Prolonged Negative Effects of LSD Use
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folias
Bluelighter
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I'm sorry, but that is my perspective and the overwhelming one of most all experienced people I know bar one or two.
I've been into this on this board, and believe that the labels we use to identify molecules do differentiate between subtle and not so subtle qualities between different batches.
For me, it is a totally different world between LSD batches... and the experienced engendered by different batches is often entirely different.
btw, I recently did synthetic mescaline... and it was totally, totally different and not because it was more "pure" than natural mescaline.
Julian.
theWorldWithin
Bluelighter
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Psychedelic experiences are by nature highly variable so different batches are not an issue whatsoever. Only one of the four isomers even active (D isomer). Additionally unless you are taking outrageously high doses of LSD then there could not be enough contaminants in a dose to alter your trip, LSD is more potent than just about any other psychoactive. Take for example an excessive calls to the wall trip of 1000 ug's. That means if you ingest 1 milligram of LSD only a fraction of the number can be contaminanats, can you please point me to some possible cantaminating agents that would be even threshold active at the sub miligram dosage range? Didn't think so, please save that bullshit for people who still believe cyanide is in blotters or LSD gets inbedded in their spines because its just another peice of dirty hippie folklore.
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Bluelighter
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theWorldWithin said:
Not to mention that most of the byproducts aren't psychoactive at all, and are usually just poison at high doses, but by high I mean tens of miligrams at least, usually higher.
tobala
Bluelight Crew
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Don't care much for dirty hippies I take it?theWorldWithin said:
As a nit-picking aside, I believe the folklore--even amongst those hippies who did wash--dictated that arsenic and speed might be--at no additional charge--included with your blotter, but I haven't yet heard about cyanide-impregnated hits. And--oh dear!--if anyone does take one, please put it up on trip reports! I must know how cyanide spins the trip!
I know, I know.....you need dozens or even a hundred milligrams of cyanide salt to kill you by oral administration, and that won't fit on a blotter. Mantra, mantra...
burn out said:
LSD has never killed anyone in a reasonable dosage range. I'm not sure some vaguely reported case of someone allegedly injecting a massive overdose is the same thing.
Taking a drug is not the same thing as taking an enormous overdose of a drug. They're seperate events and shouldn't be compared.
folias
Bluelighter
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that's right.
I could write a few hundreds words about it... but the first difference I noticed is that I felt the substance right away. There was a kind of pressure in my head, in my body, a straining magnetism? Not entirely comfortable... and EXACTLY the same experience that I have right after I take a synthetic phenethylamine.
I have never got that same feeling from any form of natural mescaline.
Having gotten a grip on the innate variability of one's experiences, one can then determine innate differences between batches.
And I don't believe this has anything at all to do with contaminants, but innate differences within the nature of the LSD.
If you believe a whole group of LSD molecules are only molecules, then to you, that is the end of the story. There are no more dimensions to it, that is all it is - the description and label we give to it. This is commonly called reductionism.
If you believe this, you are defeating the purpose of reductionism, by believing the reduced version as the truth, rather than a very limited and reduced story and description that allows your puny human mind to have a semblance of an understanding of a small fragment of a reference point which describes the "nature" of your experience.
AND if you believe that short and sharp description your mind can use to understand something, is the truth of the matter and the whole truth and the only truth - then perhaps you may have indoctrinated into some bleached white cotton Nurse Ratshit fundamentalist folklore!
So in this case, the medicine at hand with its "mind expanding" powers, appears to be no longer effacious for the patient, or they just can't get quality stuff! ;-)
Julian.
in regards to different batches of lsd being different, of course it seems to make sense that it wouldn't be true and it would all be due to variations in dosage and user experiences. however, there are other things to consider. for example, some users will report definite differences between different batches which they can easily tell apart, even if their friends dose them and they don't know which batch they are getting. i'm not sure if anyone has gone through the trouble of setting up a double blind test but even if only single blind tests have been done and people can correctly tell the difference over and over again, it makes one think.
here is a link to an article on erowid on the issue: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_info8.shtml
and this has also been discussed here before as well, anyone feel free to do a search and report back with your findings and interpretations.
here is a link to an article on erowid on the issue: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_info8.shtml
and this has also been discussed here before as well, anyone feel free to do a search and report back with your findings and interpretations.
Blah blah blah. Quit arguing. It doesn't help the OP with his goal of gaining information. Well, maybe kinda, but you guys all sound really grumpy.
To the OP: My first time doing acid was *terrible*. I was in a tent with 3 friends. J was drinking and smoking pot and doing whip-its, as was S. N was on the same amount (2 geltabs) of acid as I was, also his first time. He was also drinking, smoking, and doing whip-its. I was just smoking and doing the acid. J got drunk enough to think it was funny to be an ass and fuck with me all night, N was on a whole different world from us, and S is just kinda a weird person to begin with. I took the hits at like midnight, even though I had to work at 8 am. So, set and setting out the window completely. Terrible terrible trip. Spent most of the night panicking and freaking out, thinking I was gonna go totally insane and be stuck that way forever. Horribly frightening. Also kept feeling like I was going to implode. Didn't realize it at the time, but I had been in a terrible mood due to life not working out the way I would have liked it at the time. I had been a total ass to everyone around me for like 2 weeks prior, without even really realizing it. Terrible trip. Pulled myself outta it by about 7ish (mostly, anyway. As a side note, N stayed in my tent and tripped balls for like...most of the entire next day). About 7, when I walked outside to take a piss, I had a total, mind-blowing epiphany about what an ass id been lately, among other things. Learned a *lot* from the whole thing, especially that 30-second wrap-up of the entire night that culminated in the epiphany. Even though it was terrible (and like 7 months later I had a rather upsetting flashback from that night, even after i'd had good acid trips), I knew then that I loved acid, and went back to it, multiple times. After the first time, I just knew that acid could be so much more, so I wasn't afraid to try it again. Now, I had no desire to go back to it right away, and didn't for a few months, but that was almost more a factor of availability then my desire to do it. I was wanting to do it again within like a month or two.
To the OP: My first time doing acid was *terrible*. I was in a tent with 3 friends. J was drinking and smoking pot and doing whip-its, as was S. N was on the same amount (2 geltabs) of acid as I was, also his first time. He was also drinking, smoking, and doing whip-its. I was just smoking and doing the acid. J got drunk enough to think it was funny to be an ass and fuck with me all night, N was on a whole different world from us, and S is just kinda a weird person to begin with. I took the hits at like midnight, even though I had to work at 8 am. So, set and setting out the window completely. Terrible terrible trip. Spent most of the night panicking and freaking out, thinking I was gonna go totally insane and be stuck that way forever. Horribly frightening. Also kept feeling like I was going to implode. Didn't realize it at the time, but I had been in a terrible mood due to life not working out the way I would have liked it at the time. I had been a total ass to everyone around me for like 2 weeks prior, without even really realizing it. Terrible trip. Pulled myself outta it by about 7ish (mostly, anyway. As a side note, N stayed in my tent and tripped balls for like...most of the entire next day). About 7, when I walked outside to take a piss, I had a total, mind-blowing epiphany about what an ass id been lately, among other things. Learned a *lot* from the whole thing, especially that 30-second wrap-up of the entire night that culminated in the epiphany. Even though it was terrible (and like 7 months later I had a rather upsetting flashback from that night, even after i'd had good acid trips), I knew then that I loved acid, and went back to it, multiple times. After the first time, I just knew that acid could be so much more, so I wasn't afraid to try it again. Now, I had no desire to go back to it right away, and didn't for a few months, but that was almost more a factor of availability then my desire to do it. I was wanting to do it again within like a month or two.
burn out said:
I still go with the statement LSD has never killed anybody. The reporting of that case is too unreliable to be believed and hasn't got anything to do someone taking LSD.
If you're asking is it possible to take LSD in such a dosage that it kills you then the answer is yes. But that applies to everything from baby's milk to vitamin C. Just because someone could inject himself with enough vitamin C to die doesn't mean that vitamin C kills you.
Ismene said:
once again, i never said "lsd kills you". stop it with your staw men. i simply posted a link for people to read and form their own opinions from. if the question was "has anyone ever died from an overdose of vitamin C and someone had injected a large amount of vitamin c and died from it, then the answer would most likely be a yes. it doesn't matter whether or not normal doses of vitamin c have ever killed anyone.
burn out said:
I never said you did. Stop it with your strawmen.
i simply posted a link for people to read and form their own opinions from
No you didn't. Swilow said LSD never killed anyone, then you said he was "incorrect" and posted a link to a story on erowid that has so little reliable data that it is meaningless. You wern't saying "form your own opinions" you said quite clearly that swilow was "incorrect" and that LSD had killed someone.
Do you have any more reliable and detailed information about cases of LSD killing people? That story on erowid isn't exactly convincing with lines like "The amount (320mg) was an estimate by the authors of the article and not based on direct knowledge of how much was taken"
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I always thought the case of the LSD overdose by injection was proven, ie, there were medical records of it. I'm interested to know whether that is true or if I had just always assumed it to be true because it's on Erowid.
This is what I always say to people who make claims such as "all mushrooms are the same" and "mushrooms are the same as synthetic 4-HO-DMT" and "4-AcO-XXX is the same as 4-HO-XXX because it's a prodrug", or "All the 4-HO-tryptamines are basically the same thing, any differences are due to the variability of experiences". Sure, if you've taken each one of them once, you can't form an opinion about their differences. But if you've gathered dozens of experiences with each, over time you can determine the qualities of each. Each experience is unique, but they contain many similarities as well, and when you notice things in each trial with one substance that you don't notice in any trials with another, you can say with reasonable conviction that the two substances have different effects.
folias said:
This is what I always say to people who make claims such as "all mushrooms are the same" and "mushrooms are the same as synthetic 4-HO-DMT" and "4-AcO-XXX is the same as 4-HO-XXX because it's a prodrug", or "All the 4-HO-tryptamines are basically the same thing, any differences are due to the variability of experiences". Sure, if you've taken each one of them once, you can't form an opinion about their differences. But if you've gathered dozens of experiences with each, over time you can determine the qualities of each. Each experience is unique, but they contain many similarities as well, and when you notice things in each trial with one substance that you don't notice in any trials with another, you can say with reasonable conviction that the two substances have different effects.
It's a baby!
Bluelighter
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Ick can we stop reviving the "bad lsd" debate? Neither side can ever prove itself for sure, because there hasn't been enough testing on LSD-impurities, particularly iso-LSD (as this likely makes up a large portion of the impurities in some batches depending on method used and skill of the chemist). They've done studies with iso-LSD on its own, but never in combination with pure d-LSD, so we really can't say for sure that they wouldn't interact in some way - which really isn't so far-fetched, given that we know so so little about how LSD works (there are other stronger serotonin agonists than acid at the same sub-receptors which don't cause anything psychedelic, and mescaline doesn't bind to serotonin) iso-LSD could very easily somehow interact with this.
I'll finish this off with a quote from http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_info8.shtml:
"The mechanism by which LSD alters consciousness is not understood.
The fact that only 0.001% of a dose crosses the blood-brain barrier,
and it leaves the brain within an hour suggests that it's mechanism
of action is very different from most drugs, so generalizations about
purity/quality based on other drugs should be used with caution.
Perhaps there are phenomena of synchronization, synergy, or resonance
in the neural response patterns to LSD that are disrupted or muted
by the presence of variants of LSD at LSD receptors (if they exist).
We simply don't know, and to pretend we can speak with certainty about
such things is to indulge in hubris."
I'll finish this off with a quote from http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_info8.shtml:
"The mechanism by which LSD alters consciousness is not understood.
The fact that only 0.001% of a dose crosses the blood-brain barrier,
and it leaves the brain within an hour suggests that it's mechanism
of action is very different from most drugs, so generalizations about
purity/quality based on other drugs should be used with caution.
Perhaps there are phenomena of synchronization, synergy, or resonance
in the neural response patterns to LSD that are disrupted or muted
by the presence of variants of LSD at LSD receptors (if they exist).
We simply don't know, and to pretend we can speak with certainty about
such things is to indulge in hubris."