Prolonged Negative Effects of LSD Use

[greenk]

Hellllllllllooooo,

I just wanted to start a discussion about the effects on one's mind after a trip has ended. I've been lurking, and posting rarely, on these forums for quite some time. One thing I constantly get is conflicting messages about the effects of LSD once the drug has been metabolized.

I have read on several occasions that someone takes LSD and has a bad trip and suffers from weeks to months of anxiety/paranoia/depression and other terrible things, like HPPD. With this being a real possibility I can't understand why anyone would take LSD.

While I know some people who have already tried it and have been fine, they are considerably dissuaded by the prospect of enduring mental difficulties simply by putting a small tab of paper in their mouth.

While I know that these occurrences are relatively rare, I realize that it is a very real risk. Because of this the majority of my time spent researching LSD concerns primarily this topic. My efforts are to construct a quasi-statistical mental representation of the possible outcomes of LSD use given certain premises. Simply observing discourse on the subject leaves me with a lot of unknowns, leaving my record keeping incomplete and therefor unreliable.

What I'd like to do is start a conversation with members of Bluelight about this topic, and ultimately have a resource for those who are interested in this matter, like me. I have listed several questions that are good indicators of what sort of information I'm looking for, so if you have any knowledge on the subject, or have any experience with this sort of situation, first hand or not, please reply.

• Does the person who was unfortunate enough to land in this situation responsibly use the substance (set and setting)?
• How experienced with the substance were they?
• Was the dose considerably larger than the user was used to or expected?
• Does the person suffer from mental ailments prior to use?
• Does the person have family members who have mental issues?
• Were any drugs mixed with LSD?
• Was the person well rested, fed, etc?
• How frequent and prolonged has this person's LSD use been?

I'd also like to hear about the effects of the LSD in some detail. What ails you? How much does it affect your everyday life? How long have you or were you affected? These kinds of questions, if answered would be incredibly useful to me, and to many others I suspect.

I also want to note that I'm aware that bluelight is a less-than-ideal sample for this, as those who are truly affected by the sometimes devastating consequences of LSD aren't likely to part take in a drug enthusiast forum.

 

[swilow]

I have read on several occasions that someone takes LSD and has a bad trip and suffers from weeks to months of anxiety/paranoia/depression and other terrible things, like HPPD. With this being a real possibility I can't understand why anyone would take LSD.

You can die driving a car...thats more severe then having a mental collapse of sorts. In that sense, I can't see why you would drive a car. Seriously, you think the possibilty "of weeks to months of anxiety/paranoia/depression and other terrible things, like HPPD" is of more importance then preserving your own life? LSD has never killed a person; cars have plenty. The point is moot.

Anyway, I find the patronising tone you preseted that with somewhat irritating; drug enthusiats? This is a harm reduction site.

Anyway, LSD has only ever changed my life for the better. Personally, I don't want to help you demonise a drug, seeing as you clearly haven't taken it.

 

[LSDreamer]

You can die driving a car...thats more severe then having a mental collapse of sorts. In that sense, I can't see why you would drive a car. Seriously, you think the possibilty "of weeks to months of anxiety/paranoia/depression and other terrible things, like HPPD" is of more importance then preserving your own life? LSD has never killed a person; cars have plenty. The point is moot.

Anyway, I find the patronising tone you preseted that with somewhat irritating; drug enthusiats? This is a harm reduction site.

Anyway, LSD has only ever changed my life for the better. Personally, I don't want to help you demonise a drug, seeing as you clearly haven't taken it.

Quite.

 

[greenk]

You can die driving a car...thats more severe then having a mental collapse of sorts. In that sense, I can't see why you would drive a car. Seriously, you think the possibilty "of weeks to months of anxiety/paranoia/depression and other terrible things, like HPPD" is of more importance then preserving your own life? LSD has never killed a person; cars have plenty. The point is moot.

I'm trying to see how death can follow from what is normally deemed a safe activity relates to psychological trauma induced by psychedelic use. I've never claimed anyone has died from biological reactions to the substance, and I'm not claiming that LSD is the only source of psychological trauma. Simply observing the existence of potential events which could cause similar outcomes doesn't change anything dealing with LSD.

Anyway, I find the patronising tone you preseted that with somewhat irritating; drug enthusiats?

I didn't mean to have this post seem as a lecture from one who thinks of they are above or superior or in any way talking down to any of you. I am, after all, calling upon your knowledge. And to call members of this site drug enthusiasts, in my estimation, isn't a stretch. I often read glowing recollections of experiences on certain chemicals, expressed desire to obtain and use certain drugs, and advice for others who take up the same past-time.

This is a harm reduction site.

I'd agree that this site has a good amount to do with harm reduction. If this is true, I don't see why you have reacted in a hostile fashion to my post, seeing as this concerns matters of harm from LSD.

Anyway, LSD has only ever changed my life for the better. Personally, I don't want to help you demonise a drug,

My mission isn't to demonize LSD. Why have I made this post? Myself? I have a lot of things going for me, and I enjoy psychedelic use. I want to keep it that way. When I read instances of individuals having tough times after psychedelic use I invariably begin thinking that I should stop using LSD and similar drugs. Since I value psychedelics quite a bit I'd be upset if I were to stop taking them, but I'd be considerably more upset if there was a situation that I could have avoided with the correct knowledge and respect for such a powerful substance.

seeing as you clearly haven't taken it.

I have taken LSD as well as several other psychedelics. I haven't posted this thread with the intent of aggression towards anything or anyone.


Sorry if this reads in a way that upsets certain people.

 

[MikeJ77]

I've never really noticed anything negative and I've dropped lucy quite a few times, um not even sure how many times now, don't really know if thats a negative thing or not though heh LSD's actually helped me to see the world with a much more open minded perspective and has always been a fitting way for me to realize or sort of change certain things about myself.
Not saying that there aren't any bad things however. I've witnessed a "freak out" once when a rather experienced friend of mine dropped 3 or 4 hits when he wasn't really in a good place mentally, by that I mean was under a bit of stress with court and family issues. He had a sort of panic attack (not sure if that's the right terminology) and it took a few days for him to recover from it. There was nothing permanent, but the few days after he was pretty depressed and seemed a little "twitchy." It's not as bad as some of the stories I've heard and read, but it did show the dark side of the oh-so beautiful lucy to me...
But from what I could see, such things can be avoided. I'd say it's all about preparing one's self mentally before hand, being with people you can trust, and of course comfortable surroundings.

 

[swilow]

I'm trying to see how death can follow from what is normally deemed a safe activity relates to psychological trauma induced by psychedelic use. I've never claimed anyone has died from biological reactions to the substance, and I'm not claiming that LSD is the only source of psychological trauma. Simply observing the existence of potential events which could cause similar outcomes doesn't change anything dealing with LSD..

My only point is that when you implied that you were somewhat incredulous that people would drop LSD knowing the potential longterm risks, I was merely responding by saying greater risk applies to driving a motor-vehicle ie. death, yet it would be seen as odd if one was unwillling to drive for such a reason.

My problem is that you've olny asked negative questions; to which you can only receive one sort of response- biased or neglible. To me, this line of questioning is dangerous as it automatically asserts a bias in your end-results.

I guess I reacted slightly uppity, for that I apologise too I am indeed a drug enthusiast, but not simply a hedonist, which was the impression that you gave in regards to LSD users.

So I'll answer the questions as such; this will be recounting the tale of a friend who dosed way too high and had a freak-out; sketchy for a few days, but he's healthy as Larry now....

Does the person who was unfortunate enough to land in this situation responsibly use the substance (set and setting)?

-Use was irresponsible; LSD was ingested on a train, come-up occurred solely around straight people who were slightly anti-drug. My friend, R's, mindset was shaken as he had recently been involved in some violence and had police looking for him- after ingestion, the cops got on the train, just for a walk, but that set him off.

How experienced with the substance were they?

-Not very. Probably only dosed 3-4 times before.

Was the dose considerably larger than the user was used to or expected?

-Yes yes indeed.

Does the person suffer from mental ailments prior to use?

-No; slight social anxiety of a teenager, and some anger problems, but relatively stable.

Does the person have family members who have mental issues?

-His older brother is scihzophrenic. His father is violent.

Were any drugs mixed with LSD?

-I believe small amounts of cannabis and beer were used, but nothing much really....

Was the person well rested, fed, etc?-No clue, but it was early saturday morning so I will presume R had a hangover.

How frequent and prolonged has this person's LSD use been?

-Since then? Pretty steady; mainly meth and MDMA and ketamine in mammoth quanitites. He is currently working in London.

No ill effects were noticed afterwards, though he was unusually shy for a few days.

I still don't see what this will possibly achieve because the 'negative' effects were only experienced during the trip; and they were horrible. Basically, R got rid of mammoth amounts of trauma (IMO) by feeeling every ounce of fear possible.

 

[Youkai]

dude, you are reading WAYYYYYY to much into it. basicly if you have aq mental disorder from the begaining, it could get worse, if you are in a shitty point in life, it may explode in your face.
the rest is up to cvhance and the individual.

 

[burn out]

You can die driving a car...thats more severe then having a mental collapse of sorts. In that sense, I can't see why you would drive a car. Seriously, you think the possibilty "of weeks to months of anxiety/paranoia/depression and other terrible things, like HPPD" is of more importance then preserving your own life? LSD has never killed a person; cars have plenty. The point is moot.

incorrect: http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=220

Anyway, I find the patronising tone you preseted that with somewhat irritating; drug enthusiats? This is a harm reduction site.

lol, don't try to play the harm reduction card. bluelight is filled with drug enthusiasts harm reduction or not.

Anyway, LSD has only ever changed my life for the better. Personally, I don't want to help you demonise a drug, seeing as you clearly haven't taken it.

this is an example, why are you assuming he trying to "demonise" a drug? perhaps he is simply looking for information/cases of people who have been harmed by it, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do on what you claim is a HARM REDUCTION site. if you refuse to help him, well who forced you to respond to this thread?

 

[burn out]

My only point is that when you implied that you were somewhat incredulous that people would drop LSD knowing the potential longterm risks, I was merely responding by saying greater risk applies to driving a motor-vehicle ie. death, yet it would be seen as odd if one was unwillling to drive for such a reason.

not necessarily. some people are more frightened of long term psychological harm than they are of death from doing normal socially acceptable activities like driving a car, which the evasion of could make their life exceedingly difficult. not taking lsd doesn't usually make life exceedingly difficult for the average person and refusing to continue using lsd is usually much more socially acceptable than refusing to drive anymore. social acceptibility does play a roll in the decisions some people make.

anyway, i'm just playing devil's advocate here, trying to show the faults in your logic because i do believe your logic is invalid in this case.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

There are already so many of these "will LSD permanently bamage my drain" threads out there that we might not really need another one. Some people will attest that they had a bad trip with LSD, others (like me) will attest that their LSD experience saved their life and made them a stronger person. Individual results will always vary. If you are seriously questioning whether or not you are in the right state of mind to handle LSD, then you should not take it. It is not something that one should ever do carelessly for shits and giggles or to get "fuX0r'd uP." There are plenty of compounds out there that get one fucked-up and this is not one of them. To most people that have experienced it, it is a "sacred" gift.

Basically: if you are under 18 (this one goes for all drugs), have any history of psychotic behavior, any family history of schizophrenia or have ever been rendered 'completely out of control of your behavior' by a chemical, then LSD is not the drug for you. LSD should not be your first psychedelic--consider it to have prerequisites of one prior good trip and basic knowledge of neuropharmacology. For your first trip, you should go with something that has a shorter duration of action.

 

[I am shpongled]

You may live up to 102 years old.

 

[swilow]

not necessarily. some people are more frightened of long term psychological harm than they are of death from doing normal socially acceptable activities like driving a car, which the evasion of could make their life exceedingly difficult. not taking lsd doesn't usually make life exceedingly difficult for the average person and refusing to continue using lsd is usually much more socially acceptable than refusing to drive anymore. social acceptibility does play a roll in the decisions some people make.

anyway, i'm just playing devil's advocate here, trying to show the faults in your logic because i do believe your logic is invalid in this case.

Whatever. I think your uber rationalism is rather boring but thats cool.

Fact is this- LSD is one of the safest psychedelics known to man.

I know I didn't have to rely to this topic, but I'm one of the moderators so its kinda my job I don't believe LSD causes negative effects when used resonsibly.

If your argument above was meant to mean anything its lost on me; I'm not very rational so I wouldn't bother with mundane logic. See, I'll just change what I meant to say I meant, you know?

The worst side effect of LSD is getting a bit gentle.....

Heres no peace.

 

[tobala]

^^^^ Swilow my friend, are the benzos getting an upper hand? :D

 

[bri2u2002]

Depression. Not sure if it was from LSD but I went through some serious depression after tripping a lot over a summer many years ago.

 

[Madhatter4]

Anyway, LSD has only ever changed my life for the better. Personally, I don't want to help you demonise a drug, seeing as you clearly haven't taken it.

^^^My thoughts exactly!!!! The OP is a borderline troll

 

[It's a baby!]

^^^My thoughts exactly!!!! The OP is a borderline troll

Come on guys he was asking an honest question, there's no need to be jumping down his throat like this 8)

I had a very bad reaction to LSD one time but it was solely due to cannabis. I totally oversmoked and had the worst experience of my life, but there were no long-term effects (besides not wanting to do LSD for a long time )

 

[Recept]

Yes, LSD + cannabis is quite the dangerous combination. LSD on it's own is definately way safer.

 

[greenk]

Since I can't yet PM people I'd like to respond to madhatter: lol.

I'd really love to post the PM but it's a Private Message so I'll respect the intent of privacy (unless Madhatter is cool with it), but I can assure you it was amusing.

Seriously, this isn't an attack on LSD, please, stop yelling at me.

 

[swilow]

^^^My thoughts exactly!!!! The OP is a borderline troll

Well, thats not needed. I don't think he's a troll, just phrasing his questions in a difficult to interpret way. Thats all I have issue with.....

Greenk, this question is fine, and no-ones yelling; I was drawling from the side of my mouth ala stroke patient actually. Its just hard to tell what responses you want to get. Obviously, not the ones your after but hey.... You can PM mods with any questions....

^^^^ Swilow my friend, are the benzos getting an upper hand? :D

Sorry, what does that mean?

 

[justanotherperson]

I have read on several occasions that someone takes LSD and has a bad trip and suffers from weeks to months of anxiety/paranoia/depression and other terrible things, like HPPD. With this being a real possibility I can't understand why anyone would take LSD.

While I know some people who have already tried it and have been fine, they are considerably dissuaded by the prospect of enduring mental difficulties simply by putting a small tab of paper in their mouth.

Anxiety, paranoia, depression - are all caused by fear. fear, is the inherent bias our conscious and linear mind possesses.
Pretend i asked you "Who are you?"
You would automatically respond with your name "Bob"(or something), but bob is merely a word, a label, an interpretation. If you changed your name to "Jack", you would still be the same person, but others merely interpret you differently. Instead of "bob" says, its now "jack" says.

Now, say your mother didn't name you until 2 months after you were born. During those 2 months, you were still YOU, just without an ego (ego=what defines you. your likes,dislikes,hobbies,etc). Now, to have an idea of who you are in this linear world, you need experiences so logic can do its work.
(logic is comparing and predicting things based on data, aka results, aka experience/information)

All of this data, the data of your life thus far - affects how you look at things. I may taste an apple differently from you, and you can never prove if i was right or your interpretation of the apple was. There are no negatives or positives in the universe, mental 'disabilities' are merely societal abnorms. you fear the unknown because your logical processors/brain doesn't have any previous data to compare it to, therefore because of old habits you are immediately fearful. (this even goes down to the cellular level, as soon as something foreign or 'alien' enters your body, the first reaction is to destroy it - whatever it is). This helps us survive in the real world, as it keeps us 'safe', but why fear death?

Basically, stop fearing and all will be revealed to you