Rehab- Is it effective?

[Znegative]

Hey everybody,
I'm kind of interested in everyone's take on drug treatment centers.

I myself have been to about 7 Treatment Center's (including outpatient program's) over the last five years, and have offten felt very skeptical as to there effectiveness. With most of my experiences in inpatient program's, halfway houses and outpatient's, I found that I usually left a worse (or better you could argue) addict than I had been when I was enrolled.

A shining example of this would be when I was 19, and entered my first thirty day program. I went in there for sniffing heroin, and after detoxing, I was paired up with another heroin user as a roommate, who was also similair in age. One of the counselours had accidentally given this kid his car key's back, and within about five day's we were putting our collective efforts together to make money, and my roomate was driving out to the city to cop heroin. Aftere watching him inject several times, he managed to convince me to give it a try. I stupidly agreed and from that point forward I was an I.V drug user.

Of course this isn't completely the fault of the hospital, as it was I who made the choice to engage in using drugs again, but I've found that at many program's, I would wind up leaving with a wealth of knowledge pertaining to drug use that I was previously ignorant of.

I'm also interested in what people's views are regarding the abstinance model for Drug Treatment. I myself was once a true believer in total abstinence, but after several relapses, I've become a little more cynical about it, and feel that perhap's it is actually a hinderence. If one can obstain from using all drugs, and is happier that way, then that's fine, but putting the idea out there that "All drugs are the same to an Addict', become's a dangerous idea, and a self fullfilling prophecy, which I've seen carried out so many times by myself and by other's. I feel personally that there should be more of an emphasis on healthy living habits, and possibly a more cognitive behavioural approach to addiction, rather than veiwing sucess by how many day's you've abstained, regardless of how happy or misserable you are.

So please, feel free to share your thought's and experiences.

 

[rocked513]

on the topic of rehab effectiveness, i feel that rehab is like anything else in life, what you put into it is what you are going to get out of it. sure there are people there maybe because of legal issues or their parents forced them to go that really don't want to be there. those are the people that aren't going to get clean. you have to distance yourself from people like that and surround yourself with people who acutallywant to be there if you want to program to succeed.

currently i'm in an outpatient program now (for legal reasons) and the counselor is always talking about changing your way of living, thought process, and lifestyle. recovery is more than just clean time. she also stresses that "clean time" and "recovery time" are two very different things.

 

[paper planes]

rehab can give you the tools to do what you need to do or better yet give you different ways to do it( deal with your problems, coping skills) ive been to like 4 or 5 and none of it will do any good if you aint ready to do it yourself.. But i also agree with what i think your trying to say and the same goes with jail sometimes it can just make the problem worse.. rehab not as much as jail but still cuz i mean look at your situation... And yes they should put more empahsis of healthy living, excercise, lifestyle choices theres a whole lot of things they should teach and tell you that they dont... they also try and beat in your head once an addict always an addict but i think that if you get your life undercontrol and are healthy you can gain your control back.. I also feel like i came out worse than before, i also dont go to meetings because in almost every one ive been to its people sitting around glorifying their past experiences with their drugs of choice, shits whack

 

[Znegative]

Yeah, that is the point I'm trying to make.

I've been to some rehabs, where I didnt want to go, but somehow, somewhere along the line something caught my attention and made me consider sobriety more seriously.

But I also feel that the abstinance model is a little bit too black and white, and that doesn't go just for rehab or TC's but also for 12step programs as a whole. There is so much emphasis on complete abstinence, that I sometimes feel as though it almost sets me up to fail. For instance, let's say I quit using heroin for 3 months, and then relapse. Due to this idea that's been engrained into my head from NA, and countless treatment center's, I find myself feeling as if those 3 months I spent abstinent were all for nothing, because I've thrown it all out the window, so why not fuck it and go buy a few bundles and return to active addiction.

But I sometimes wonder though, if this idea that using a chemical even once after a period of abstinence will set off a reaction in my brain that that renders me powerless over drugs, was not so hammered into my head, that using heroin once after three months could just seem like a small set back, but an overall improvement compared to previous self destructive drug use, and perhaps it wouldn't feel like such a devastating failure.

I mean, there is absolutely no way for me to find this out for sure, as I feel like I've been programmed to buy into this theory, (though I spend an absurd amount of time debating it with myself), but I think it just makes for an interesting discussion.

 

[Rabidrabbit]

I've never personally been to a rehab facility or NA/AA meetings (save for one AA meeting I ''observed'' for a class about addiction), so I cannot speak for the efficacy of those types of programs. I can only speak on my assumptions and observations. I've never heard of a person going to only one treatment center, coming out clean and staying clean for more than a few weeks to (in the most successful case) a couple months. These kids were always back on the booze and the pills and the powders faster than you could imagine, really. It's very similar to the prison "revolving door" model -- in and out of treatment. (And that's fine, if you can afford it. Why not go somewhere warm by the ocean to dry the fuck out for a little while? Most treatment centers are just there for your money, right? Or because your parents and society don't know what the fuck to do with you. But it sort of behooves the treatment centers to have repeat clientele, much like it behooves the dealers to have loyal customers.)

Relapse was almost inevitable. Although it seemed like nothing in their lives changed -- they came back to the same school, hung around the same kids and slowly reintegrated into their old lives. I'm probably guilty of influencing someone to relapse, although I've never intentionally tried to ruin someone's sobriety -- that causes me a lot of guilt. If I *know* someone is trying to maintain sobriety, I will remove myself from their presence if I feel like my habits and behaviors are threatening to their sobriety. I hate seeing people go through all of that pain and suffering trying to get clean only to end up on the drugs again. I've never personally wanted to get clean so I can't speak to that either. If money wasn't an issue, I'd be flying right now.

In high school, I was going through 8-balls of cocaine and bottles of liquor almost nightly. I'd get to school around 11am after staying up all night and skip out by 1pm in order to drink myself down enough to be around my dad (who was home on disability.) If my parents intervened when I was 17 and gone through with their threats of sending me somewhere (outpatient, because I was daddy's little girl and he'd never have sent me away) I don't know where I would be now. But that's neither here nor there. I've heard of friends being sent to rehab for marijuana and they were probably the worst off coming out of rehab, having graduated to other drugs. (Parents, please don't send your children to rehab for marijuana if that if the only drug your child is using. Please.)

Currently, I'm about 2 weeks off of oxycodone (from ~100mg/day plus a gram of awesome cocaine to ~15mg and off of it after a quick taper) and am waiting on a script's fill-date and some money so I can tear it all up again on the pills. The last time I was clean for 10 days straight, I sought out my first bundle of heroin, did it throughout a week along with Percocet to alleviate the migraines I got from the heroin, and didn't like it as much as I like the oxycodone. I'm both happy that I didn't take to the heroin and also a little perplexed -- could have been a shitty batch, my curiosity was piqued but I'd do it again if I had a good source, etc etc...

I've also thought about going to a rehab facility or at least some NA meetings to see what all the fuss is about. Sometimes I feel completely helpless and suicidal because of the drugs but I kinda feel like my addiction is my baby that must be protected at all costs and I've never said to anyone, out loud, that I have a drug problem even though that's the definition of my existence -- seeking drugs, doing drugs, withdrawing from drugs and repeating the cycle over and over again, digging myself deeper and deeper each time. I don't want to get clean, therefore I will not. I guess I've come full circle -- you have to want to get clean in order to get clean.

Conversely, I don't think it's completely necessary to go to rehab in order to get clean.

TL;DR The success rate is so low because most people who are in rehab don't want to get clean for whatever reason.

 

[cj]

I think the 1 year success rates for most 12 step model rehabs speak for themselves. (its around 15 percent for the best ones and thats after they cherry pick the statistics). For me my one stay in a real rehab was a disaster I went in voluntarily with a very mild IV heroin problem and left a full blown junky determined to ride the train for all it was worth. To me the whole 12 step model just pissed me off god is going to fix my addiction? right....... Then the whole attitude of those people is disgusting they hire ex addicts who are now steppers that are so indoctronated that they are really useless for anything other than spitting cliches like "it works if you work it" which if you think about it that statement they are basically saying if out program doesnt work its becaue you didnt try. Now think about that if a cancer patient doesnt respond to chemo therapy does the doctor say well shit I guess patient just didnt want to get better? No thats insane. The whole 12 step model is a con game.

 

[Boris718]

I could tell you as someone who on a regular basis is drunk or drinking most my life and since stepping up to the plate and attempting to cure my hepatitice C with new treatment, i stoped and barly give it much thought. Something i thought would devestate alot of my life, social and mostly personal, I think it does truly have to do with who you feel you are as a person, someone who can dip and dam as a friend of mine does recreationaly (whom i believe lies about the extent), or your someone who feels what they need to do for the right reasons is to stop now. If you feel you need to be commited or want be commited, its possible, otherwise your commition is succeding in attempting to have fun which i believe if gained, is very special and should be deeply cherished. I agree with what you said rabidrabbit about sending your kid to rehab if he smokes weed, as if sending your kid into a large safe, brimming with a wealth of knowldge in drug culture. I am someone who has never been to rehab, so i can only speak to this extent. Love you znegative. If anyone is curiouse about hepatitce C treatment, incivek (telaprevir), pegasys (interferon) and ribasphere (ribavirin), let me know. Ive been taking it all for two months now.

 

[Znegative]

I remember this one rehab that I went to, i went voluntarily under the impression that I'd be there for 30 days (actually it wasn't really voluntarily, I was 20 so it was rehab or the streets pretty much) Anyway, I got there and on the first day, there was this huge confrontation with this kid who was almost done with his 1 month stay, and he was trying to go home, but the rehab was trying to send him off to this extended care program which was connected to the 30 program (go figure). So they had the kid and his mother sitting in this big room, while the counselors all went around yelling at the patient AND his mother, that this guy was going to be dead within 3 months if he didn't take their reccomendations. Needless to say the mother was in tears, and the kid looked like he was going to lose his mind.

Then they used the line "well, if you dont go to this extended care TC, than that shows that you havn't fully surrendered to your addiction." (That ones a real bitch, because the more you argue it, the more you look like a fucking junky).

Anyway, the kid wound up going home, but I didn't. I stayed there for five months, detoxed off of methadone cold turkey (except for a few days of phenobarbital, WTF!!), and then wound up being pushed to a halfway house out in D.C, where I relapsed after a month.

The sad thing is, that I dont think when these 12 step programs were originally created, that they were meant to be used this way to con people into spending shit loads of money on Treatment centers and after care programs. Bill Wilson (the founder of AA), even dabbled in LSD, thinking that perhaps it would be the cure for alchoholism, and according to the books, he enjoyed tripping balls quite thouroughly.

I don't really have a problem with the principles of these program's if they help people, but what I hate is when people claim that it is THE ONLY WAY. I just cant accept that.

 

[Boris718]

Excuse my mis spelling for i never went to school yet charish myself an interesting writer

 

[Boris718]

Somehow finding what triggers your mind to slip into that special realm of confidence in ones self. Also keeeping busy, productivity. Drawing and writing is key, writing especialy.

 

[Tommyboy]

I think that rehab can be good to "break the cycle" that is the unhealthy life of an addict. If someone is scheming/scamming to get a fix each day, neglecting everything in their life, and using unhealthy means to get their fix, then they need something to make it stop. I think that one of the biggest reason why some people may stay clean after completing rehab is because they don't want to waste all the money that they (other their family) just spent on it. That is obviously not the right reason to quit, but if it works for someone, then I'm not going to argue with it.

I went to inpatient rehab once about 5 years ago, and I really didn't get much out of it. I was court mandated to go there, and my habit wasn't even that bad at the time. While I was in there I was with a lot of addicts that were way worse than me (I know that everyone thinks that everyone else is worse than them in there, but it was pretty true in my case) and I learned more bad than good in there.

I don't think that it's a good idea for anybody to go to a rehab facility in their state. If you are with a bunch of addicts in your area, you are bound to leave there with more 'connections' than you went in there with. That also depends on how serious you are about your recovery in there, and I minded my own business most of the time, but overheard a lot of people making the wrong kind of plans for when they got out.

The things that people need to learn and experience in order to get better are probably not the things that they will experience and be taught in rehab. Most people have to learn the hard way before making the necessary changes to better themselves. Some people will never figure these things out, while others figure them out at all different times/stage in their use.

The biggest realization that an addict has to accept before getting better is that their current lifestyle is not working out for them. Some die before getting to that point, others may accept it while in rehab, but most will experience it on their own. If you are not sick of the lifestyle, then you are not going to try to change it.

One of the reasons why I think that rehab does not work well is because the process of quitting is just as long and complex as the process of getting addicted, so it's crazy to think that someone will accept a life without drugs once they step foot into the rehab facility.

I do think that rehab can help a lot of people, especially if they are using dangerously and can't seem to stop. I just think that most people won't completely stop from rehab, but will instead slowly learn on their own until they get sick of the lifestyle.

 

[billdeserthills]

I quit my $500 a week meth habit back in 97. I spent the next year extremely depressed, and I respected myself (& hated the drug) enough to never try it again (except in e) I have a good assortment of drugs on hand and I don't have a problem with overusing any of them, but I know I am an odd case...
Far as rehab goes I have spent plent of time visiting na/aa meetings with a couple of friends. Their way would have never worked for me, and I have quit doing many things myself, that could have become lifelong addictions in someone else

 

[Alex000]

I was only to one under very pressured circumstances. It was during this past summer and in between my many stays at various psych hospitals, and it was very "interesting". Very much like the other hospital stays I look back on it with bitter contempt and disgust, however, it should be noted I was on several neuroleptics during these psych hospital stays and my stay at rehab. I was Abilify and Thorazine during my 21-day stay at the rehab, along with an SSRI, Buspar, Remeron, and I had been recently taken off benzos involuntarily via a very rapid taper at the psych hospital stay right before I spent my time at the rehab. I was chemically fucked. The drugs in combination with the circumstances created a feeling almost undescribable. I almost look back at the stay at rehab with sick pleasure, almost masochistic. The techs were crazy, most ex-addicts, and the "therapists" were of very little help. The kids were fucked up. There was constant repition of the 12-step program, seriously it felt akin to brainwashing. Now my experience was not ordinary, but the usual anti-drug propaganda was spouted again and again. Benzos were the devil, but amphetamines were regularly given out to kids dx'd with "ADHD". It was an absolutely crazy experience personally, but this was not a nice rehab, and I was fucked with all the unhealthy drugs in my system. Rehabs in movies often are made to look nice, even on Intervention they don't look half-bad, but this was horrible. Oh, and I stuck to my guns, that drugs (recreational that is) were what worked for me, and that was my pleasure in life, and there was nothing "wrong" about it. And I am damn proud of myself for surviving not only that, but all the psych hospital stays. I am doing very well now, and one day I will tell off every single doctor who fucked me over.

 

[el8one]

Hey everybody,
I'm kind of interested in everyone's take on drug treatment centers.

I myself have been to about 7 Treatment Center's (including outpatient program's) over the last five years, and have offten felt very skeptical as to there effectiveness. With most of my experiences in inpatient program's, halfway houses and outpatient's, I found that I usually left a worse (or better you could argue) addict than I had been when I was enrolled.

I have no doubt that some day in the future AA/NA and 12 step ideology overall will be viewed in much the same way as medieval blood-letting; a practice rooted in pseudo science whose false and unscientific teachings ended up negating the benefits of treatment and in many cases making things worse due to many of the truths you touched upon. Obviously, not everything they teach is bogus and some people do swear by it, just like blood-letting did help those that had high blood pressure or suffered hypertension whose benefit was derived out of the complete coincidence that it proved useful in their rare cases, but its overall the practice proved naive by increasing fatality rates while turning otherwise independent minded people into slavish tools out of desperation. At its best rehab gets people off the streets away from their destructive environments and groups like AA/NA provide a new social click focused on sobriety. At worse its highly unscientific teachings used for indoctrination and constant reminders to reliving ones experiences end up doing far worse psychological damage and acting as a catalyst for repeated relapse.

Keep in mind the the science of addiction is still in its infancy and 12 steps was developed prior to there being any form of treatment at all and is therefore necessarily filled with unscientific knowledge and practices. In fact, empirical research on its efficacy reveals there's no statistical significance in their weak success rate over those that attempt to get clean using no form of treatment at all. Unfortunately, drug treatment centers are such utter cash cows that these antiquated bastions have continued to proliferate in the absence of anything else. The 12 steps just happens to have been around the longest and so dominate as the practice used by most places. Even more insidious are those treatment centers that prey on the vulnerable by advertising themselves as an alternative to 12 steps that incognito, are funded and run by the Church of Scientology and their recovery itineraries based on the brainwashing techniques practiced straight out of their teachings and are great conduits for new membership to their church. Such depravity should be outlawed.

I'm also interested in what people's views are regarding the abstinance model for Drug Treatment. I myself was once a true believer in total abstinence, but after several relapses, I've become a little more cynical about it, and feel that perhap's it is actually a hinderence. If one can obstain from using all drugs, and is happier that way, then that's fine, but putting the idea out there that "All drugs are the same to an Addict', become's a dangerous idea, and a self fullfilling prophecy, which I've seen carried out so many times by myself and by other's. I feel personally that there should be more of an emphasis on healthy living habits, and possibly a more cognitive behavioural approach to addiction, rather than veiwing sucess by how many day's you've abstained, regardless of how happy or misserable you are.

So please, feel free to share your thought's and experiences.

It's absolute bogus that they teach total abstinence as the only way forward. Moderation is an adaptable trait that can work for some, not all, individuals that my life experiences have only confirmed. Everyone gets clean and makes changes when they decide it's time, whether in treatment or not. I lived a life of hedonistic excess that I chose to change after hitting my bottom without treatment about 7 years ago. My first destructive love was smoking glass to excess. These days I am prescribed desoxyn and dexedrine for my ADHD which I take faithfully at its prescribed dosage assiting my focus and concentration. According to treatment dogma, I should be abusing these meds and the desoxyn alone should have instantly triggered my addict brain to go out and start abusing ridiculous amounts of glass again. Whatever with that. I'm far more conscious of immediate consequences and have diffrent priorities that overcome any impulse to throw caution to the wind.

During my last 7 years I've sipped alcohol (something I never cared for) on occassion when given to me out of politeness and it's never sparked a run. I can count on one hand the times I've smoked a bunch of glass during this period as well but they never sparked runs. I did make drastic changes including city, state and lifestyle changes when I made this decision that probably was most conducive to my immediate success, the lack of easy access and excess minded peer groups. These days I just have a different set of priorities and interests that occupy my time such that recreational drug use and preoccupation of it no longer dominates my thinking. I went through the whole opiate IV thing before 7 years ago, and since then I've been to the hospital for surgeries involving morphine that never sparked runs. It just never seemed worth it anymore. For instance, I can't think of anything more unappealing than going out and scoring a bunch of H right now and IV'ing because what the fuck am I going to do when I come down? Empty my bank account? Start that whole cycle again? No fucking way. There's a physiological withdrawal that gets worse with long time opiate abusers that makes moderation of the kind far more unlikely that I could understand if preached the total abstinence that just doesn't exist with other drugs. They're not all cut from the same cloth. I don't abuse my prescribed meds because of how miserable I know I'll be those days without them before I can re-up. I didn't need AA to teach me how warped short sighted thinking is. I learned of it on my own through personal experience (really the only way to learn this stuff for some) and have let the natural tendency to avoid activities that lead to misery and failure do the rest. Wisdom? Maturity? Call it whatever. But the "all drugs are same to an addict" maxim of AA I'm sure have made things worse for people. Also the indoctrination that if you relapse you're fated to end up at rock bottom again unless you get yourself into treatment or AA/NA meetings are the kinds of things that the Catholic Church preached to tools to keep their racket in power and their pontificates fabulously wealthy. It does end up a self fulfilling prophecy for the tool that accepts such doctrine, with the reinforcement of manifest circumstances turning some to zealotry and its associated dangers.

So you're not alone in your healthy cynicism. It's a natural symptom of an inquisitive mind.

 

[paper planes]

Rehab is a money deal.. so if every time you slip you seek them they get money for treating you... ive learned in the past couple of years that using aint the problem its what comes along with continued heavy use like decisions, taking care of yourself, jobs, family, friends.. if you can gain control of your life and your mind than using every once in a while isnt a problem, its when you have no control then it becomes a problem.. i picked myself up and got clean completly on my own i didnt do no 12 step this time or NA or nothing like that but everybodys different but the main thing in being clean is that person has to want it

 

[bran91]

I was lied to and forced into rehab for meth use in a freakin' 3rd world country, the Philippines. My mom lied to me cuz she said we're going to see grandma and ended up in a mental ward. I did end up seeing grandma... as my psychiatrist... in rehab... My own grandma !! She told my mom that if she doesn't get me in rehab then she's going to call the police and have them take my there. Psychiatrists have way too much power.

I'll add more details later. I'm tired.

 

[Kittykatone]

It's tough to say because inpatient/outpatient programs work for a lot of people and continue to, but other times they fail miserably.

I've seen a few outpatients and rehabs in my day, and they are typically all the same. The only difference is that in rehab the groups are more frequent and life there turns into recovery.recover.recovery. All day everyday. It's intense.

I think whether or not the rehab/outpatient will work depends on the individual. If they go into either kind of rehab mandated by the courts or to avoid jail or some other kind of serious trouble they are most likely there to just do the time and get out. They will walk through the motions, please their counsellors, and do everything possible to get the fuck out! Most of the time these people are in denial and have not seen the negative effects the substances have had on their lives and the lives of the ones close to them. They are not ready and willing to stop, but will for the meantime. But as soon as they check out they will be back to using again.

Now individuals that go to rehab willingly without any legal trouble motivating them are there to Beth better because they know it's the only last option, besides death. They have felt the pain and emotional suffering of addiction. These individuals usually graduate from their substance ause program.

But in reality anything is possible. People will sometimes go into rehab wanting to get clean and end up making better drug connections and unhealthy relationships. Other times the people going to rehab to avoid jail time will have a spiritual experience and decide that they want to change their life around.

People in rehabs are extremely unhealthy, mind and body. Some aren't as bad as others, they just haven't had to suffer as long. If someone goes to rehab they need to be strong, which they usually aren't. Completing a substance abuse program is one of the hardest things to do for an addict. And I commend all who have.

But like I said substance abuse programs will only work when the person is ready and willing to give up drugs and start a new life.

Staying clean is ever harder after rehab. Past friends become threats to you and your sobriety. Your afraid to leave your house...I dunno it's a wild journey.

Rehab may not work for everyone but it drops a lot of knowledge on the individuals there that will help them live healthier lives.

 

[tremours]

I could tell you as someone who on a regular basis is drunk or drinking most my life and since stepping up to the plate and attempting to cure my hepatitice C with new treatment, i stoped and barly give it much thought. Something i thought would devestate alot of my life, social and mostly personal, I think it does truly have to do with who you feel you are as a person, someone who can dip and dam as a friend of mine does recreationaly (whom i believe lies about the extent), or your someone who feels what they need to do for the right reasons is to stop now. If you feel you need to be commited or want be commited, its possible, otherwise your commition is succeding in attempting to have fun which i believe if gained, is very special and should be deeply cherished. I agree with what you said rabidrabbit about sending your kid to rehab if he smokes weed, as if sending your kid into a large safe, brimming with a wealth of knowldge in drug culture. I am someone who has never been to rehab, so i can only speak to this extent. Love you znegative. If anyone is curiouse about hepatitce C treatment, incivek (telaprevir), pegasys (interferon) and ribasphere (ribavirin), let me know. Ive been taking it all for two months now.

id like to hear about your experiences with interfuron, is it worth it does your health feel better overall?

 

[F1n1shed]

I havent been to rehab my self but i can see how it helps , you just have to really want it. And when you get out, you cannot go back to the same life style with the same friends. You have to change things around in your life and trigger new experiences without drugs. Im probably going to end up in a rehab soon with the way im going but i just want it to be worth it.

 

[laCster]

there are some really fun rehabs out there that actually aren't that bad...

the one i go to helps me stay sober for 90% of the day so i can function and get what needs to be done. it's so fucking weird saying this especially coming from me, but some days i can be sober and be happy at the same time