)

I always get asked why I run or why I want to run ultra distance events. It's totally baffling to non-runners as why you want to go to the effort.

Theres a divine clarity, comfort, relaxation, reflection and accomplishment that is difficult to achieve in any other state of mind. When you cross that 42.2km mark of your first race, theres nothing quite like it.

PS. Churned out 3.5km @ 4min per/k yday. My legs are coming back.. woot!
 
...Timex products don't match the features, functionality, durability and sexyness of the Garmin stuff. Garmin are GPS specialists, its what they do in the market place. The new Garmin Forerunner 305 is a product that the Bodylink just can't compare to in terms of features, GPS coverage, software support and runner support! If its any testament that the Garmin is the way to go it's the fact that anybody using a GPS in any of the races I've run in are almost always using a Garmin product.. some even use their handheld colour GPS.
Wow, thanks for detailed and informative response. Okay, I'll forget the Timex. Sorry to bug you further ... but what's $200 better in the Forerunner 302, over the 301? Or perhaps you don't know, having the 301?

As for your ulna nerve damage. Was it from typing/coding too much? I'm in a Syseng/neteng role but I don't think I bang on a keyboard for 17 hours straight at any stage.. however, there is a little Were you predisposed to this conditions or would anybody have suffered if they worked that hard and fast?
From typing/coding too much for sure. 100% correlation. Plus a poorly set-up desk (chair not high enough), poor posture, and no breaks at all (3-4 hours straight at the keyboard without so much as a five minute pause, and then finally only to go the the toilet or caffeinate up). You sound like you're in a much safer position, but none-the-less, if you ever feel sore in the wrists/elbows/fingers ... STOP! Stop just for ten minutes, and if pain/tingling continues stop for the rest of the day, whatever the short term consequences. If it happens again, see a doctor, who may refer you to a specialist. As a general rule take a five minute stretch break every 20-30 mins, follow a few easy stretches (can outline some if you're interested), set-up your desk/seat/monitor correctly, and use a decent mouse/keyboard. I can give info on any of these aspects if you're interested.
I may well be pre-disposed ... some people have appalling posture yet never suffer a problem. Hyperactive high achievers are astoundingly represented in these sorts of RSI cases, and I'm both of these things. Pretty much anyone would suffer from continued 17 hour stints, although some people far less than me, no doubt ... and then some would probably be crippled forever now. I think about that, and count only a year and half as a blessing.

Sure its not physical debilitating damage to my body, but it seems every runner has their own story as to why they started running.
Absolutely, and just because it's not physical debilitation doesn't make it any less serious. The emotional/mental aspects have been far harder for me to deal with than the physical. It all blends together, mind you, so I don't know where the nerve endings begin and the emotions take over.
Running is a fabulous calming empowering thing for me, and it certainly does save lives. I run with one of my best friends every week, and I cherish those moments.

I always get asked why I run or why I want to run ultra distance events. It's totally baffling to non-runners as why you want to go to the effort.
Amen to that. People ask me why I run if I'm not good enough to "win". They think it's peculiar when I'm happy that I've beaten my own times/distances, when they are so inferior to Steve Moneghetti marathon times, etc. *shrug*. Oh well, I don't mind.

Theres a divine clarity, comfort, relaxation, reflection and accomplishment that is difficult to achieve in any other state of mind. When you cross that 42.2km mark of your first race, theres nothing quite like it.
Only gone the full distance once, but half marathons 3-4 times a week, and I think you're spot on with everything in that depth packed sentence.

PS. Churned out 3.5km @ 4min per/k yday. My legs are coming back.. woot!
Congrats!
 
You're right, having not owned the 305 over the 301 I can't tell you first hand. But I do like my toys...

I know this:

- If you have a bike, get one. It has a speed/cadence sensor (sold seperatley) that can replace your bike computer. I wouldn't have had to shell another $160-200 for a Cateye 300DW if I had the opportunity to purchase the 305.

- The GPS antenna is far superior. My unit drops out occasionally and if you've rounded a corner/crossed a park and it picks up the next GPS point in a odd position you can gain/lose distance.

- The screen is a whole lot better and the watch itself doesn't look so chunky.

If you can afford it, get it. If you can't justify the extra $200 then just get the 301. Basically they both rock, if it was me I'd prolly get the 305 if I had the choice all over again just because I like having the latest :) Mmmm shiny.
 
Ruski, and anyone else using Garmin Forerunners>> I'm more interested in the GPS than the HRM. Are the GPS features in the newer model Forerunners better than the older ones? It seems the newer ones all come with the HRM and I'm not too fussed about that. Would an earlier forerunner be as good as using a more recent one without the HRM?
 
I had my first real running injury about 8 weeks ago. I tore a little of my tibia/fibula ligament when I slipped on a rock, in the middle of a forest of course with 2km of agonizing stumbling back to the car...

Given what I just read about PD's injury that turned into something more permanent I was wondering what all you BL runners would recommend as the length of time I should recover for if I hurt that area again?

I started running on it 3 weeks after the injury, and even after a run today it still feels "weak" but there is no pain.

Do leg strenth exercises help protect against this sort of injury? Or once the tendon sheath is broken it never heals 100% again? should I use a tensor bandage on long runs for the next few months? I'd hate to ever give up running...
 
So to all you runners...

I've been running about 3/4 a mile a day on hard concrete, and well, I'm already predisposed to arthritis, especially in the knees and on some days I can feel that really starting to take it's toll on my knees...

any tips to reduce the stress? I know running over grass is better as it gives more cushion, and I could probably use a better pair of sneaks, but anything else that will help? Cause i'm loving the results I'm getting out of running (ok, so it's not all running yet...I'm rediculously out of shape, and I'm not looking to be able to run for a marathon, I'm running to tone down and get back into shape, and until I get my liscense and can drive someplace to run, I'm kinda stuck doing laps around my neighborhood. So I've got another five months of running on concrete...and I really don't want to do anything to my knees as they crack enough as is, and I really don't want to end up like my mom in need of a double knee replacement before I'm 60.
 
^
Omega-3fatty acids: specifically DHA and EPA to help reduce inflammation (and of coruse has a number of other good benefits).
 
The road will probably be softer than the sidewalk, just watch out for cars.

You might be able to run over lawns or are there any gravel roads around?

Do you have a track near you or your local high school? Just run on the grass on the infield next to Lane 1.


After my last post my running sort of went south, which continues the longstanding trend of when I talk about how running is going well, it starts to go bad or not go at all. So lets just say that running exists and I am capable of accepting it. Ha, I have no idea.
 
list said:
Ruski, and anyone else using Garmin Forerunners>> I'm more interested in the GPS than the HRM. Are the GPS features in the newer model Forerunners better than the older ones? It seems the newer ones all come with the HRM and I'm not too fussed about that. Would an earlier forerunner be as good as using a more recent one without the HRM?

You'd probably be ok with the 201 if you didn't want the HRM functions, but to be honest the 301's have come down in price enough because the 305 has been released that the extra functionalty in the 301 is worth the now small price differnece (plus the 201 is frigging old).

The 301 also has a better GPS reciever, USB interface to your PC for data logging (which I think is a major deficit to the 201 model) and various other features you can grab a list of from the garmin website (www.garmin.com). Might even be worth getting the Forerunner 205 which seems to be better than the 301 (possibly as good as the 301 minus the HRM which I think is pretty much what it is). Plus it looks a whole lot less dated.

Furthermore, the GPS reception in the 201 sucks. It'll frustrate the hell out of you.
 
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lifeisforliving said:
I had my first real running injury about 8 weeks ago. I tore a little of my tibia/fibula ligament when I slipped on a rock, in the middle of a forest of course with 2km of agonizing stumbling back to the car...

Given what I just read about PD's injury that turned into something more permanent I was wondering what all you BL runners would recommend as the length of time I should recover for if I hurt that area again?

I started running on it 3 weeks after the injury, and even after a run today it still feels "weak" but there is no pain.

Do leg strenth exercises help protect against this sort of injury? Or once the tendon sheath is broken it never heals 100% again? should I use a tensor bandage on long runs for the next few months? I'd hate to ever give up running...

I'd personally rest as much as you can. The desire is to keep on running but from experience if it doesn't feel right it means your body isn't ready to continue going.

You can always get your fitness back quickly later on (I find this fact incredibly hard to accept, so much so I get a little depressed and demotivated when I can't run).

Stick to light, shorter runs initially but don't go back into heavy training. I personally haven't tried leg muscle excercises other than stretching and restiance stuff like squats so I can give you exact advice on that, but it'd be worth speaking to a PT or a physio regarding that because it would make sense that balancing the strength in your legs where the injury occured would in effect make you less prone to reinjury, but just make sure you've full recovered first.

Check out www.coolrunning.com.au, theres probably quite a few runners on there with similiar injuries that can offer you specific advice including a few resident physio's that could give you a heads up.

I'd love to hear if you have success with a program like this, because I need to get into some strength gaining excercises.. not just to balance my leg muscles and develop some 'power' in my legs other than just training fast/slow fibres.

I know this slightly veers from your question, but I'd like to ask the question of all runners here if lower body/leg strength excercises do actually help your speed, endurance and resistance to muscle injury?
 
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