Benzos RC benzo recommendations

[Ballz_Trippington]

Haven't tried 3-HO-phenazepam, but my experience with regular phenazepam was not great... I dosed methylone, redosed once, and then eyeballed (so dumb) what I assumed was 1mg of phenazepam... next thing I know it was 3 days later, my entire 3 grams of methylone was gone as was my 1 gram of 4-MMC, and the whole 100mg bag of phenazepam was missing...never found it, no idea how much I took, no idea what happened those 3 days. My ex-wife (wife still at that time) told me I was being weird.

3ho-phenazepam is just a metabolites of regular phenazepam....but the 3ho version is wasaaaay more forgiving...in fact I wouldn't even compare the two subjectively.
The 3ho version at 3mg for provides about 6 hours of the best sleep ever (similar for me to how norfluazepam makes me sleep).
Then I wake up feeling crystal clear, no grogginess whatsoever and usually with a huge smile that lasts all day....almost feels its doing something with serotonin...but I'm just guessing by feeling not pharmacology.

 

[fugme]

Thank you all for your help, i appreciate it greatly. However, after withdrawing from etizolam again i have carefully reconsidered my questions.

1st of all since withdrawing from etizolam is really horrible experience from me (zolpidem didn't do shit to help), it would be a really bad idea to add a more recreational benzo for everyday use.

2nd i have plenty of etizolam so i don't really need another benzo for sleep, except for flunitrazolam/fluclotizolam because their very short half-life makes them useful sometimes. But if i run out it for some reason before ditching benzos at least i'll know i can resort to bromazolam.

3rd one is a question. For those of you who have withdrawed from benzos before, i assume a long-lasting benzo would be good to ward of physical symptoms of withdrawals? I have no other pain except insomnia, but even that's not too bad compared to actual physical withdrawals. Which long-lasting, but functional benzo would be the best in this scenario for etizolam? I have other sleep aids such as GABA/oleamide/magnesium, weed, diphenhydramine and baclofen so i'll get some sleep, i just need to taper as much as possible (from 6-8mg to perhaps 4mg) and then use long lasting benzo.

 

[Feretile]

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It has always amazed me that pyrazepam was never marketed as an RC. After all, it's only 1 synthetic step from bromazepam although it's about twice as potent and has significant serotonin releasing activity making it euphoric.

 

[Feretile]

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In the 1960s researchers went crazy and the above was just 1 mad idea they had.

 

[Conky]

3rd one is a question. For those of you who have withdrawed from benzos before, i assume a long-lasting benzo would be good to ward of physical symptoms of withdrawals? I have no other pain except insomnia, but even that's not too bad compared to actual physical withdrawals. Which long-lasting, but functional benzo would be the best in this scenario for etizolam? I have other sleep aids such as GABA/oleamide/magnesium, weed, diphenhydramine and baclofen so i'll get some sleep, i just need to taper as much as possible (from 6-8mg to perhaps 4mg) and then use long lasting benzo.

Can't go wrong with Diazepam, it's a great general purpose benzo

 

[Cream Gravy?]

So I've had the privilege of trying 3-Hydroxy-Phenazepam and I gotta sat that 3mg of that provides the most natural sleep I've ever had and it seems to a very very noticeable afterglow afterglow after tye initial sedation wears off that I've only ever experienced after MXE or aMT....
From my subjective experience it's the greatest benzo I've ever tried by far!

Huh... I have most of a gram of it. Went through 75mg in solution pretty fast. Found it to be very, very unremarkable. I guess everyone likes different benzos for different reasons though.

I do recall the wiki saying it has remarkably less myorelaxant properties vs phenazepam though. If a benzo ain't myorelaxant, I ain't got a use for it.

 

[fugme]

Can't go wrong with Diazepam, it's a great general purpose benzo

Thanks. Are there any RC benzo options? I don't want to go trough (major) hassle of ordering pills on DN, i do it on rare occasions for big purchases.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Thank you all for your help, i appreciate it greatly. However, after withdrawing from etizolam again i have carefully reconsidered my questions.

1st of all since withdrawing from etizolam is really horrible experience from me (zolpidem didn't do shit to help), it would be a really bad idea to add a more recreational benzo for everyday use.

2nd i have plenty of etizolam so i don't really need another benzo for sleep, except for flunitrazolam/fluclotizolam because their very short half-life makes them useful sometimes. But if i run out it for some reason before ditching benzos at least i'll know i can resort to bromazolam.

3rd one is a question. For those of you who have withdrawed from benzos before, i assume a long-lasting benzo would be good to ward of physical symptoms of withdrawals? I have no other pain except insomnia, but even that's not too bad compared to actual physical withdrawals. Which long-lasting, but functional benzo would be the best in this scenario for etizolam? I have other sleep aids such as GABA/oleamide/magnesium, weed, diphenhydramine and baclofen so i'll get some sleep, i just need to taper as much as possible (from 6-8mg to perhaps 4mg) and then use long lasting benzo.

I've actually just finished getting off Etizolam around November of last year....after losing my cat of 17 years and my mom suffering 3 strokes (I look after her now and work full time....thank God my girlfriend is a nurse!!!).
I went through vicious cycle of extreme anxiety and emotional pain which led me to do dissociatives every weekend and eventually I was taking 10mg Etizolam every single night for about a year.
At the end of thst year I quit all disso's (in fact am.tsming a year off (at least)of all recreational drugs).
But I personally found the withdrawal to be not thst bad from whst I was expecting....now I tend to have a VERY non addictive personality so my experience is most definitely ATYPICAL...but it sucked for about 2 weeks (cold turkey method for those 2 weeks)
Then I started tapering with 20mg Diazepam every night for one week then 10mg Diazepam for Tyr next then nothing....and I felt pretty much back to baseline after about 4 weeks and only 2 of those were very bad because I just stopped suddenly from a 10mg etizolam a day habit ( very dangerous as I could have had seizures).
But now I'm able to take etizolam 2 nights a week at only 2-4mg when I need to sleep for work and thsts it...
So the Diazepam was a godsend in getting of Etizolam.....if you can't get that Diclazepam would be your next best option ...I truly wish you the best of luck and if I can help you through getting off Etiz I'll be checking Bluelight....
Best Wishes
BT.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Huh... I have most of a gram of it. Went through 75mg in solution pretty fast. Found it to be very, very unremarkable. I guess everyone likes different benzos for different reasons though.

I do recall the wiki saying it has remarkably less myorelaxant properties vs phenazepam though. If a benzo ain't myorelaxant, I ain't got a use for it.

I can't comment on Wikipedia but I suffer from Eosinophilic Faciitis and I pretty much have constant muscle pain....3ho-phenazepam has the most muscle relaxing properties of any other benzo I've tried but I have no experience with regular phenzepam.
I found it to be equipment to etizolam as 2- 4mg etiz these days knocks ne out cold if I need to sleep fir work and 3-4mg 3ho-phenazepam does the sane but i feel wayyyyy better after waking up from 3ho-Phenazepam...no idea how you went through 75mg so fast....maybe it degrades I solution (unlikley) but I got mine in pressed 1mg tablets znd they are very strong at least as strong as Etizolam for me.
But its true we all metabolize drugs differently...I LOVE Diazepam....some people don't care for it.

 

[Conky]

Thanks. Are there any RC benzo options? I don't want to go trough (major) hassle of ordering pills on DN, i do it on rare occasions for big purchases.

You could look into Diclazepam

Diclazepam

Diclazepam (also known as chlorodiazepam) is a lesser-known novel depressant substance of the benzodiazepine class. It is a structural analog of diazepam (Valium) and is reported to produce similar effects.[2]

psychonautwiki.org

 

[fugme]

..

thank you for this deep and inspiring post. I also have a very non-addictive personality and consider 99% drugs i've tried as non-addictive for me, except the benzos which i use only for sleep as i have bad insomnia. That one did me in and unexpectedly so. Since i don't normally experience anxiety or panic attacks the absolute physical anxiety is extremely uncomfortable, i have no coping mechanism for it, and unlike psychological anxiety i can't make it go away. After you use benzos as a sleep-aids nothing else can really compare.

..

Thanks for both of your recommendations. I'll look into it.

 

[Feretile]

Diclazepam (and active metabolites) has a T1/2 of over a week. It undergoes N-demethylation lorazepam, 3 hydroxylation to lormeazepam and BOTH to lorazepam.

We did actually produce a homologue with a 3-trifluoromethyl moiety that was even more potent (in spite of one isomer being inactive) and tried substituting the N-methyl with an N-methylcyclopropyl so it did not undego ANY metabolism but it got stupid. People took 2mg and were still zoned out 2 weeks later.

Of course, pyrazolam was also designed not to undergo any metabolism but it was designed to be redistributed and protein bound so it could be excreted unchanged. If I had to guess at a REALLY euphoric benzo, I wouldn't go for the most potent, I would go for pyrazepam.

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You may note that it can be made in a single step from bromazepam. The reason it's so interesting is that it's a potent serotonin releasing agent and so it is very euphoric. Generally it's the nitrobenzodiazepines that are serotonin releasers (nitrazepam, nometazepam, flunitrazepam, clonazepam, nitrazolam and so on) BUT their are 2 problems:

1)Nitrobenzodiazepines are toxic. While their are multiple recorded cases of people swallowing multiple grams of diazepam and living, nitrobenzodiazepines kill. In Sweden, 76% of suicides involving poisons were due to nitrobenzodiazepines alone.

2)Nitrobenzodiazepines have a high affinity for the α1 subtype of the GABA receptor. This is one of the sites alcohol has particular affinity for and is responsible for a lot of the negative effects such as aggression, retrograde amnesia, mood lability, vertigo, syncope.

In short, all of the nitrobenzodiazpeines I have come across have a very bad side-effect profile. Replacing the pendant aromatic from a ('2-substituted) benzene to a 2-pyridine overcomes all of these problems. Although we never got around to it, a 3-trifluoromethyl will increase a5 affinity so that it's MORE like alcohol but if you want a REALLY accurate alcohol mimic, benzos will do so. I do not 'similar to', I mean EXACTLY.

It turns out that all of the positive effects of ethanol are mediated by the α5 subtype.... but that means α5β1/ α5β2 α5β3. Finding a ligand that is selective to JUST those three subtypes (from the 28 identified subtypes) is rather complex. I believe Professor James Cook - Milwaukee Institute for Drug Discovery has elucidated all 28 subtypes and even he has not found a single ligand that has the appropriate selectivity. His best bet so far?

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So good luck making that one!

 

[fugme]

If i'm not mistaken both etizolam and diclazepam are about 10x stronger than diazepam. Would that roughly translate to mg per mg ratio for etizolam and diclazepam? I plan on tapering down to 4mg etizolam and then using 4mg diclazepam.

 

[Feretile]

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And for the utterly insane - zolazolam.

As far as I know, nobody has ever made this compound. Zolazepam isn't actually the most potent benzodiazepam but it has a relatively low LogP which means it is absorbed and crosses the BBB much faster than any other benzodiazepine. It's only encountered as a admixture with tiletamine in a combination called Telazol - used to knock out elephants, Giraffes & Hippos.

So adding the triazolo ring will increase the LogP a little, but it's still sufficiently water soluble to allow parenteral administration.

 

[Feretile]

If i'm not mistaken both etizolam and diclazepam are about 10x stronger than diazepam. Would that roughly translate to mg per mg ratio for etizolam and diclazepam? I plan on tapering down to 4mg etizolam and then using 4mg diclazepam.

Etizolam has a high affinity but low efficacy. Consider it to be somewhat like a partial agonist. Their is a ceiling effect. I read this in a few places and so for the sake of science (and because someone asked me if the Kg of powder he had bought WAS etizolam) I snorted 100mg of it.

I really do not do these 'gung ho' stories but this did happen. If I had taken 100mg of diazepam, I doubt I would have been able to stand. With 100mg of etizolam I was able to walk down to the shops and so on.

So upto a certain dose, it's effective, above that dose, it doesn't do mote. I think that it's a GOOD idea, especially now we have morons making things like flobromazolam and what have you. Crazy dangerous stuff. Etizolam seems safe although do not mix withother CNS depressants or it could be very bad news.

 

[Feretile]

BTW I note that etizolam costs $5100/Kg!

 

[axe battler]

Any RC benzos that could potentially be similar to the infamous nimetazepam?

 

[Feretile]

Flunitrazolam, I presume. Of course, flunitrazepam releases a lot of serotonin and so is almost uniquely euphoric.

There are some quite obvious analogues (I can think of 4) but the synthesis is more involved.

 

[JackARoe]

Etizolam is supposed to have a 5 year shelf life but ime drugs don't really go off and any loss of effects tend to be more placebo.

I recently took an etizolam (Etizest) tablet from 2013 and not only was it just as active but it felt stronger. Though I will stop at the point saying they get stronger. Could be because it had been weeks since I had any but I never had any tolerance anyway. The tablet was in a utensil drawer so must have fallen in there years ago. So when I was going to dig out the utensils it was under one of the holders.

Most meds don't lose potency. I know we have had these discussions. I think it is important to ask what would a substance decompose into? Antibiotics are one of the biggest offenders at losing potency and becoming useless. Even aspirin which gets that vinegar odor after years works, even though it does break down. (can't think of the members name but he qrote up exactly why aspirin has a vinegar odor after some years in another thread)

Anyway I will update my thoughts on fluclotiozlam when I review it. Etizolam seems much less available although can be had. But just as I suspected there are avenues for a lot of things and no amount of banning will stop that. Again, we are a clever species.

 

[fugme]

Diclazepam (2'-chlorodiazepam) has been recommended a lot on the internet for tapering.
What about Ro5-4864 (4'-chlorodiazepam) or gidazepam/desalkylgidazepam or pagoclone - has anyone tried them, for tapering purposes or otherwise? i'd greatly appreciate any input!