Question about heroin?

[adder]

I've never actually argued with you about that fact. But here is another thing you brought up. Bayer had been looking for a painkiller less addictive than morphine. Heroin was synthesized. It was very widespread almost as a panacea. It took them over a decade to withdraw heroin from the market. I don't think anyone knew at that time heroin synthesized from morphine is actually metabolized by human body to the parent drug.

It's not all about my opinion. It's more about the perspective because here there is no debate, there are no many theories. But you can't simply put an equation mark between heroin and morphine because heroin even being a pro-drug for morphine has different pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. Also, morphine injected (which I always preferred so maybe I should stand by your simplification) and morphine as a metabolite of heroin bring a bit different effects. If it all was like you put it out, there should be no difference in medicine between giving someone heroin or morphine for pain, they're equally good for pain management. I must say that heroin has been stigmatized and that's one of the reasons why it's not marketed for pain. And once again the US lies to us by stating in the CSA that for heroin "there is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision". But then again is there really a need for a drug so similar to morphine that choosing between those two would probably be dependent on physicians' mood.

 

[kokaino]

Verso said it best when this was posted by him/her:

And heroin does become a whole different animal when you IV it. People talk about "the rush," right? It's always "the rush" that people seem to chase. Well, to experience that rush, you need to IV heroin. Why? Because heroin metabolizes very, very quickly into morphine, and morphine does not cross the bbb as quickly as heroin. In other words, heroin is like morphine in a sports car. When a user IVs heroin, heroin reaches their brain before metabolizing into morphine. Then it does the Trojan Horse thing, metabolizes into morphine and fills those connectors in the brain all at once -- that's "the rush." Snorting heroin, my preferred roa, results in heroin's metabolizing into morphine before reaching the brain. So, it's essentially like taking morphine. I feel good, real good, but there's no "rush" really.

Have you read the study below:

In controlled studies comparing the physiological and subjective effects of injected heroin and morphine in individuals formerly addicted to opiates, subjects showed no preference for one drug over the other. Equipotent, injected doses had comparable action courses, with no difference in subjects' self-rated feelings of euphoria, ambition, nervousness, relaxation, drowsiness, or sleepiness. Short-term addiction studies by the same researchers demonstrated that tolerance developed at a similar rate to both heroin and morphine. When compared to the opioids hydromorphone, fentanyl, oxycodone, and pethidine/meperidine, former addicts showed a strong preference for heroin and morphine, suggesting that heroin and morphine are particularly susceptible to abuse and addiction. Morphine and heroin were also much more likely to produce euphoria and other positive subjective effects when compared to these other opioids.

The reason is because when you take heroin, you end up high on morphine. 6MAM is a very, very minor metabolite which itself is quickly converted back into morphine.

 

[K'd-OUT-in-AZ]

While I enjoy both drugs, I prefer heroin only because it seems to hit me faster after intravenous administration. Otherwise the effects feel similar, Morphine maybe a little more sedating. But I can't say whether doses I've used were equipotent when comparing the two as I've IV'd heroin many more times than I have Morphine so its harder for my comparisons to be spot on.

 

[kokaino]

While I enjoy both drugs, I prefer heroin only because it seems to hit me faster after intravenous administration. Otherwise the effects feel similar, Morphine maybe a little more sedating. But I can't say whether doses I've used were equipotent when comparing the two as I've IV'd heroin many more times than I have Morphine so its harder for my comparisons to be spot on.

Heroin doesn't exist in the body and it has very, very weak affinity to the mu receptors. Heroin is the morphine molecule with 2 acetyl groups, when those groups break off you're left with morphine. Morphine is the drug that binds to the receptors and gets you high. It's just that the acetyl groups make the morphine molecule quicker acting so it drives morphine across the BBB faster than morphine would on its own. It's a morphine prodrug. 6MAM is a very, very minor metabolite that doesn't even bind to any receptors until it too is converted into morphine. Heroin=quicker form of morphine. Morphine diacetate is "heroin", di-acetyl-morphine is "heroin", acetylated morphine is "heroin", and diamorphine is "heroin".

There is no such thing as heroin, it only exists in the external. It's morphine that you get high off of when you use heroin.

 

[K'd-OUT-in-AZ]

Heroin doesn't exist in the body and it has very, very weak affinity to the mu receptors. Heroin is the morphine molecule with 2 acetyl groups, when those groups break off you're left with morphine. Morphine is the drug that binds to the receptors and gets you high. It's just that the acetyl groups make the morphine molecule quicker acting so it drives morphine across the BBB faster than morphine would on its own. It's a morphine prodrug. 6MAM is a very, very minor metabolite that doesn't even bind to any receptors until it too is converted into morphine. Heroin=quicker form of morphine. Morphine diacetate is "heroin", di-acetyl-morphine is "heroin", acetylated morphine is "heroin", and diamorphine is "heroin".

There is no such thing as heroin, it only exists in the external. It's morphine that you get high off of when you use heroin.

I'm well aware of this. But heroin is my choice. If I had the choice of a Morphine ampule or some pure dope I'd go with the heroin, it hits me quicker, therefor providing a more desirable rush. But its been awhile since I've IV'd Morphine so its hard for me to be completely accurate in my decision.

 

[kokaino]

I'm well aware of this. But heroin is my choice. If I had the choice of a Morphine ampule or some pure dope I'd go with the heroin, it hits me quicker, therefor providing a more desirable rush. But its been awhile since I've IV'd Morphine so its hard for me to be completely accurate in my decision.

Everyone would choose the quicker acting form of morphine, I would too. I'm getting high off morphine quicker. Morphine diacetate (heroin) is faster acting than morphine sulfate. I'd pick morphine diacetate over morphine sulfate also.

 

[thelonegunman]

true, Being a opiate addict and alcoholic I can say one thing.

I cant get drunk at work everyday whats the alternative

Though I will say opiates make me work extra hard at work and a better employee

Opiates make me do everything better, easier, more energentically (A word?) , and happier. Calmer. Much more tolerant.

I am 43 and remember my first percocet. 5mg. You know the feeling, if you've gotten buzzed on any opiate, you know what I mean. You hit that point after about 10-20 minutes and all of a sudden you get that little ***ping*** behind your ear. Everything seems ok, and possible. And I get to doing it.

Then one day you get your Rx for 120 roxies for the month and they don't last till the 4th day. What happened? I dunno about the four days, but on the 5th day I was burnt. I slept well into the sixth day. Woke up depressed, confused.
MORE OPIATES! MORE! MORE! I WANT MORE! It's not fair!!! Why can't i have all the opiates in the world? I'm sitting at my computer looking at pictures of H and oxys. Why? The love affair/addiction/dependence and habit are all out of control.

Doesn't mean I don't love opiates, tho. And I have no moderation gene, so I just take what I know will do the job, every time. But after my scrip runs out and I can buy any during those dry times, I have to chill . This is good for me in many ways, I know, but I avoid the withdrawal like the Plague. Suboxone is my friend.

Full time job. Going round in circles = addiction

 

[K'd-OUT-in-AZ]

Once I tried Heroin I never looked back. Vicodin, Demerol, Codeine, Tramadol, Propoxyphene...all stuff that no longer could get me high. I needed high doses of oxycodone or other drugs I could shoot up like oxymorphone, hydromorphone and morphine. Well, I got pretty caught up shooting oxymorphone, as I actually started to enjoy it more than the heroin but then I ran out and was back on a run with heroin. You get so caught up doing dope nothing else matters. People, places, situations...nothing. IV opiates tore my life apart and I lost everything, my house, car, personal possessions.