Prohormones/Designer Steroids

clen is anti - catabolic , I've always found clen and hcg have secured all gains even while cuttin during PCT imo.
 
STAKABOL IS THE SHIT!!!!!

I'm not even halfway into my cycle of stakabol...I'm 9 lbs and my strength is the strongest I've ever been in my entire life..I was in the gym for 3 and 1/2 hours today...

I can add an extra 10-20 lbs on every lift and my reps on my current personal bests are all higher...

0 side effects...appetite is fine, dick and balls look beautiful as always, agressive as shit but only in the gym....Honestly experienced more sides with epi!!!!

200 lbs nigggggggaaass!
 
theartofwar said:
clen is anti - catabolic , I've always found clen and hcg have secured all gains even while cuttin during PCT imo.
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Stop spreading the disinformation. It is proven to be catabolic to muscle in humans, by countless medical studies. It's nice that you are doing OK even though you've taken it in PCT but your own single personal experience is not a statistically significant piece of scientific evidence. There may be many other reasons why your PCTs are going so well, that have nothing to do with clen.
 
204 lbs!!! No bloat...RECOVERY IS RIDICULOUS....I HAVE BEEN AT THE GYM FOR 3 HOURS AT A TIME AND EVEN DOING 45 MIN OF CARDIO A DAY!!!! MOST ANABOLIC IVE EVER BEEN....NO SIDE EFFECTS.
 
PARooolller said:
204 lbs!!! No bloat...RECOVERY IS RIDICULOUS....I HAVE BEEN AT THE GYM FOR 3 HOURS AT A TIME AND EVEN DOING 45 MIN OF CARDIO A DAY!!!! MOST ANABOLIC IVE EVER BEEN....NO SIDE EFFECTS.
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How many pills are you taking again, and how much of what do they contain?
 
Horrux said:
How many pills are you taking again, and how much of what do they contain?
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I've found that the "pulsing" method of dosing any type of PH/DS is the most effective for me personally...

I feel that you should access tolerance and find a comfortable dose in the first half of the cycle and then pulse your doses throughout the second half...

I don't take any of them on non-workout days and I'm now taking 4 of them on workout days....Each pill contains 10mg of sdrol and i'm too lazy to check the doses of hdrol and pplex...

I'm on my last week of the cycle and I'm up 18 lbs...gains are a little too wet and i wouldn't reconsider this cycle for someone trying to not gain a consderable amount of bf and water...but the strength gains are comparable to what i believe dianabol would be like...

hardly any sides...some mild acne
 
Horrux said:
Stop spreading the disinformation. It is proven to be catabolic to muscle in humans, by countless medical studies. It's nice that you are doing OK even though you've taken it in PCT but your own single personal experience is not a statistically significant piece of scientific evidence. There may be many other reasons why your PCTs are going so well, that have nothing to do with clen.
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bro, name me one study that shows clen is catabolic - i can pull out dozens that show it is ANTI catabolic. not trying to be a dick, i'd rather know the truth myself. Peace. btw anyone had experience w/SARMs S4 ?
 
theartofwar said:
bro, name me one study that shows clen is catabolic - i can pull out dozens that show it is ANTI catabolic. not trying to be a dick, i'd rather know the truth myself. Peace. btw anyone had experience w/SARMs S4 ?
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There are studies showing that clen has some anticatabolic properties IN RATS at multiples of doses that would kill a human. It is well known that the rat is not the appropriate animal model for beta-adrenergic receptor testing. For these reasons, those studies are not valid.

There are multiple case reports - not studies - that show permanent muscle damage from clenbuterol in athletes. Again, because of the specifics of beta-adrenergic research, all reports pertaining to injured, very sick or physically impaired people cannot be considered as applicable to athletes.

For example, in someone who is more-or-less bed-bound, the beta2 pathway rests all day. Activation using clenbuterol results in lean mass gains, AS IT WOULD without clen IF THE PERSON lived a normal life. Additional activation, and excessive activation of the beta-2 pathway results in all cases in muscle damage in humans.

There are lots of caveats in beta-adrenergic reseach, it is very far from steroid research where about 100% of what you discover in rats transposes perfectly.
 
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Horrux said:
There are studies showing that clen has some anticatabolic properties IN RATS at multiples of doses that would kill a human. It is well known that the rat is not the appropriate animal model for beta-adrenergic receptor testing. For these reasons, those studies are not valid.

There are multiple case reports - not studies - that show permanent muscle damage from clenbuterol in athletes. Again, because of the specifics of beta-adrenergic research, all reports pertaining to injured, very sick or physically impaired people cannot be considered as applicable to athletes.

For example, in someone who is more-or-less bed-bound, the beta2 pathway rests all day. Activation using clenbuterol results in lean mass gains, AS IT WOULD without clen IF THE PERSON lived a normal life. Additional activation, and excessive activation of the beta-2 pathway results in all cases in muscle damage in humans.

There are lots of caveats in beta-adrenergic reseach, it is very far from steroid research where about 100% of what you discover in rats transposes perfectly.
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gotcha , yeah , i rely on the mice - good to know. I hope you can understand I'm not trying to spread misinformation bro, I'm all ears to learn if I can. Thx for the read.
 
theartofwar said:
bro, name me one study that shows clen is catabolic - i can pull out dozens that show it is ANTI catabolic. not trying to be a dick, i'd rather know the truth myself. Peace. btw anyone had experience w/SARMs S4 ?
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As I said there is lots of conflicting reports. To be on the safe side you might wan't to run it in an environment where catabolism doesn't matter as much (such as on a cycle). If you do run it and it causes some muscle catabolism then there is always opertunity to regained lost muscle fairly quickly. It all depends on someones goals- as an ecto all my muscle mass is fairly precious as I need a long time to build it. On the other hand a meso might opt to sacrifise some muscle for a bit more defenition. Using this compound to reduce muscle catabolism is a stupid idea- there are much better alternatives for preserving muscle. The only REAL use for clen is to increase metabolism. So debating catabolism is a moot point.

As for S4 I'm looking into perhaps running some next year. After doing lots of reading about it I'm thinking of using it in a rather unorthodox manner. I belive its real beauty will lie not in using it as a cycle or during/post AAS cycle. I think that running small(ish) doses on the evening/day following heavy workouts will cause a slow and subtle anabolic/recomping effect. This will almost certainly prove to be a substance where less is more and running 50-75mcg doses 3x a week will prove to have the best pro/con ratio. I don't think its likely to have dramatic effects but running in such a manner will have GH like effects (on body composition and nutrient repartitioning- I doubt it will provide any of the other fringe benefits of GH use).
 
p-mo said:
As I said there is lots of conflicting reports. To be on the safe side you might wan't to run it in an environment where catabolism doesn't matter as much (such as on a cycle). If you do run it and it causes some muscle catabolism then there is always opertunity to regained lost muscle fairly quickly. It all depends on someones goals- as an ecto all my muscle mass is fairly precious as I need a long time to build it. On the other hand a meso might opt to sacrifise some muscle for a bit more defenition. Using this compound to reduce muscle catabolism is a stupid idea- there are much better alternatives for preserving muscle. The only REAL use for clen is to increase metabolism. So debating catabolism is a moot point.
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I absolutely agree. For reducing catabolism you have IGF-1, GH, insulin, peg MGF, PGF-2a for the brave, not to mention stuff like arachidonic acid and other things that are available OTC. So there really ARE a lot of options for reducing catabolism in very effective ways.

p-mo said:
As for S4 [I'm thinking you mean T3?] I'm looking into perhaps running some next year. After doing lots of reading about it I'm thinking of using it in a rather unorthodox manner. I belive its real beauty will lie not in using it as a cycle or during/post AAS cycle. I think that running small(ish) doses on the evening/day following heavy workouts will cause a slow and subtle anabolic/recomping effect. This will almost certainly prove to be a substance where less is more and running 50-75mcg doses 3x a week will prove to have the best pro/con ratio. I don't think its likely to have dramatic effects but running in such a manner will have GH like effects (on body composition and nutrient repartitioning- I doubt it will provide any of the other fringe benefits of GH use).
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That should work well. Personally I like to run T3 at 75µg to 125µg ED for 6-12 months at a time.
 
I was definetly talking about SARM S4. My dosages are out tho- I meant to say mg rather than mcg.

Im pretty skinny already- going by caliper readings (that I'm not very good at taking) Im about 8-9%bf. T3/T4 would have me wasting away! All I need is a little clen to lean out.
 
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