Kratom Questions for those who have used Kratom long term (a year or more) especially for mental health

[emkee_reinvented]

1) I've never gotten good at tapering (never really tried) and I'm almost completely non-functional when I'm in WD. I'll either get hypersomnia and be sleeping constantly and always tired, or I'll get insomnia and be tired for that reason. Also, the WD lasts longer than it ever used to. It now doesn't show up till like day 4 or 5 and seems to last about 10 days. I'm always just stopping cold turkey and I know if I want to work it into my life I'd have to learn to taper.

With little experience with extracts i am actually good at stopping Kratom.
Even when addicted to it was manageable. But my dosing function-able a limited amount of doses a day. especially atm. Used to take way more.

I'm thinking I could just let myself get dependent and practice tapering, but is that a good idea? I'm not sure it is...

Tapering for me was more pleasant. But taking break s inevitable. Kratom doesn t work for me when taken 24/ 7 longer then, taking a guess now, 2 months.
And I get lethargic and depressed.

2) Do you guys feel like the longer you've been dependent the worse the WDs are, or is there a part where it sort of evens out? Like, the most days I've ever taken it in a row is 17, and I didn't find the WD to be worse than when I take it for like 5 days in a row. Cause if the longer you take it the worse the WDs get, to the extent that like, say, if you've taken it 2 months in a row you're going to have MUCH worse WD that lasts weeks, then that's no bueno.

Ime the WD s are not bad. Comparing with GHB and especially Alcohol.

But Kratom forces me to either dose no more the 3/ 4 times a day. 3 gram. Or when using a extract it s a wild guess.

3) I usually can't sleep unless it's worn off like 5 hours prior to bedtime. This is a problem most don't have. A lot of people say they can't sleep WITHOUT taking it. However, for some weird reason like a few months ago I had a couple days where it didn't cause that problem. I don't know why, but this is hard to work around. Any advice?

Used to help me sleep. Now it doesn t. Why circumstances. I used to be a good sleeper. Then became insomniac. So if i take Kratom now it helps relax while being awake in the night.

I prefer lying awake under influence

4) I don't want bad long term effects. Like, I'll openly admit that I've developed some bladder issues where I wake up to piss like 3 times a night, and SOME people have theorized that this is because of Kratom and that it damages the bladder. There are posts on here where people say that it does this, but does it really? Could my bladder issues be unrelated? (And it's NOT BPH. I've had it checked with a urologist).

What s your age ? i piss at least 2 times a night, But hey i don t wet my bed.

I just don't want to find out some day that I've got weird issues cause of it, but then again, all drugs have side effects. I'm dependent on Klonopin which is more addictive and know I'll have to get off someday. But Kratom has like over 50 alkaloids and we just don't know what they do.

5) I'm afraid of doctors finding out I use it and that I could need drugs that interact negatively. I refuse to tell any doctor I have used Kratom. This is especially the case cause I got a prescription for naltrexone years ago in order to be able to force myself to take breaks, and it works really well so long as I make sure that I am COMPLETELY through the WD before taking it because obviously you can get precipitated WD.

Overhear it s equaled to Heroin so maybe keep it to yourself [hint]

I now somewhat regret that doctors can see on my chart that I am prescribed it. If anyone ever asks (I've only been asked like once or twice) I'd say it's for alcohol and that my alcohol problems are now under control. That way IF they were considering prescribing an opiate for pain they wouldn't necessarily deny me, but that is a concern, especially cause I do martial arts and have had several injuries and I know I'm gonna have arthritis in my knees and I also have cervical disk disease in my neck.

Mentioning Alcohol problem s to a dr. a guaranteed way [overhear] to not get the right medical treatment. For whatever. Anxiety/ Insomnia/ Epilepsy. Or a wrong diagnose.

"it was the Booze"

So yeah, Kratom use is less the issue if I am not ALWAYS dependent like right now, but I could see it being an issue if I can't get off it and I'm questioned by doctors in a situation where i might need their help for something that could interact negatively with Kratom.

6) It's always being banned in different states. I've stocked up, but for some reason most of what I have isn't that effective, which is odd since I bought those kilos from a vendor that was ranked as like #3 in the US. But I don't like the idea of being dependent on it and knowing it could suddenly be taken away.

The Kratom from the 'source' Indonesia. Was about 2 gram. The vendor i buy now about 3 equivalent. But the [online] headshops easy 4 for the same effect s.

Freshness my guess and quality.
As the vendor i order sources from the the same one i used to order in Indonesia.

7) I do martial arts like BJJ, and that has caused me to develop cervical disk disease in my neck. I get neck pain daily and do PT 5 days a week, and I've only done BJJ while on kratom a select number of times. It's never been an issue, but my concern is that I could potentially be less aware of what does and doesn't hurt and push myself too hard and get another injury.

Thought the same thing. Bluelight replied that there is no such thing as overexercising. And waking up with more pain the normally.

Did experience that phenomenon. Not doing martial arts but a steady 24/ 7 schedule.
Physically mentally active. Sometimes the thought occurs get a good pillow.

No clue where it came from but i don t think indeed you can overexercise that easy.
But you are less aware of your boundaries. Helpful, but not during sports.

Do you guys think that's likely or do you think Kratom isn't SUCH a strong pain killer that usually if I was doing something that really hurt too much that I'd realize and stop doing that particular movement?

Anyway, those are most of my concerns. I'm thinking I could try an experiment where I just let myself become dependent on Kratom (Only plain leaf so I'd have to stop extracts and get my tolerance down) and then practice tapering off. I'm thinking that maybe if I became super confident in tapering and felt that I could function ok while in the middle of a taper that I'd be less concerned about dependency.

First time i used Kratom was for a intensive dental. This Netherlands we don t do painkiller s or sedatives. You endure. Wow found Kratom. It tilted the pain at it s footsteps. I overdosed off course. 1/ 2 the recommend dose.

So obvious i am a lightweight.

Weird for me the whole leaf powder gives about as much wd/ but totally different as Cannabis. Ime
so essentially it stay s effective. Kept killing pain even when taken abundant. Just needed a bit more. Forgiving ime.

but never gotten to much into extract s. The order that s gonna be delivered tomorrow.
Has one but it s not that much stronger then whole leaf. hard to say. but it is less nauseating

Cause when a good dose of Kratom hits it's like I barely even have anxiety or depression. I feel like I'd be capable of so much more in life because of how much it improves my state of mind.

But no matter how many times I hope that I can pull it off, each time I get dependent on Kratom I inevitably find out that it stops working, I then stop and go into WD, and that it just doesn't work as a daily medication for me. The analgesic pain killing effects will continue to work, but the mood boost just doesn't.

You defenintly either need to learn to taper or restrict yourself. I am bad at the first mainly i go 'cold turkey' and restrict myself. Used to take way more then now.
But that might be because it was more then 1/ 2 cheaper from the source.

Or circumstances. But i love Kratom very benign. More addicting then Methoxetamine and Pregabalin. Which i also used 24/ 7. But certainly more function-able.

At the very least I will enjoy it from time to time, but it's so frustrating not being able to just use it medicinally. Maybe I just haven't tried hard enough to become confident in tapering and functioning while on a taper. That would certainly help.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated.

It feels less dangerous then o-DSMT or even Tramadol to me. Got no real other material to contrast it with. Opiod s. Certainly better then Alcohol or Benzo s imo.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I'm pretty surprised you feel confident in telling your doctors about your use. I definitely don't and feel they'd stigmatize me.

Of course, there's unfortunately more reason for that because years ago when I was drinking a lot and using a lot of Kratom and other stuff like Dexadrine and Phenibut I ended up going to an addiction psychiatrist and got her to prescribe me Naltrexone. Basically I thought, "wouldn't it be cool to be able to just FORCE myself to take a break from Kratom or drinking whenever I want and not have to use will power?" (Aside from not being dependent on it when you take the Naltrexone cause then you'll get precipitated WD.) And I really have felt that Naltrexone has been helpful cause if I'm on it I just won't even try to drink or use Kratom cause psychologically I just realize they won't have any effect.

Prescribed dextro-Amphetamine myself. My MD/ HomeDoctor. Who prolong s the script. Since time immemorial way before that dr. came in picture.

But now any time any doctor looks on their computer at my chart they will see naltrexone on my list of medications. I've only had to answer why I use it like once or twice and I said that I used to have a drinking problem so I asked a doc for it but now it's under control, but, on a different note:

Read this and thought that little bird dr knows am i stigmatized Yeah probably.
Shit happen s. serious, it is fucked but there are good dr s. For the time being fuck em.

not word ruminating but i do get it. Crazy working on assumption or auto-pilot

4) How have your doctors reacted when you told them you took Kratom? They never told you they thought it was dangerous or stigmatized you as an "addict" in any way?

My att Alcohol ... bla bla bla coach ? Looked it up.
Local government funded drug site. Said equal to Heroine.

'They' also have GHB/ GBL addict s detox with their own 'drain-cleaner' product.
Medical authority s at least till 2020. Which is absurd imo.

Why not use Xyrem, brand name narcolepsy drug: GHB.
He looked it up, and looked at me ...



No anxiety experience then the natural form.
Kratom was great for depressive feeling s. And keep on going.
NRG but also sedation and if necessary painkilling.

Nothing better then a dose when you have the Flu, maybe some MJ too.


Never ever taken Kratom without a other substance btw afair.
Naturally.

 

[agoraphobe]

My mental health was unaffected at two days per week usage but deteriorated a bit when I went to 3 days weekly usage.

Spacing is essential with so many drugs.

 

[Mycophile]

Prescribed dextro-Amphetamine myself. My MD/ HomeDoctor. Who prolong s the script. Since time immemorial way before that dr. came in picture.

Read this and thought that little bird dr knows am i stigmatized Yeah probably.
Shit happen s. serious, it is fucked but there are good dr s. For the time being fuck em.

not word ruminating but i do get it. Crazy working on assumption or auto-pilot


My att Alcohol ... bla bla bla coach ? Looked it up.
Local government funded drug site. Said equal to Heroine.

'They' also have GHB/ GBL addict s detox with their own 'drain-cleaner' product.
Medical authority s at least till 2020. Which is absurd imo.

Why not use Xyrem, brand name narcolepsy drug: GHB.
He looked it up, and looked at me ...



No anxiety experience then the natural form.
Kratom was great for depressive feeling s. And keep on going.
NRG but also sedation and if necessary painkilling.

Nothing better then a dose when you have the Flu, maybe some MJ too.


Never ever taken Kratom without a other substance btw afair.
Naturally.

Hey man. Thanks for responding. Unfortunately, I don't know how to multi-quote, and some of the things you said in both this post and your last one were confusing to me. Perhaps it's cause Dutch is your first language I'd assume since you said you were from the Netherlands. By the way, I know Amsterdam is just one city, but I had the best time of my life there about 20 years ago.

So yeah, I'm gonna copy and paste the parts of your posts that were confusing to me below and then comment below that, and I'm going to bold the stuff that got me anxious cause you know I'm an anxious dude which is why I love Kratom lol:

"Overhear it s equaled to Heroin so maybe keep it to yourself [hint]
Mentioning Alcohol problem s to a dr. a guaranteed way [overhear] to not get the right medical treatment. For whatever. Anxiety/ Insomnia/ Epilepsy. Or a wrong diagnose.

"it was the Booze"

Read this and thought that little bird dr knows am i stigmatized Yeah probably.
Shit happen s. serious, it is fucked but there are good dr s. For the time being fuck em.

not word ruminating but i do get it. Crazy working on assumption or auto-pilot

My att Alcohol ... bla bla bla coach ? Looked it up.
Local government funded drug site. Said equal to Heroine.

'They' also have GHB/ GBL addict s detox with their own 'drain-cleaner' product.
Medical authority s at least till 2020. Which is absurd imo.

Why not use Xyrem, brand name narcolepsy drug: GHB.
He looked it up, and looked at me ...

No anxiety experience then the natural form.
Kratom was great for depressive feeling s. And keep on going.
NRG but also sedation and if necessary painkilling."


Ok, so I just started getting kind of freaked out especially with you saying this:

Mentioning Alcohol problem s to a dr. a guaranteed way [overhear] to not get the right medical treatment. For whatever. Anxiety/ Insomnia/ Epilepsy. Or a wrong diagnose.

"it was the Booze"


Like, I know this is your opinion but I cannot ever change the fact that I have had a naltrexone prescription in the past. I mean I still technically have one but I haven't filled it in forever and I may never need to cause I don't use it much and I have so many bottles. But I AM getting Klonopin, prozac and Wellbutrin still from the same Doctor who prescribes me Naltrexone so you aren't totally correct.

In fact, he once said he doesn't believe I have an alcohol problem. He said "why do you take Naltrexone? Because you know if you had a real alcohol problem you would just drink anyway."

I think I just said "I don't know, I just like having it."

So at least HE PERSONALLY is not going to deny me the right meds because of my supposed "booze problem" that I don't even think I really have, but I do worry about other doctors in the future. Then again, if you are so injured that you are in a hospital and need opioid painkillers there then they can watch you and make sure you don't "abuse" them so I would think they would be willing, not to mention there are many other non-opioid ways to kill pain like nerve blocks, ketamine, higher dose Tylenol and Naproxen, Lidocaine, and various other stuff.

BUT...these days in the U.S. (Not sure about where you are) people aren't really prescribed pain meds much anymore anyway cause of the opioid crisis, so maybe I don't need to worry, and at least I have Kratom, except I can't sleep on Kratom, so that would be a problem with injuries...

But then you said this:

"Read this and thought that little bird dr knows am i stigmatized Yeah probably.
Shit happen s. serious, it is fucked but there are good dr s. For the time being fuck em.

not word ruminating but i do get it. Crazy working on assumption or auto-pilot"

Here did you mean to say "not worth ruminating" rather than "word"?

Thanks cause yeah, I mean, what can we do right??

And I think you were also saying that actually there are good doctors who WILL prescribe pain meds if you REALLY need them badly. Is that what you were saying?

I hope so cause I have been injured so many times. Without them I wouldn't be able to sleep through some injuries and would have to find some special form of Kratom I could sleep on or just be so fucking tired that I'd sleep anyway...so that's not reassuring LOL.

I have a new young primary doctor so I think if it ever came down to me really NEEDING pain killers and he asked about the Naltrexone that I might be able to have an honest conversation with him WITHOUT mentioning Kratom and only saying "I once thought I had a drinking problem and asked for it, but I don't think I do anymore, and you can ask my psychiatrist to vouch for me," (and I believe my psychiatrist probably would...) and I might be able to get what I need if I'm actually in SERIOUS pain...

With the "equal to heroin" comments were you saying that where you live that's what people think? That's SO STUPID cause it is so very mild. But yeah, doctors here will prescribe suboxone and methadone for it which is FUCKED UP and then they'll get you addicted to MUCH harder opioids. I'm glad I asked bluelight when a doctor tried to do it to me and refused the suboxone.

I don't know what you were trying to say about your "alcohol coach"? or what "att" means, and what were you saying about "GHB/GBL and Xyrem"? Never heard of Xyrem.

And what does "NRG" mean? "Not really good"? Or AI said it can mean "giving high energy."

I just really hope that having that Naltrexone prescription never comes back to haunt me. I'm going to have arthritis in my knees in a few years I've been told and my neck problems are never going away and will probably get worse so I can't imagine doctors refusing to prescribe effective pain killers, and I mean, what if I fucking got burned or some shit??!!! I'd DEMAND painkillers then...

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Like, I know this is your opinion but I cannot ever change the fact that I have had a naltrexone prescription in the past. I mean I still technically have one but I haven't filled it in forever and I may never need to cause I don't use it much and I have so many bottles. But I AM getting Klonopin, prozac and Wellbutrin still from the same Doctor who prescribes me Naltrexone so you aren't totally correct.

In fact, he once said he doesn't believe I have an alcohol problem. He said "why do you take Naltrexone? Because you know if you had a real alcohol problem you would just drink anyway."

I think I just said "I don't know, I just like having it."

So at least HE PERSONALLY is not going to deny me the right meds because of my supposed "booze problem" that I don't even think I really have, but I do worry about other doctors in the future. Then again, if you are so injured that you are in a hospital and need opioid painkillers there then they can watch you and make sure you don't "abuse" them so I would think they would be willing, not to mention there are many other non-opioid ways to kill pain like nerve blocks, ketamine, higher dose Tylenol and Naproxen, Lidocaine, and various other stuff.

BUT...these days in the U.S. (Not sure about where you are) people aren't really prescribed pain meds much anymore anyway cause of the opioid crisis, so maybe I don't need to worry, and at least I have Kratom, except I can't sleep on Kratom, so that would be a problem with injuries...

Dutch all the way, btw. And my grammar spelling ... translator s daily.
Auto correct my not best but good help.

When reading the thread it occurred my 'dr. Bird', general practitioner.
Most probably has a on assumption based opinion about me.
ADHD, Alcohol problems in my dossier. Addicted to Benzo s.
Which i never been addicted to. And who knows what.
Medically it s not favoring me.

Even had my old dossier destroyed a clean start. Didn t help maybe even aided in
A forming a biased opinion in 6 year s about me.
Hard to get essential med s for me. Insomnia since somewhere 2020.
Seizure s, caused by stress that fucked my night rest.
Are denied, and since RC were banned no more DIY.
Your dr. sounds a bit better then mine.

Most people don t have a Alcohol problem imo they have a problem.
And self medicate with Booze as it the most available and legal.
If Heroin would be OTC, no experience with it, that would be my 1st choice.
I ll settle with Kratom for the time being.

Good dr s do excist. Got a Opiate prescription once in my whole live. 50 +
Broken collar bone. Flabbergasted had broken bones before and after.
Had dental procedure s that needed strong painkiller s.
But dentist don t prescribe Opiods. Period.
OXYCODONE. 3 x 5 mg. 84 tab s. Didn t abuse them as they were certainly needed.
So still don t know what a Oxy high is, maybe for the better. Loved o-DSMT.

Something unique prescribed a Opioid. Or Benzo s, even Stimulant s seem to have a stigma attached. dr. Bird said why don t you stop. I did for a while. Then had to use brutal force to get it restarted as my life without went down the drain.

These substances can leed to trouble s. But it s weid to assume it before it happen s when you are a dr, and use that as reason to not prescribe and leave people suffering.

The reason i mentioned that addiction/ healthcare professional here believe oral Kratom is in the same realm as IV-ed or based Heroin.
And don t know XYREM is prescription GHB/. Which can be used to have people detox medically. That to me seem like idiots-y

to be continued Mycophile

 

[emkee_reinvented]

But then you said this:

"Read this and thought that little bird dr knows am i stigmatized Yeah probably.
Shit happen s. serious, it is fucked but there are good dr s. For the time being fuck em.

not word ruminating but i do get it. Crazy working on assumption or auto-pilot"

Here did you mean to say "not worth ruminating" rather than "word"?

Worth was the correct on, typed it on auto pilot.

My reply s don t even match what i quoted from you.
Not a Multi-quote: The "quote" button at the bottom of the post s is for that.
Click it and its added to multi quote. Later after selecting them there is a message insert multi-quote. [or something like that] think it appear s under the bottom reply.
Test it in a test thread to get a hang of it.

When replying to one person you can break it into bit size chunk s.
By hitting enter. Like this.

Thanks cause yeah, I mean, what can we do right??

And I think you were also saying that actually there are good doctors who WILL prescribe pain meds if you REALLY need them badly. Is that what you were saying?

When dying here they do seem to give strong painkillers. Tramadol used to be handed out, but even that is restricted. Good thing as it horrible shit ime. Kratom is better.