Running Nerds Unite

[ruski]

So to all you runners...

I've been running about 3/4 a mile a day on hard concrete, and well, I'm already predisposed to arthritis, especially in the knees and on some days I can feel that really starting to take it's toll on my knees...

any tips to reduce the stress? I know running over grass is better as it gives more cushion, and I could probably use a better pair of sneaks, but anything else that will help? Cause i'm loving the results I'm getting out of running (ok, so it's not all running yet...I'm rediculously out of shape, and I'm not looking to be able to run for a marathon, I'm running to tone down and get back into shape, and until I get my liscense and can drive someplace to run, I'm kinda stuck doing laps around my neighborhood. So I've got another five months of running on concrete...and I really don't want to do anything to my knees as they crack enough as is, and I really don't want to end up like my mom in need of a double knee replacement before I'm 60.

Mate, start slow and go to a podiatrist NOW. He needs to recommend what kind of shoes you need by measuring your gait on a treadmill with possible correction by orthotics.

There's specialist running stores that will do the same thing: offer gait measurement and shoe advice (www.activefeet.com.au) but personally I'd make sure the person serving you was a podiatrist or has worked with runners specifically so they can accuratley measure you and refer you to a podiatrist if you need further correction.

It's very important to get your biomechanics worked out now and its even more important to not skimp on the cost of doing this. At some stage, with distance and time, you will either get injured or make your current condition worse.

If you're predisposed to arthritis even the best shoes may not prevent this condition from becoming a problem for you but if you want to run a marathon 99% of them are run on hard surfaces ie. concrete. So it's best to train on a surface that you'll be racing on. Avoid running on the road itself because its offen cambered which means you'll have one "short" leg and one "long" leg which can aggrevate your arthritis and possibly cause ITBFS which I'm sure you don't want as a added problem to your running. If you must, run in the centre of the road so you gain a neutral balance in your stride.

The fact of the matter is that running is hard on your body. You need to start slow and harden your muscles and bones to the pounding you're going to give them over time. My personal suggestion (with no medical basis other than experience) is to start slow and aim for smaller races and distances first. It could take you a good 18-24 months before your body is ready to take the impact from a full marathon race or long distance race.

I'd immediatley see a phyiso, osteopath and podiatrist to get your bones, gait and training advice sorted. Just, please, make sure they care about your running as much as you do.

You'll probably be predisposed to stress fratures in your tibia and other bones in your legs if you've got an arthritic condition which can pretty much put you on a long road to recovery if you don't pay special attenton to your known conditions.

As mentioned in a previous post in this thread, I'm not sure what effect muscle strenghtening will have on helping you reach your marathon goal (I think it will be very beneficial) but there are probably particular types of excercises that you'll need to work with a personal trainer (who is a runner specialist) or a running physio so you can hit that 26.2 mile (42.2km) mark one day.

Theres nothing stopping you as long as you handle your training and prep right. Patience and presistance will be your friends.

 

[ruski]

The road will probably be softer than the sidewalk, just watch out for cars.

You might be able to run over lawns or are there any gravel roads around?

Do you have a track near you or your local high school? Just run on the grass on the infield next to Lane 1.


After my last post my running sort of went south, which continues the longstanding trend of when I talk about how running is going well, it starts to go bad or not go at all. So lets just say that running exists and I am capable of accepting it. Ha, I have no idea.

You might be able to run over lawns or are there any gravel roads around?

I personally don't recommend this as a daily training surface including grass. Both are unpredictable and undualating and your foot strike isn't always uniform nor the same with every stride. It can do more damage than good, I think it's better to harden your body slowly on an even surface.

Track running is just as bad, if you're a long distance runner and do many repeats in the same direction on a track predisposed conditions such as ITBFS and common knee injuries can rear their ugly head. A good way to avoid this is to ensure you alternate rotations each lap.

 

[ruski]

^
Omega-3fatty acids: specifically DHA and EPA to help reduce inflammation (and of coruse has a number of other good benefits).

And glucosamine supplements!

 

[freejroll]

I'm a firm beliver in quality not quantity as the latter tends to move towards over training, did you ever feel that 4 quality days were better than 7 days training?

Weren't you always training on tired legs?

Sorry I didn't see this. I'll respond later tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[freejroll]

or in the afternoon...

I'm a firm beliver in quality not quantity as the latter tends to move towards over training, did you ever feel that 4 quality days were better than 7 days training?

Weren't you always training on tired legs?

Sorry about this (being late). 60 miles a week is not really much of anything. I am definately a firm believer in quality as well. I don't feel like my runs were much quantity.

People overtrain running 120 miles a week. 60 miles a week isn't much... and I didn't just jump into 60 miles a week. I definately built my self up. I just didnt' feel like I needed to run more than 70 a week, not even during a base building phase.

My legs were never tired. If they were, I would rest them. I definately am a runner who listened to his body. I was never injured. I never overtrained. Ehhh, I have a lot of thoughts about overtraining anyway. It seems to me to be more of a CNS thing, so quality runs can do just as much as quantity. Too much quality runs would be more detrimental, it would seem.

Further, the fastest runners run 7 days a week, not 4. This is not to say that I ran hard every day. My routines varied greatly. In my opinion, recovery runs are much much better than not running at all.

 

[lifeisforliving]

And glucosamine supplements!

I thought there was a new article that concluded that glucosamine supplements had little or no effect on joint function over time? Do you know of any articles that say glucosamine is good for runners in otherwise good health?

(oh yeah, and what foods have a naturally high amount of it?

 

[ruski]

I thought there was a new article that concluded that glucosamine supplements had little or no effect on joint function over time? Do you know of any articles that say glucosamine is good for runners in otherwise good health?

(oh yeah, and what foods have a naturally high amount of it?

To be honest, I've been only recommended it based on first hand information from other people.

If you have any articles regarding the topic please post them!

 

[Carl Landrover]

I personally don't recommend this as a daily training surface including grass. Both are unpredictable and undualating and your foot strike isn't always uniform nor the same with every stride. It can do more damage than good, I think it's better to harden your body slowly on an even surface.

Track running is just as bad, if you're a long distance runner and do many repeats in the same direction on a track predisposed conditions such as ITBFS and common knee injuries can rear their ugly head. A good way to avoid this is to ensure you alternate rotations each lap.

If you know the area or was running on a well manicured field (maybe a golf course for example) it's basically even and you'd still adjust the knee to the action/force from running.

You're right about track running, but you can always just run the same number of laps the other way to balance things out. The poster who posed the question would have been running 3-4 laps around the track; not really a big a deal to worry about alternating laps.


Any of you guys have experience with orthotics? I've just got to make an appointment to pick mine up, but they're all ready and made.

 

[ruski]

I've got orthotics for running only. When I first got them I used to walk with them in but my podiatrist thinks that my foot strike is over corrected when walking with them so better to stick to running.

Took about 3-4 weeks to wear them in before they stopped hurting my arches post running. See what your podiatrist says, each doctor will recommend a different wear in structure. It'll really be up to you as to how much you want to work them in with your running though.

I use mine all the time (while running).. but that took a good 2 months of running before I was comfortable.

 

[list]

Any of you guys have experience with orthotics? I've just got to make an appointment to pick mine up, but they're all ready and made.

My pod said to get used to them by wearing them around the house. He said to be able to wear them comfortably for a whole day before running in them. This seems to be the general advice...I didn't wait this long, I ran straight away in them without much hassle. They were a little awkward at first and only ran shorter distances but after a couple of days I got used to them.

 

[lifeisforliving]

To be honest, I've been only recommended it based on first hand information from other people.

If you have any articles regarding the topic please post them!

The original article I read was in the New England Journal of Medicine, but I don't have access to the article to link to it. The article below is another study that found, IMHO, minimal at best improvement - compared to placebo!

GLUCOSAMINE AND CHONDROITIN SULFATE MAY BE USEFUL FOR PATIENTS WITH MODERATE TO SEVERE PAIN FROM KNEE OSTEOARTHRITIS

Here is an opinion piece on the article that was in the NEJM:

More on Glucosamine

I'd be interested if anybody has information on the glucosamine+chondroitin combo as a preventative measure for long-distance runners... anybody?

 

[SilverFeniks]

I run a few miles several times a week ... I'm fortunate to live amongst a ton of steep hills and some nice scenery; I require both on my runs.

Unfortunately I can't go more than like three times a week, its far too painful ... can barely walk the rest of the evening ... but nothing clears my mind and makes me feel healthier and free.

 

[mindbodysOul]

I run a few miles several times a week ... I'm fortunate to live amongst a ton of steep hills and some nice scenery; I require both on my runs.

This is the main reason i've never liked running outside, i live in a shitty neighbourhood and its all flat, no hills or nice parkland nearby. I would love to run through park trails but i dont know of any around near where i live!

But! This thread has inspired me. I'm going to stop with the excuses and get my butt off the treadmill and outside (in the cold: damn winter, why didnt this thread come around in summer! )

I have question to ask. I love to run with music, i cant run without it. Whenever i've gone for a jog outside my earphones have always fallen out. I was wondering whats the best headset to buy? I've heard the set that goes around the back of the head/neck is the best for jogging. Anyone got any advice and/or experience with these?

I would really like to aim for a marathon at the end of the year. Currently i run about 5.5min/km on the tready, i could probably go better but i've never tried, thats just my usual pace over 5-8km. So any training tips or advice with running style in the lead up to events would be cool.

Thanks!

 

[Carl Landrover]

But! This thread has inspired me. I'm going to stop with the excuses and get my butt off the treadmill and outside (in the cold: damn winter, why didnt this thread come around in summer! )

Sorry to go off-topic, but I've always been kind of confused by this. You guys down on the southern hemisphere call the June through September months winter? Like brrr cold July? Do you call any groups of months 'spring' or 'fall' and if so when do they occur?

Sincerely,
Confused American

 

[mindbodysOul]

Summer = December, January, February
Autumn(you guys call it fall) = March, April, May
Winter = June, July, August
Spring = September, October, November

Pretty simple

 

[Worrgames]

I run quite a bit... Have had a bad case or runners knee for the past half a year or so

Technical name is Petela-Femoral Syndrome (Horribly spelled).

 

[ruski]

This is the main reason i've never liked running outside, i live in a shitty neighbourhood and its all flat, no hills or nice parkland nearby. I would love to run through park trails but i dont know of any around near where i live!

But! This thread has inspired me. I'm going to stop with the excuses and get my butt off the treadmill and outside (in the cold: damn winter, why didnt this thread come around in summer! )

I have question to ask. I love to run with music, i cant run without it. Whenever i've gone for a jog outside my earphones have always fallen out. I was wondering whats the best headset to buy? I've heard the set that goes around the back of the head/neck is the best for jogging. Anyone got any advice and/or experience with these?

I would really like to aim for a marathon at the end of the year. Currently i run about 5.5min/km on the tready, i could probably go better but i've never tried, thats just my usual pace over 5-8km. So any training tips or advice with running style in the lead up to events would be cool.

Thanks!

Get a pair of these for running, they definatley won't fall out.

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er6i.aspx - Find them on Ebay or get them direct from Etymotic. Should be around AU$140-160 delivered from Ebay.

Shure also make similiar 'in your ear' style headphones. http://www.shure.com/PersonalAudio/Products/Earphones/index.htm -- Check out the lower end ones on Ebay, might be able to find some a fair bit cheaper than the Etymotics.

I used to have a pair of Beyerdynamics that were great for jogging but eventually they got all borked up from sweating, I think the Shure's/Etymotic's design is less prone to stuffing up like that because of the rubber ear pieces. (http://www.headphones.com.au/prod_one.php?productID=175#top)

You can probably check out that site to see what other 'around the head' style headphones there are you could use for running, but I feel the sound isolating in your ear style should be more than sweet (and a good replacement for the OEM style headphones that come with most Mp3 players).

5.5min/k pace isn't too bad at all. That's only slightly slower than I ran the Canberra Marathon (5.24min/k).

But you'll want to increase your K's. If you've got a good base fitness a 12-16 week marathon program would probably see you through.

Try with 4-5 training sessions a week. But there are plenty of good Marathon programs on the net, in particular, www.coolrunning.com.au and www.coolrunning.com.

They mainly focus around 1 speed session, 1 long run and 2-3 runs of various distances with recovery runs inbetween/cross training.

IMO, if you're exclusivley running and you don't cross train you could probably train 6 times a week if you wanted, with recovery runs posted after your hard training days.

You'll find most training programs will taper 'up' increasing the distance over time and then taper 'down' decreasing the distance before your event, which is precisley what you want to do, you don't want to be running on tired legs! But what is best for you will come from experimentation and training. I suggest doing some fun runs first 8-15km and then try for a half marathon before you go the whole hog, just to get some race experience and also test your body a bit.

Winter is no excuse, now get cracking Best time to train is winter, keeps your body cool and your performance high, you just need to find the motivation. Plus running in the cold + pelting rain is a challenging experience hehe.

 

[mindbodysOul]

^^ Thanks so much for that info, legend! Do you have a pair of those first earphones you mentioned? I'm just a bit concerned still if they might fall out during vigerous workouts? They look like they push right into your ear, does it make your ears any more prone to noise damage?

And that website is awesome thanx! Except i went to the beginners training schedule for 10km and i'm totally lost, cant understand it much! I need to have a proper look later on when i can sit down properly and read through it to decipher the jargon! Hehehehe

 

[ruski]

I don't have a pair, but my housemate does (I've ordered a pair but they got lost in the mail, am chasing it up with some jerkoff on Ebay).

Etymotic's company is all about harm reduction in terms of hearing loss. The in your ear style headphones can make you more prone to hearing damage if you LISTEN TO THEM LOUD. But because they are sound isolating, the requirement for higher volumer is diminished (as a lot of outside noise becomes imperceptible with them inserted) and you shouldn't need them cranked around the 100dB mark like normal headphones.

I was convinced enough they weren't going to fall out during a workout, but I guess if you were still worried around the head style would still be the way to go.

 

[ruski]

I jog around the polo field which is the size of ten football fields...lol....pretty big I guess! I do 2-3 rounds at most but I want to get up to at least five rounds. Wonder how long that is (I suck at distance measurement!)

I cheat, I have a GPS