Stimulants Ritalin versus Vyvanse versus dextroamphetamine (dexedrine)?

[JohnBoy2000]

That's my experience as well. Lisdexameftamine is weaker than dexamphetamine (about 60% as strong, I think) and has a fairly slow onset, but it works just fine and is overall a pretty smooth and functional form of stimulant. Methylphenidate can potentially be more exciting as it hits harder and faster, but it also has a bit of a crash to it as it drops off quickly, too.

If you can get what you need from any of those three, I would suggest just staying away from meth in any form.

This makes absolute sense based on reputation.

Are you speaking from experience with this?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I would imagine this is subjective/individual?

I used to respond well to noradrenaline boosters, now they make me tired.

Dopamine lights me up currently. Historically I couldn't even really notice it.

Right now, looking for something DA specific, one would think dextroamphetamine is choice.

Maybe certainly subjective and indivdual. Probably also geographical.
US dose raises are normal, overhere prescribing dex-Amphetamine is off label for adults.
And 45 mg sort of a set limit. Though MPH they go way higher, and is also for adults, so little logic if at all.

Only thing i notice of dex is if i dont take it. Procrestination and other drug use motivation raise.

Dextro-Amphetamine is imo regarding kinetics the best option. Little Nor-Adrenalin release noticeable if.
IR is like a SR version for me, but if not these formulations would a option. Background stuff, not kiddie-Coke like MPH.
So if given the choice yes.

 

[Dextro .45]

In your experience, after a new user commences it at say 20 mg per day, how much time would elapse before they'd begin to notice tolerance emerging?

A couple weeks?

A couple months?

Does taking a break for a couple days from time to time, help to reset such a tolerance?

Yes, tolerance develops as with nearly every compound.

First time ever taking Biphentin XR 10mg …..4mg IR, remaining 6mg released 4h after….and I DID experience a significant mood-lifting/moderately euphoric effects…..from even 4mg ha ha.

So, Ritalin 5/10/20mg IR tablets are VERY effective for a new user. In all medical journals I’ve read, Methylphenidate is dosed at 0.25mg of HCL salt / per Kg of body weight (ED-50) the “Effective Dose” to inhibit 50% of DAT

Ritalin 10mg tablets are very sufficient for a new user.
Ritalin 20mg tablets would most certainly induce euphoric/pleasurable effects

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is considered in medical literature a “Classic Amphetamine” and is no joke. It’s nearly identical to Cocaine in its MOA….both being classified as Inverse Agonists at the monoamine transports…..yes they are Reuptake Inhibitors BUT they also indirectly cause the release of Dopamine, Norepinephrine, Serotonin

Ritalin (Methylphenidate)
Phenmetrazine (Preludin)
Cocaine (Illicit) - Numbrino TM
Amphetamine (Benzedrine)
d-Amphetamine (Dexedrine)
d-Methylamphetamine (Methedrine/Desoxyn)
Biphetamine (Mixed Amph salts) currently marketed as Adderall
Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) pro-drug metabolizes into active d-Amph
Didrex (Benzphetamine) pro-drug metabolizes into d-Meth, then finally into d-Amph

These are all TRUE dopaminergic stimulant/classic amphetamines with a Phenylethylamine skeletal backbone structure (minus Cocaine being a Tropaine Alkaloid)

Ritalin - DAT>NET
Cocaine - DAT>SERT>>NET

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is actually nearly twice as potent than Cocaine at inhibiting the DAT …..also why it’s referred to as “Kiddy Coke” cause Ritalin is nearly identical to Cocaine in their MOA

Just go slow bro…..gauge your bodies response to a low dose, then after 4-6h you can take a larger dose if needed. Methylphenidate is actually the safest of all the true dopaminergic stimulants regarding its negative effects on the cardiovascular system. Very little stress on the HR & BP. Racemate Amphetamine (Benzedrine) would be the worst as it’s Norepinephrine properties are very apparent

Tolerance would gradually occur after several weeks to a month with daily hi dose use…..taking breaks here and there are good. Taking supplements to aid in the synthesis of dopamine inside the CNS can help. Healthy diet, physical exercise and social activities help aid in healthy monoamine levels in the CNS

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is a very safe, useful compound IF taken properly in therapeutic doses and the sporadic low end recreational dose with Ethanol to enhance the mood-boosting / euphoric properties of this fabulous dopaminergic stimulant

I just took 60mg IR an hour ago after breakfast with my Methadone 100mg, Valium 20mg, and third Gin cocktail lol, ya ya it’s a Sunday morning, piss off ha ha ha ….Sunday is Fun-Day

Cheers mate….and be safe

 

[Halif2]

Are you speaking from experience with this?

Yeah, unfortunately. I usually only comment on things I have firsthand experience with. I haven't touched it for a long while because A) i simply cannot use it in any quantity without getting into trouble, and B) i did something permanent to my body with it and other stims whereby I am now susceptible to anxiety with even small doses of any stimulant.

Telling someone not to do something simply does not work, but I would never suggest someone try meth - there are other things which are less dangerous to use.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Yes, tolerance develops as with nearly every compound.

First time ever taking Biphentin XR 10mg …..4mg IR, remaining 6mg released 4h after….and I DID experience a significant mood-lifting/moderately euphoric effects…..from even 4mg ha ha.

So, Ritalin 5/10/20mg IR tablets are VERY effective for a new user. In all medical journals I’ve read, Methylphenidate is dosed at 0.25mg of HCL salt / per Kg of body weight (ED-50) the “Effective Dose” to inhibit 50% of DAT

Ritalin 10mg tablets are very sufficient for a new user.
Ritalin 20mg tablets would most certainly induce euphoric/pleasurable effects

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is considered in medical literature a “Classic Amphetamine” and is no joke. It’s nearly identical to Cocaine in its MOA….both being classified as Inverse Agonists at the monoamine transports…..yes they are Reuptake Inhibitors BUT they also indirectly cause the release of Dopamine, Norepinephrine, Serotonin

Ritalin - DAT>NET
Cocaine - DAT>SERT>>NET

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is actually nearly twice as potent than Cocaine at inhibiting the DAT …..also why it’s referred to as “Kiddy Coke” cause Ritalin is nearly identical to Cocaine in their MOA

Just go slow bro…..gauge your bodies response to a low dose, then after 4-6h you can take a larger dose if needed. Methylphenidate is actually the safest of all the true dopaminergic stimulants regarding its negative effects on the cardiovascular system. Very little stress on the HR & BP. Racemate Amphetamine (Benzedrine) would be the worst as it’s Norepinephrine properties are very apparent

Tolerance would gradually occur after several weeks to a month with daily hi dose use…..taking breaks here and there are good. Taking supplements to aid in the synthesis of dopamine inside the CNS can help. Healthy diet, physical exercise and social activities help aid in healthy monoamine levels in the CNS

Just got ask, all that medication, are you being treated for a specific condition?

Even after a few days on 20 mg ritalin, I find that "kick" and euphoria I got on day 1, tends to diminish.

In my case that may be a function of other considerations, other aspects of mood dependent on the day etc.

.......

Yes my experience with racemic amphetamine is it boosts NA excessively.

Have you any experience with methamphetamine, and how would you compare it to others stims?

It seems to boost all three monoamines equally?

 

[Dextro .45]

Reddit has people who have legit Desoxyn scripts tell about their effects 5-25mg d-Meth. They all say it makes Adderall seem like the tweakiest drug ever lol. In low therapeutic doses, d-Meth is actually relatively safe and carries less cardio stress liability than Benzedrine ….its only when people are smoking ICE or IV Meth 1,000mg’s over several days that it’s neurotoxicity becomes a serious issue

Pervitin 3mg tablets
Desoxyn 5mg tablets (5-25mg daily)
Methedrine 20 & 30mg glass ampoules for IV/IM/SC injection
d-N-Desoxyephedrine Hydrochloride (Methedrine) ….all super clean shit

Desbutal (d-Meth & Barbiturate)
Dexamyl (d-Amph & Barbiturate)….both Holy Grail pharmaceutical IR tablets & XR capsules

RA painful condition

WWII studies found adding d-Amphetamine to Morphine Sulphate SIGNIFICANTLY enhanced Morphines analgesic properties

Both compounds have pain modulating properties alone....combined are amazing

Plus a dopaminergic stimulant reduces sedation of opioid, enhances pain killing properties of opioids, mood-boosting properties, enhanced vigilance and improves any cognitive impairment from sedative opioid effects

Ritalin is an amazing dopaminergic stimulant with excellent safety profile

Methadone 100mg
Ritalin 60mg IR
Diazepam 10mg
Alprazolam 1mg
Pregabalin 300mg

Is an ideal oral Brompton Cocktail I've been tolerant to for 10+ years....and still very effective.

VERY effective analgesic / anxiolytic / stimulant combo each complimenting eachother beautifully

When I starred obviously it was....
Oxycodone 5-10mg
Ritalin 10mg
NSAID's

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

Reddit has people who have legit Desoxyn scripts tell about their effects 5-25mg d-Meth

RA painful condition

WWII studies found adding d-Amphetamine to Morphine Sulphate SIGNIFICANTLY enhanced Morphines analgesic properties

Both compounds have pain modulating properties alone....combined are amazing

Plus a dopaminergic stimulant reduces sedation of opioid, enhances pain killing properties of opioids, mood-boosting properties, enhanced vigilance and improves any cognitive impairment from sedative opioid effects

Ritalin is an amazing dopaminergic stimulant with excellent safety profile

Methadone 100mg
Ritalin 60mg IR
Diazepam 10mg
Alprazolam 1mg
Pregabalin 300mg

Is an ideal oral Brompton Cocktail I've been tolerant to for 10+ years....and still very effective.

VERY effective analgesic / anxiolytic / stimulant combo each complimenting eachother beautifully

When I starred obviously it was....
Oxycodone 5-10mg
Ritalin 10mg
NSAID's

It's definitely effective but we should be noting the cns depressants are low-ish dose (unsure about your methadone dose though) and also that you have FOUR cns depressants in the top mix when combining even two can be dangerous - I know you know that...

10/15mg Ritalin and 10mg oxycodone combo is super-synergystic have to admit - I have a friend who calls it "the academic speedball" and I'm on that combo rn, 25mg (10mg then another 15mg 3 hours later) ritalin, 5mg oxy (about to be 10) and have breezed through a ton of superdull shit in 2 hours or so that would usually take me all day and felt great doing it too. No nagging pain, very focussed, calm. It's a once a week combination MAX, or getting into dangerous territory (for me anyway)

 

[Dextro .45]

Ya man....it's the ultimate oral Speedball

Morphine, Diamorphine (Heroin), Hydromorphone (Dilaudid), etc are all very sedating...hence, Morphius the Greek God of dreams, sleepy

theBaine alkaloid is used to synthesize Oxycodone....which has moderate stimulating /uplifting properties (separate from its euphoric properties)

Oxycodone was the first drug to ever give me true euphoria....the second was Ritalin (Methylphenidate) ....together their just pure sex

Oxycodone (Eukadol) patent in Germany states a stimulating narcotic with profound euphoria closely resembling that of Cocaine ....it's very potent with excellent oral bioavailabity ....too bad Perdue Pharma forever tainted Oxycodone due to the Opioid pandemic the Sackler family caused.

Hands down the best opioid ever synthesized....it pick it over Diacetylmorphine

Oxycodone
Methylphenidate
Diazepam

Top three drugs worth thier weight in gold (to me)

Methadone 100mg morning + 25mg after dinner....very opioid tolerant and using 25 years, so it's a long acting potent analgesic with great oral bioavailability

 

[Dextro .45]

....oh, also with multiple CNS depressants

Diazepam 10mg is a moderate low dose. Potent anxiolytic with robust muscle relaxant properties

Alprazolam 1mg also a moderate dose on the lower end ....an effective anxiolytic with antidepressant properties

Pregabalin is also an effective anxiolytic with anticonvulsant properties

So the combination of Valium & Xanax have their reasons....not just some thoughtless mixture. Every component of the Brompton Cocktail is tailored to the individual patient

Cocaine can be substituted with Amphetamine, Methylphenidate, Methamphetamine
Heroin can be substituted with Hydromorphone, Oxycodone, Methadone, Morphine
Gin was also used in the original formulation. Ethanol is very effective at jump starting / supercharging the rapid onset and peak effects

Barbiturates made way to benzodiazepines which as safer ....Valium, Xanax, and Lyrica is an amazing threesome lol just add a little Oxy & Rita and you're good to go

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Reddit has people who have legit Desoxyn scripts tell about their effects 5-25mg d-Meth. They all say it makes Adderall seem like the tweakiest drug ever lol. In low therapeutic doses, d-Meth is actually relatively safe and carries less cardio stress liability than Benzedrine ….its only when people are smoking ICE or IV Meth 1,000mg’s over several days that it’s neurotoxicity becomes a serious issue

For a drug that supposedly functions remarkably well for a select few, it is conversely touted as a "devil drug" to so many.

I'd love to know the actual ratios of affect, 5HT, NA and DA for methamphetamine.

My issue with regular amphetamine is that, unless prescribed dextroamphetamine, it's all manner of bogus crap one could be consuming.

Methamphetamine seems to be manufactured to a decent'ish standard however?

 

[Dextro .45]

Yes, it's often of very high purity, illicit Methamphetamine that is...thanks to that Japanese chemist for the simple reduction method....just have to remove that pesky HO from Ephedrine Ketone site .... Desoxyephedrine ....preferably only Dextro-Meth lol

Pharmaceutical Adderall or even better, Dexedrine is the best one could aquire. Adderall was called Biphetamine in the 40's ..... "Black Beauty's" a solid black 20mg capsule of 10mg d-Amph & 10mg d/l-Amph

A low dose of Adderall XR 10mg as a "base" topped up with IR Dexedrine 5mg tablets as needed would be my choice. Vyvanse was garbage.

But I'm too happy with my Ritalin (Methylphenidate) 60-100mg daily .....fast acting, 3-4h duration for IR if I need to sleep shortly after, and VERY euphoric & pleasurable mood-boosting properties (with an excellent safety profile to boot)

I wish I had Desbutal IR tablets and XR capsules ....probably the most effective anxiolytic, antidepressant, stimulant med from the 50's (Desoxyn + Barbiturate) my lord, all gloom & depression would melt away into Christmas morning in your PJ's with overwhelming joy & happiness ha ha

 

[Dextro .45]

Methylphenidate hits me in 30min.

Ya, generally an onset on 30-45min. C-max / peak plasma levels in bloodstream achieved in 1h / 1.5h

Eating a healthy fatty meal (toasted egg & ham sandwich) then Ritalin speeds / enhances absorption of Methylphenidate (slightly higher oral bioavailability)

Also, Ethanol/alcohol taken with Methylphenidate increases the active d-threo-MPH (Focalin) isomer by approx 40% increasing its euphoric properties in all study participants (posting in a medical journal)

 

[unodelacosa]

You should probably understand that methylphenidate acts as a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Cocaine acts similarly as a triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor. This is different from the way amphetamines work as triple monoamine releasing agents.

I'd love to know the actual ratios of affect, 5HT, NA and DA for methamphetamine.

Maybe this will help ☞ https://www.reddit.com/r/Stims/comments/1w8w1b/various_release_reuptake_and_binding_affinities/

Methamphetamine seems to be manufactured to a decent'ish standard however?

Purity levels are higher now than in the past when its production was the purview of many a toothless hillbilly with an internet "recipe for cooking meth." However, quality still varies quite a bit and its sale most times indirectly supports cartels, unfortunately.

Eating a healthy fatty meal (toasted egg & ham sandwich) then Ritalin speeds / enhances absorption of Methylphenidate (slightly higher oral bioavailability)

Raising one's renal pH (read: urinary pH) increases bioavailability, too. Antacids or a spoonful of baking soda in a glass of water taken 30 min before meds increases their bioavailability significantly. Sauce.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

RA painful condition

Methylphenidate assists this?

I ask only cause, I had nasty dental pain this last couple months.

I took 40 mg methylphenidate today, first time that high.

And the first time I haven't felt dental pain in months was today.

Quite possibly a co-incidence, but it's interesting none-the-less you find pain relief incorporating ritalin (presumably any DA booster would suffice) into your pain-killer cocktail.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Other major issue I had with meth when using previously;

Even at low doses (10 to 20 mg), there's an emotional roller coaster the following days or weeks.

After a high dose, the emotional roller coaster is barely tolerable.

And then at about 180 mg nasal, I became psychotic, which absolutely sucks.

........

Days later even without psychosis, paranoia does seem to come into effect in a social environments, like I have an intense feeling of being watched.

It is an effective stimulant obviously, smoother than racemic amphetamine, and cardio effects are also concerning at higher doses.

Fact is, at the moment, DA boosters are my saving grace.

I have access to ritalin up to 40 mg per day, and am trying to figure out what may be an appropriate next step.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Last week I dosed 150 mg bupropion (welbutrin) on day 1.

Day 2 I dosed 20 mg ritalin and it felt much better than normal.

So there's either a symbiotic synergy between these, or perhaps bupropion inhibits ritalin metabolism, raising it's blood plasma levels.

They're cautioned against using together, seizure risk, but the effect was good.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

You should probably understand that methylphenidate acts as a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Cocaine acts similarly as a triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor. This is different from the way amphetamines work as triple monoamine releasing agents.


Maybe this will help ☞ https://www.reddit.com/r/Stims/comments/1w8w1b/various_release_reuptake_and_binding_affinities/

I don't understand the first table:

(+)-Amphetamine

What's is plus-minus amphetamine?

Levo or dextro (meth/) amphetamine?

I was of the understand dextroamphetamine (dexedrine, amfexa), was almost exclusively a DA agent?

No NA like adderall or racemic.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

You should probably understand that methylphenidate acts as a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Cocaine acts similarly as a triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor. This is different from the way amphetamines work as triple monoamine releasing agents.


Maybe this will help ☞ https://www.reddit.com/r/Stims/comments/1w8w1b/various_release_reuptake_and_binding_affinities/

Conversely, table 2 then suggests +- methamphetamine works more potently on DA than NE?

In contrast to table 1, suggesting the opposite.

.......

"Focalin" or d-methylphenidate;

Anyone used this?

 

[unodelacosa]

(+)-Amphetamine
What's is plus-minus amphetamine?

So it's actually plus-hyphen amphetamine. It represents the dextrorotatory isomer, or d-isomer, what is known as Dexedrine and is 75% of the isomer in Adderall.

Levo or dextro (meth/) amphetamine?

Both are listed.

(+)-Amphetamine is d-amphetamine ("Dex")
(-)-Methamphetamine is l-methamphetamine (OTC bronchodilator)
(+)-Methamphetamine is d-methamphetamine (d-meth, r/p/ie meth, Birch reduction meth, "ice-cream")
(+/-)-MDMA is racemic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, X, ecstasy, molly, etc.)

I was of the understand dextroamphetamine (dexedrine, amfexa), was almost exclusively a DA agent?

No, amphetamine is a well known adrenergic RA. It also works—to a lesser extent—as a reuptake inhibitor.

No NA like adderall or racemic.

Less peripheral nervous system stimulation and more central nervous system stimulation instead.

The two tables are from different studies. The first table compares IC50 (nM) for release and Ki (nM) for uptake values. It's important to keep in mind that these values "are expressed as equilibrium dissociation constants (Ki (nM)). Lower values correspond to higher binding at the site, or in other words, less is more." The second table focuses solely on release values. If some of the figures are slightly different, keep in mind they're from two separate studies.

Also, to answer your question: yes, I've used Focalin. I didn't think it stood out as anything special or significantly different from Ritalin / racemic methylphenidate. But then, I don't especially care for methylphenidate, but different strokes and all that. Are you a fan of cocaine, or no, not so much? I only ask bc of its correlation to methylphenidate's pharmacodynamics.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Never used or tried cocaine.

No therapeutic value for my purposes.

Stims are to boost mood by way of increasing motivation/energy.

Ritalin oddly seems only to work in my case, when combined with mirtazapine or some other conventional neuro-modulator/mood-booster.

Otherwise it seems very weak, almost ineffective.

Unsure why that is, perhaps the increase in noradrenaline mirtazapine causes?
Though I've never read anyone potentiating stims by using them with mirtazapine.