Roadside Drug Testing....

[Joop]

Re: December is here - where is my free police-issue chewing gum?

I would assume there would be some publicity, no matter how small, when the police decided to start using this, and that a specific party or event would be targetted.

Check tomorrow's age, or the article I just posted up
Apparently they'll begin in less then three weeks,

Will be interesting to see how this pans out...

[edit] Event details

 

[dirtyb_au]

I know a lot of the issues surrounding this have been discussed and re-hashed many times over, so I'm not going to go into that, but I will point out what seems to be a (typical) inconsistency and skirting around any hard statistics:

Of the 333 people killed on Victoria's roads in 2003, 59 are believed to have had drugs in their system, compared with 54 whose blood-alcohol content was above .05.

I'm willing to bet that out of the 59 with drugs in their system, close to 54 had alcohol as well.

Police figures indicate that in two of the past three years, more people have been killed on the roads with illegal drugs in their system than those killed with a blood-alcohol reading above .05.

Yes, but what about drugs _and_ alcohol? Also, which drugs, how much? What sort of work is being done to find out what is actually dangerous ?

I don't support dangerous driving in the slightest - I'm strongly, strongly against it, but I also don't support badly designed/thought-out laws that could potentially get more people hurt, rather than less.

The law and world in general needs more useful, factual information on drugs, and their use - not more blanket, under-the-carpet prohibition that helps nobody.

Edit/Addition: On further reading of some previous threads, it appears that the move in Victoria at least may have some quantative aspect to it, in that they're really after people who are under the influence "right now", which I wholly support (and is in contrast with some of the original reports on this).

My overall statement still stands though Does anyone know if specific drug/accident specific data is publically available?

 

[hoptis]

Almost as if to back up the introduction of testing, here comes a timely survey brought to you by AAMI.

Drug-driving high among young: study
By Dan Silkstone
Transport Reporter
November 30, 2004

One in four young Australian men have driven a car while under the influence of illegal drugs.

And young drivers are far less aware than their older counterparts of the dangers of driving after using narcotics.

The findings are part of the picture of young drivers in the annual AAMI Young Drivers Index survey.

The index is compiled from insurance claims and interviews with 1880 drivers of all ages.

Its findings were released a day after it emerged police would begin random drug testing of motorists before Christmas. The saliva tests are aimed at detecting drugs such as methamphetamines and cannabis.

According to the survey, a quarter of male drivers under 25 admitted driving while on drugs. Among young women, the figure was just 8 per cent.

The index also found that 92 per cent of motorists supported random drug testing.

Professor Nick Crofts, from drug and alcohol research group Turning Point, said the results were disturbing but more work was needed to find the incidence of driving while influenced by drugs.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

"If you get in a car after drinking alcohol and taking drugs, like marijuana, the chance of being involved in a fatal accident is multiplied," he said. "You become, effectively, an accident waiting to happen."

Professor Crofts said one of the most worrying aspects was that people who admitted to driving while on drugs were more likely to have other dangerous driving habits.

Among those who admitted driving while on drugs, 71 per cent said they would also drive with a blood-alcohol level greater than .05, and 69 per cent said they used their mobile telephone while driving. Of that group, 44 per cent admitted to text messaging while driving.

Professor Crofts said the survey showed more education was needed to warn younger drivers of the risks of driving while on drugs.

It also showed that 16 per cent of young drivers believed driving after taking drugs was less dangerous than drink-driving.

This compared with 8 per cent of the population when asked the same question.

"There is no doubt that changing attitudes through public education programs and driver training will save lives in the long run," Professor Crofts said.

The survey found that young drivers were far more likely to be victims of violence on the road and were also more likely to speed.

From The Age

 

[Joop]

Looks like December 13th is the date and not the 11th like everyone suspected...

Random drug-driving tests a first
November 30, 2004

VICTORIAN motorists will be the first in the world to be subjected to random roadside saliva testing for illegal drugs.

The tests, which will start on December 13, detect cannabis and methamphetamine-based drugs.

Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said motorists pulled over for a drug test would be required to place a small absorbent pad on their tongues for a few seconds.

They would then be required to wait about five minutes before their test results were known.

Mr Haermeyer said police would target those in the long-haul trucking industry and people who had attended dance parties.

"Drug driving can kill," Mr Haermeyer said.

"Last year, a total of 31 per cent of motorists killed in Victoria tested positive to drugs other than alcohol."

AAP

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11542958%5E1702,00.html

 

[DeMenTia02]

So how long until private bus services start profitting highly from these dance events ? ..

heh

 

[jammeth]

I am all for reducing the road toll, but how can they bring in more driving restrictions - with a public transport system that leaves half of melbourne with not many ways of getting home after 1.00 at night! I honestly reackon if they spent some of that driving offences revenue on a decent 24 hr pubic tranny system the roadtoll would be halved.

 

[vegetus]

AAAAAARGH!!!! I just saw the ten news preview... They're doing a story on it tonight!! Looks like everyone has to behave now... not that we werent before of course...

 

[hoptis]

Drugs bus targets truckies, ravers
By Marc Moncrief
November 30, 2004 - 1:25PM

Victoria Police today unveiled a new road drug testing bus in a world-first pilot project demonstrating zero tolerance for drug drivers.

State Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said the bus would target groups known to have high rates of drug usage such as truck drivers and ravers.

The bus, a converted booze bus that will begin its 12-month pilot period on December 13, will carry equipment to test for methamphetamines and delta-9 THC, the psychoactive compound in cannabis.

Penalties will include three demerit points and $307 fine for a first offence or, if the matter goes to court, a maximum fine of $614 and three-months licence cancellation.

Subsequent offences would see drivers lose their licence for 6 months, with fines up to $1227.

The tests will be administered at random in conjunction with current alcohol tests.

Mr Haermeyer said motorists pulled over for a drug test would be required to place a small absorbent pad on their tongues for a few seconds.

They would then be required to wait about five minutes before their test results were known.

If the presence of drugs was indicated, police would conduct a second, more accurate test that would be used as evidence.

"Drug driving can kill," Mr Haermeyer said.

"Last year, a total of 31 per cent of motorists killed in Victoria tested positive to drugs other than alcohol."

"These drug buses are going to weed those people out."

The tests had undergone reliability testing at Swinburne University and the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, Mr Haermeyer said.

"The devices are accurate and we have the final back-up of full laboratory testing by an accredited analyst before any prosecution can proceed.

"The testing agencies have confirmed that the roadside saliva tests will not detect the presence of prescription drugs or common over-the-counter medications."

Assistant Commissioner (Traffic and Support) Bob Hastings said the tests were likely to pick up users of cocaine and ecstasy, since these drugs were often combined with methamphetamines.

He believed the community would accept the five-minute wait period for processing each test.

"Research shows that a driver who has recently consumed cannabis or an amphetamine-based substance is at the same risk as having a crash as a driver with a blood alcohol concentration level above 0.05," Commissioner Hastings said.

However, Inspector Martin Boorman said there was no uniform threshold for illicit drugs to compare to the 0.05 blood alcohol content level applied in the case of alcohol. He said people who may have come down from drugs taken a day or two earlier may still test positive.

"The point is, both of these substances are totally illegal so they shouldn't be taking them anyway," Inspector Boorman said.

The tests:

can detect cannabis and methamphetamine, also known as speed;

do not detect prescription drugs or over-the-counter medicines like cold and flu tablets;

involve placing an absorbent collector in the mouth;

will be followed by a second sample if the first test proves positive;

must be confirmed by laboratory testing before charges can be laid;

are mandatory and drivers who refuse to take them are committing an offence.

with AAP

From The Age

Also, there's an article in the front of today's MX about it with a good picture of the drug bus and equipment.

I've scanned it in and you can view it by clicking below (82k):
http://members.optushome.com.au/rng/mx_drugbus.jpg

Especially of interest is the label on the silver bag the policeman is holding that reads DRUGWIPE II TWIN, Cannabis Methamph., Securetec... do we know anything about this company and the type of test it is?

 

[hoptis]

Also, another article from ABC Online indicates that testing will start in regional areas from tomorrow. I guess this means the dance party in Ballarat on the 11th will be covered.

Drivers to be tested for drug use

Police in regional Victoria will tomorrow begin testing drivers to see if they are under the influence of drugs.

Victoria has started a 12-month pilot program, believed to be the first in the world, using saliva tests to detect illegal drugs including cannabis and methamphetamines (speed).

Police say drug driving is a major cause of road death in Victoria, with 31 per cent of drivers killed on Victorian roads last year testing positive to drugs other than alcohol.

From ABC Online

 

[aunty establishment]

Does anyone know if these saliva tests will give a positive result for injecting users? I might be wrong in my thinking, but wouldn't very little amphetamine be detectable in the saliva if it was delivered directly to the bloodstream?

And even if I'm wrong, aren't there likely to be many other users who follow the same logic, thus introducing a new generation of users to injecting drug use and its associated harms? Just a few more ideas to ponder.

 

[deepbeetzz]

I have heard on several reports that the NSW testing starts in Dec and involves a $300 dollar fine, and 3 points off your licence. And the detective they were interviewing said that they will be targeting the heavy transport industry and the rave scene where they know people are taking these drugs. Source Triple J

Me and my girlfriend often if we have nothing to do on a nice friday night will have a few lines and drive into the city and walk around, have a few more lines and then drive to the beach or something, and just go on an adventure. I can honestly say that we have never ever drove dangerously (dangerous to ourselves or others), just listened to music, talked and enjoyed ourselves. I can understand busting folks for cones and driving as I know how dangerous that can be, but seriously you would have to have quite a bit of speed to get to a state where you would drive dangerously or recklessly! But now or in the near future I guess those friday night adventures will be over.

But all they have to do is set up near the domain on new years day or on parramatta road on the way into the city on NYE or any other fri/sat and they are gonna ruin alot of peoples day/nights.

db

 

[hdang]

are they gona have heaps of road side testing places or anything?? cuz in the 10months or so ive been driving, ive been breath tested ONCE. im assuming there gona be just as lazy.
*touch wood*

 

[Cowboy Mac]

are they gona have heaps of road side testing places or anything?? cuz in the 10months or so ive been driving, ive been breath tested ONCE. im assuming there gona be just as lazy.
*touch wood*

It will be targeted, expect to be tested coming from clubs/large dance events.

 

[hdang]

ah ok, dang

 

[Pleonastic]

However, Inspector Martin Boorman said there was no uniform threshold for illicit drugs to compare to the 0.05 blood alcohol content level applied in the case of alcohol. He said people who may have come down from drugs taken a day or two earlier may still test positive.

"The point is, both of these substances are totally illegal so they shouldn't be taking them anyway," Inspector Boorman said.

Cunt. I've been waiting for someone to just admit this, and finally someone's been quoted. While the goal of reducing the road toll is admirable, it's pretty clear that they're not all that fussed about how fair these tests are. I've said all along that if they're out to get people driving while affected then these tests have my full support. But I'm not going to rally behind a hidden attempt to further persecute drug users who use their substances responsibly.

 

[Killing_time]

I agree Pleo, it's simply an elaborate scheme to stop people taking drugs.
Unfortunately majority of persons will agree with these proposals (IMO).
I'm curious what someone like a parent would have to say on the matter (your or mine ).
I imagine be pro wholeheartedly.
On another note I imagine the targeting of individuals will be quite bias.

PEACE

 

[Psychadelic_Paisly]

It's a sad, sad day...

Drug tests for drivers a world first
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/11/30/1101577485428.html

Victorian motorists will become the first in the world to undergo random roadside saliva testing for illegal drugs later this month - and police have warned that those found with any trace of the drugs will be prosecuted.

But a drug expert said it was important that the tests were for impairment and not just use.

The tests, beginning on December 13, will detect cannabis and methamphetamines, which include speed and potentially ecstasy, under a 12-month pilot project.

Motorists pulled over for a drug test will undergo an alcohol breath test first. The drug test will involve placing a small absorbent pad on the driver's tongue for a few seconds and waiting five minutes for the test to be completed.

If the test, which was officially announced yesterday and had been foreshadowed in The Sunday Age, returns a positive result, drivers will be taken inside a drug bus for further testing. One sample will be kept by the motorist, a second will be used for further on-the-spot analysis and, if positive, will be sent to a laboratory for verification.

Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said yesterday that police would initially target those in the long-haul trucking industry and people who had attended nightclubs and dance parties.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

"Last year, a total of 31 per cent of motorists killed in Victoria tested positive to drugs other than alcohol," he said. "People who drive on the road whilst under the influence of illicit drugs are as dangerous as anybody driving with an excessive alcohol content.

"It's dangerous, it's illegal and from now on in, you'll be caught out if you do it."

Mr Haermeyer said motorists who returned positive laboratory results would be fined $307 and lose three demerit points. Subsequent convictions could result in fines of up to $1227 and up to six months' licence cancellation.

He said the chosen Securetec Drugwipe II Twin devices were "extremely accurate".

Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner (traffic) Bob Hastings said that, initially, one drug bus would conduct the tests during targeted operations as other police were trained.

He said about 9000 tests would be conducted over the next year, and drivers with any positive reading would be prosecuted.

"Methamphetamine can stay in the system for up to 24 hours, the active component of (cannabis) can stay in the system for a number of hours... ," he said.

Professor Nick Crofts, director of the Turning Point Alcohol and Drug Centre, said that while amphetamines could be flushed out of the body fairly quickly, cannabis was different. "Cannabis hangs around for a long time but that doesn't mean the effect of cannabis hangs around for a long time," he said.

"If you smoke cannabis, the active ingredients get taken up by the fat cells in the body and then slowly released over time.

"That doesn't mean that they are then psychoactive - they're not having an affect on you but they'll be detected. We have to be certain that what we're testing for is impairment, not just use."

 

[Joop]

This might be interesting for those who thought they may bring the tests in a little early at that dance party in Ballarat...

Mixed reaction to drug test scheme
Wednesday, 1 December 2004

A QUARTER of young males in Ballarat drive under the influence of drugs, a new survey has found.

Ballarat traffic police say they will struggle to implement a new drug-testing program, which was launched in Melbourne yesterday.

The admission came as AAMI released a survey showing 25 per cent of men aged 18 to 24 had driven under the influence of illicit drugs such as marijuana or ecstasy.

About eight per cent of women in the same age group admitted to driving after taking drugs.

Ballarat Traffic Management Unit Senior Sergeant Murray Rowe said the findings were not surprising.

"All I can say is it's an unknown quantity," he said.

"Whether the findings are indicative of the population I don't know. Let's hope not."

Victorian Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said motorists would have to wait about five minutes for results of the test.

"Last year, a total of 31 per cent of motorists killed in Victoria tested positive to drugs other than alcohol," he said.

The pilot program will begin on Monday, December 13.

Snr Sgt Rowe said Ballarat TMU would struggle to test drivers for drugs.

"We don't have the resources to submit people to drug-testing," he said.

"We have not been trained for this."

Snr Sgt Rowe said drug-testing would add to TMU's already strained workload.

Snr Sgt Rowe said the busy Christmas period was a strain on manpower, having to police the Western, Midland, Glenelg and Sunraysia highways.

"We do not have the facilities to put one car on each of these highways at the same time," he said.

Opposition police spokesman Kim Wells said the new drug-testing was "doomed before it begins".

"There are shortages right across country Victoria and places like Ballarat have a shortage of police at the frontline," he said.

Source

 

[superbabydoc]

Has anyone else noticed this glaring contradiction?

Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner (traffic) Bob Hastings said that..."Methamphetamine can stay in the system for up to 24 hours, the active component of (cannabis) can stay in the system for a number of hours... ," he said.

versus this

Professor Nick Crofts, director of the Turning Point Alcohol and Drug Centre, said that while amphetamines could be flushed out of the body fairly quickly, cannabis was different. "Cannabis hangs around for a long time but that doesn't mean the effect of cannabis hangs around for a long time," he said.

From what I have read, the police have said cannabis will be detected via this method for about 2 hours only after use. I would argue that that length of time would for most people correspond with duration of intoxication or driving impairment. However, if amphetamines can be detected for up to 24 hours, that is not going to correspond with driving impairment as most people aren't affected by amphetamines for that long.

 

[BigTrancer]

I guess if we are to read between the lines, the upshot of all of this is that the length of time between drug & driving is going to be the major unknown variable - exactly as it is with alcohol and driving.

We now know through education and experience that alcohol builds up in the system and eliminates over a particular timeframe, and the doses used can be roughly correlated (in the short term) with Blood Alcohol Content (BAC). From TV ads we know that 2 "standard drinks" in the first hour is enough to make most people's BAC hover in the vicinity of the legal limit, and as little as one more standard drink each hour after that will keep it elevated in that range. With this knowledge we can work around alcohol breath testing and the legal limit for driving; we count our drinks, estimate our BAC biased strongly by the physical effects of the alcohol, guess at the time of last dose, and then with all those assumptions in hand make a judgement whether the amount of alcohol vapour on our breath indicates a BAC below 0.05%alc/vol...

With drugs and driving, the variable will still be time since last dose, but there is no legal limit, and we haven't got clear knowledge (yet) about what exactly is being detected in the saliva tests. This information will come about soon enough, and people will begin to develop a feel for the elimination time scales for the drug metabolites being detected. It seems that the detection limits for each (active?) metabolite will serve the same function as the legal limit for alcohol - it will define the 'safe' period between dose and driving to avoid Detection. (Note that none of this has anything to do with whether one SHOULD drive, but whether they would be detected doing so. The safety issue drives the discussion, but many factors influence ones safety in a car, and I acknowledge that fatigue and drug use often occur together.)

So I think that's why there is going to be no "4 hours after marijuana" statement officially, because they don't HAVE TO. The laws are already in place, they don't even have to know how the devices work to be able to bust you with them, I think.

BigTrancer