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Regional Pills/MDMA Discussion: Next Cunt to Name a Naughty Web Vendor Gets Infracted

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Yep. Typically doves would be very intense first hr after come up, mongy hug puddles eye wiggles, floating then the plateau just 4 hrs of energy and love. Was always the same go to a rave and everyone was pretty much on doves so the first couple of hrs was a messy time with loads of sitters, classic line from the MC stop rush a minute. pills ive tried now are either a gradual climb up IE Allstars and an energetic plateau fast down and you need at least one or in my case 1.5 to get going. Or it's just monged out mess from first to last with no real wish to dance your tits off.
 
I love you all!!! Orange Tealas are the best of all time. I'm still buzzing. I used to need 2 pills 6 weeks ago after Ibiza, so I started taking Piracetam and St. John's wort. It's reset my tolerance, a full one was almost too much and a 3 hour high. Tonight felt like the first time on mdma all over again.

Piracetam works!!!
 
chojek said:
I love you all!!! Orange Tealas are the best of all time. I'm still buzzing. I used to need 2 pills 6 weeks ago after Ibiza, so I started taking Piracetam and St. John's wort. It's reset my tolerance, a full one was almost too much and a 3 hour high. Tonight felt like the first time on mdma all over again.

Piracetam works!!!
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Nice =D good to hear you're having fun, enjoy man! Lets see if I can find some of those teslas
 
i hate the scene and how its become, i have a yellow rolls royce here without the (r) on the back, i remember them being soooo good, im scared to take this after the reports of orange rolls royce containing pma, any reports on the yellow ones being dodgey now? :( my mate just got some red/ pink hearts for 2.50 a peice, im worried they aint what he thinks :( anyone heard of hearts in like forever?
 
Cross post from another thread. All this MDMA is not just MDMA stuff is true. It's not. But there are a lack of things being considered.

Remember MDMA is one of the drugs you want to be racemic. It's not like methamphetamine or ketamine, where you want it to be only the positive isomer.
The quality of the cook, sure washing drugs at the end will make them purer. But I get the feeling with the sheer amount of drugs these days, that the guys making them are probably not so qualified as they were in the 90's and before. Things like timing and temperatures are a massive factor in the end product.

There is very good MDMA still being pumped out of the Netherlands. I got some the other day through a friend, it's almost white. I've not tried it yet, but somehow I don't think it is so simple as to say "the manc crew makes the best MDMA". I am a believer there is something to the reaction to the marquis kit.
 
Yes and they are Dutch. Can't really tell much from the pic mate but I'll take your word for it. From what a friend said the Dutch Lions are the best pills he had recently and he got them stupidly cheap, same friends are aware the UFO's etc were better than most of the Dutch pills. Rainbow drops apparently not the strongest, people saying they're only worth a fiver as you need to double drop...I'd be more interested to hear what the MDMA is like...
 
Have any of you guys come across brown mdma recently?? 'Dutch' by all accounts....

If so any good?

Thanks
 
red&black said:
Have any of you guys come across brown mdma recently?? 'Dutch' by all accounts....

If so any good?

Thanks
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I'm pretty sure thousands of people have come across brown MDMA, in the last day or two, never mind recently. There's no way that we can give any indication on the quality of your batch, as it's just crystals. At least with pills there's a chance of offering some insight as to what they're like...

Sidnafilisevil said:
Yes and they are Dutch. Can't really tell much from the pic mate but I'll take your word for it. From what a friend said the Dutch Lions are the best pills he had recently and he got them stupidly cheap, same friends are aware the UFO's etc were better than most of the Dutch pills. Rainbow drops apparently not the strongest, people saying they're only worth a fiver as you need to double drop...I'd be more interested to hear what the MDMA is like...
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The MDMA in the Rainbow Drops? I posted my opinion a page or two back. I think it's new stuff, and it's inferior. It could be me, but friends agreed. Still nice, but not as nice as they should be. I shall be stocking up on lions, as I enjoyed the time I tried them, but was also doing a lot of speed, which definitely affected the experience. I never expected there to be much cross-tolerance between amphetamine and MDMA, but there definitely is.
 
Where the he'll these being found? A lot of bad Toyota reports on pr ala pmma n mdma
 
Sidna: I suppose this shows my lack of chemistry knowledge, but would the addition of MDA, of the opposite isomer somehow balance things out, as it's a similar drug?
 
nice to see a MDMA/MDA combo pill again, hopefully a sign of good things to come but i doubt it.. we can pray and hope though aye? bring on the MDMA/MDA combos :|
 
Treacle said:
Sidna: I suppose this shows my lack of chemistry knowledge, but would the addition of MDA, of the opposite isomer somehow balance things out, as it's a similar drug?
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Not sure how that would work but I'd assume not. You would just get a good hit from the MDA because it was the positive for lack of a better term isomer.
Here's some links i found
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/54015-ISOMERS-of-mdma
Post number 6 on there is the best summary i believe

Valency normally refers to the charge on an ion i.e. how many electrons the neutral atom is missing or has extra. In the HCl form, the amine part of MDMA gains a + charged hydrogen from the H-Cl to give the amine a + charge, which forms an ionic bond with the negative Cl- ion.

I suggest reading some basic organic chemistry regarding isomers. Pick a book/online page etc that details isomers with good pictures. You don't have to learn it all, but a non in-depth reading will allow you to understand the terminology.


Several different types of isomers exist but not all are relevant to MDMA.


Molecules termed enantiomers, are stereoisomeric forms (isomers) related to each other as are your right and left hands. They are non superimposable images because of the shape resulting from 4 different groups attached to a chiral carbon centre.

Chirality_with_hands.jpg
Pic from wiki page on chirality


An example of a chirality is the second carbon on the alkyl branch of MDMA (yellow in below pic) that is bonded to:

1) a Nitrogen with 1 Hydrogen & a CH3 ( -NH-CH3 )
2) a Carbon with 3 hydrogens ( -CH3 )
3) a Carbon with 2 Hydrogens ( -CH2- )
4) a Hydrogen (-H )

Spatially, these 4 groups may be positioned differently. Steric repulsion allows by rotation, certain positions to be favoured, so placement of the chiral carbon and the attached groups is not random.

MDMAenantiomers.gif



The l and d or (-) and (+) designation is arrived at by by passing polarised light through one pure form. Positions of different groups will effect direction and angle of deflection. Determining this direction assigns a character L or (-) for levorotatory (lefthand ), and D or (+) for dextrorotatory ( righthand )


Another type of isomer configuration, resulting in the assignment of an R or S, is determined by priority placement of the groups attached. Viewing the carbon and attached groups as a tetrahedral with the lowest value group at the top, the order of the other three groups (lowest value to highest value priority) determines R for a right hand circular direction and S for a left.
Note that with many molecules, the R or S assignment may exist in either the (-) or (+) from. However with MDMA the (-) is the R form and the (+) is the S form.

Shulgin states as does the CRC handbook on enantiomers, that the S(+) isomer is the most potent empathy producing form in humans, by quite a degree.


Pihkal #109 MDMA

With MDMA, the usual assignments of activity to optical isomers is reversed from all of the known psychedelic drugs. The more potent isomer is the "S" isomer, which is the more potent form of amphetamine and methamphetamine. This was one of the first clear distinctions that was apparent between MDMA and the structurally related psychedelics (where the "R" isomers are the more active).

Most MDMA is (assumed to be) made from the ketone, an achiral group with a double bond to oxygen [ >C=O ] and planer in form. The N (amine)group is attached to C2 via a process known as reductive amination, givng [ >CH-NH-CH3 ]. Several variations of this reaction exist, using different reducing agents or catalysts.

Other methods that arrive at the target via different mechanisms produce a single enantiomer. Isomers can be separated by chromatography and with some enantiomer resolving agents, but it is unlikely this would be done with street intended product.


As to 32 different forms - I would think - not isomers. And although isomers possess different properties, if it ain't an isomer of MDMA it ain't MDMA. It is definitely possible there could be any of 32 different compounds (more even) in pills. Most likely things are binders, substitutes, unreacted precursors, and products of bad lab routine or side reactions occurring during the synthesis.
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Do some further reading through search. I think that post is closer to the truth and i was wrong, you don't want racemic MDMA sounds like the d- (S+) isomer is preferable (empathy, energy etc). I doubt there is any exclusively levo-MDMA (R-) but probably a mix of the two isn't as good as the positive isomer. Then on top of the mix of isomers dependance on how good your stuff is you've also good how good was the chemist with temperatures, timings etc during the synth.

You can probably safely say aswell as these threads are from 2000 and Shuglin's book before then, that MDMA is no longer really a street level product. It's made in giant labs with different precursors and synth's resulting in different end products. I think the better stuff is the positive isomer and probably if they can achieve that a better all around synth surely.

What you may be thinking of is isosafrole which can exist as two isomers, cis isosafrole and trans isosafrole. This form of isomer results from substitution across a double bond. Basically it may stick out left or right in direction. If the other end substitute is orientated in the same direction, the molecule is said to be the cis isomer. If in the opposite position it is known as the trans isomer

When the isomerisation is done to safrole both isomers are produced, but the trans isomer is more stable so is the dominant component (70:30).

From here on, whether the iso used is one isomer or the other becomes irrelevant as conversion to the ketone also produces a planer molecule which only exists in one form.

When the final reductive amination occurs, 2 isomers are produced; the (+) or d or -in this case- the S isomer, and the (-) or l or R in a 50:50 ratio.

This route, or a variation of, is the usual method used to produce MDMA. While routes and methods exist for producing a single isomer of MDMA, this is hardly ever done IMO as it would be far from economically justifiable and the market, given the choice, would prefer the 50:50 mixture anyway.
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Edit i could be wrong again. We're on the right tracks here though Treacle you are right something has changed about the way some of it is synth'd. But it would appear if you source safrole or PMK made MDMA it should be better i think after reading this?

If someone with more of a chemistry background could shed some more light on this it could maybe get to the bottom of this. I don't quite understand why he goes on to say racemic would be better. Surely the positive isomer would be better for a night out and all round stronger mg wise. I would quite like to know.
 
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That's probably a good point you've raised a page back, I doubt most of the cooks Knocking up these batches are actual chemists. You don't need a degree or even an understanding of organic chemistry if you're just making the same product all the time, I know it's not baking a Bakewell Tart but essentially it's just a recipe, learn it, follow it.. Again, may explain the rise in PMMA, some clown keeps burning the MD:D

From what I understand the synth routes aren't as complicated or as involved as they were either.
 
Yeah where illegal drugs are concerned I bet the "cooks" for a lot of things are not trained chemists. Some will be but it's not going to be 100% of them that are all trained or probably even 50% of them. I read before PMMA can be a contaminant from one method of the synth which makes sense, as why would anyone press it in pills. To kill their customers is hardly good business.
Also can anyone confirm that the Blue Heisenberg pills, not the 3D shaped ones. These are dark blue blank domed pills, but I read contain 250mg MDA. It comes with a recommendation to take 1/4 to 1/2. anyone confirm this with a saferparty or other test result?
 
Treacle said:
I've been meaning to mention marquis, for a bit. Old pills used to turn purple, then ended up a very dark purple. They didn't go straight to jet-black (actually, I do seem to recall MDA turning the test black). It's been mentioned a couple of times, by others, but no explanation has been given. Surely, if the marquis is reacting differently, it's just further evidence that the new stuff isn't the same.
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I always had a niggling feeling about this.

Honestly can't remember violent fizzing reactions and straight to black before the drought. Post drought that's all I've ever really experienced.

It's one of those things now where it's the norm. 'fizzed right to black, good gear'... goes hand in hand with 'lovely dutch banger'. We essentially live in a generation where hundreds and thousands are becoming happy with their mundane experience because they don't know any better, us that do will slowly die out unheard.

I've become massively pessimistic about the whole thing, if you couldn't tell :P
 
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