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Pretty sure I got an NBOMe, but it tested purple with Ehrlich's reagent...

as far as i know and i could be wrong but as lsd sits around hot or cold light or dark it starts to deteriorate into rat poisin
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LSD does not degrade into 'rat poison", it degrades to compounds that are simply not active as hallucinogens. (lumi-LSD, iso-LSD et cetera). and this generally only happens in the heat, or with moisture, or UV light exposure. If LSD is kept under inert gas, or away from light and moisture, it will remain potent for 50+ years. The degradation compounds are not overtly toxic and do not neccesarily contribute to a "dirty" feeling unless you are taking many, many blotters to compensate.

Nobody uses anything even remotely related to ergoloid alkaloids as rat poisons, to my knowledge it's all compounds like ethylene glycol, zinc phosphide etc.

Related note, strychnine in LSD is another myth, LSD is in no way related to strychnine at all, moreover strychnine even at very small, "inactive" doses is almost intolerably bitter (in fact it and a relative, brucine, are used to "denature" alcohol). Adding strychnine to LSD tabs would therefore be immediately obvious, when you could not put them on your tongue w/o gagging.

I'm unsure as to exactly how the reagent works.
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nor am i but my best guess is the DMAB is condensing with the indole in some way to make a leuco/indigo dye type thing? the presence of a strong acid plus oxidant makes me think thats the case.
 
acousticman420 said:
lsd isn't at all made with rat poisin, as far as i know and i could be wrong but as lsd sits around hot or cold light or dark it starts to deteriorate into rat poisin some ppl dont get weak acid just older.on another note what the hell!!!acid used to be everywhere in my area. eversince shwag stock got busted i havent seen real cid in over a year!Help i miss you lucy!
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^ Not true. You may have picked that up from the prior myth that Strychnine (rat poison) was commonly found on blotter, but this simply isn't true and was a myth made up to scare drug users. Strychnine and other poisons have nothing to do with LSD, what it degrades into or its manufacture. :)

Edit: Too late, had this reply saved but sekio beat me to it.
 
Apparently with 3-substituted indoles and p-dimethylaminocinnamaldehyde you get this:

nihms56800f1.jpg


Link. It probably works similarly with the benzaldehyde. I can imagine something like this being possible with NBOMe's:

egimb.jpg
 
Skillet, so your actually saying that you can see how it'd be possible for NBOMe's to give a positive reaction on an Erlich test?
 
Depends if that reaction happens and if it does, what colour it goes. Was it this thread where someone said they had ordered reagents to test it?
 
Transform said:
Depends if that reaction happens and if it does, what colour it goes. Was it this thread where someone said they had ordered reagents to test it?
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'twas I. I'm out of town tho so I probably won't get around to it until the 5th at least.
 
There are many things with an indole structure. Anyone can walk into a store and buy them.
 
In my opinion this "add indole to cheat Erlich when making fake LSD blotter" theory is ridiculous (No offense meant to the believers) How many people test their LSD blotters with Erhlich? Maybe a few here on bluelight, but the general mass of people who take LSD never heard of Erhlich tests, and just drop it straight.

It would be a lot of work to just cheat the few who do the Erhlich. I don't think scammers are that shrewd and meticulous when thinking out how to pass off something else as LSD.
 
Depends, if you are expecting to sell your entire batch online it might be worthwhile. Otherwise, I think you're probably right
 
Fagott said:
Skillet, so your actually saying that you can see how it'd be possible for NBOMe's to give a positive reaction on an Erlich test?
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I think it's possible that you'd get some reaction, though I wouldn't like to guess what colour you'd get from that chromophore. There's only one double bond less than what you'd get reacting a 3-sub indole with p-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde so it could still be purple, maybe. If someone wants to try and apply the Woodward-Fieser rules for conjugated carbonyl compounds (I guess is closest to these) be my guest :D

It wouldn't be that much work to dope NBOMe blotters though, just add 10% 5-HTP/tryptophan/melatonin to the NBOMe and dissolve as usual. But I agree it's unlikely anyone does it (though maybe after this thread...), so the next most likely explanations, IMO, are that the NBOMe's react as well, or something in the paper.
 
TAPPER said:
bonnaroovet, I have run into the same scenario. The compound I tried was absolutely not LSD yet tested somewhat positive for an indole. (I say somewhat because the reaction was a very light pink @ ~30-60 sec to a faint lavender after several minutes)
Given the possibilities that could be active on a std hit of blotter it would seem highly unlikely that this would be an indole other than LSD.

And there lies the mystery. I know for sure this was not LSD but the test implies otherwise.

My theory is that those laying the RC blotter have been getting smarter and are trying to ‘beat’ the test so to speak by adding a small amount of an indole into the mix. If this hypothesis is correct, the suspect indole would not need be active in the ug or very low mg range so as to fit on a std blotter. It would just need to be enough to test positive for an indole. (maybe this is why the reaction I observed was not exactly distinct)

Although this is just a theory I feel further examination is warranted. Anyone with insight as to how much indole must be present trigger a reaction when using Ehrlich’s would be useful. (I’m sure this information is available, I just have not begun to search for it)
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========

I don't have much information in Ehrlich's, but LSD should turn olive with Marquis reagent. Because Ehrlich is only a +/- indication, it's imperative that it be used in conjunction with something else that can differentiate between indoles. Same with Simons reagent when testing for presence of MDMA, should not be used by itself.
 
Trouble with Marquis reagent is that it may react with blotter paper. If I'm not mistaken.
 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/584723-Ever-used-Marquis-reagent-to-test-LSD-blotter
Post #3

to summarise Marquis goes orange with LSD liquid but can react with black charring on the blotter paper so it makes testing blotters useless. One suggested idea is to extract or soak the blotter in a couple of drops of alcohol then remove the blotter. I believe the drops of alcohol remaining should contain enough LSD to test with Marquis. In my mind is seems Marquis is best used as a back up after using Ehrlich if there's doubt (such as there has been in this thread 8))

Originally posted by TAPPER bonnaroovet, I have run into the same scenario. The compound I tried was absolutely not LSD yet tested somewhat positive for an indole. (I say somewhat because the reaction was a very light pink @ ~30-60 sec to a faint lavender after several minutes)
Given the possibilities that could be active on a std hit of blotter it would seem highly unlikely that this would be an indole other than LSD....

... Anyone with insight as to how much indole must be present trigger a reaction when using Ehrlich’s would be useful...
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It would seem the LOD (Limit of Detection) of Ehrlich's Reagent is 6µg of LSD. I've checked 3 different forensic/law enforcement drug testing papers: Clarke's Analysis of Drugs and Poisons Fourth Edition, Forensic Science International - drug.spot.test.validation, US Dept of Justice - Colour Test Reagents they have all listed their reagent as having a LOD (Limit of Detection) for LSD as 6µg. This is for their version of Ehrlich's Reagent. Which they simply call para-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde (p-DMAB) Reagent and all 3 use the same formula. Their formula is 2g of p-DMAB to 50ml of 95% ethanol to 50ml of concentrated hydrochloric acid. Interestingly enough the only forensic document I have that actually calls it Ehrlich Reagent and provides a formula is: Spot Tests - A Reference Chart For Forensic Chemists. They list their formula as 5g of p-DMAB to 100ml of concentrated hydrochloric acid. No ethanol or other ingredients listed.

All the 4 documents I looked through said purple or deep purple for LSD tested with Ehrlich's Reagent. However Spot Tests - A Reference Chart For Forensic Chemists has a whole range of different reactions to different drugs with Ehrlich's. For example aMT is listed as red/violet. This is only a guess but if 5-MeO-aMT has been reported on blotters (even if only in some niche research chem markets) does it also have a red/violet reaction? Here's a link to that document if you wish to look up some more Ehrlich's Reagent reactions: http://rapidshare.com/share/A0D563062575020ACD317D3FA086442C

Finally here's some fairly new Erowid LSD detection guides with lots of nice pictures. It clearly shows the same NIK bag reagent used in the first post of this thread going going purple for LSD. I firmly believe both reagents Erowid used was Ehrlich's. It shows that 25I-NBOMe has no reaction to Ehrlich at least at the concentration they used which I believe worked out to 500µg. This would be equal to testing 1/2 a tab of 25I-NBOMe which are often sold as 1mg by research chemical vendors.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_testing2.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_testing3.shtml
 
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Jesusgreen said:
I remember in the recent past seeing posts on other forums of members reporting that their 25I-NBOMe tested pink/purple with Ehrlichs.

Is it not possible that for some reason these compounds are flagging a false positive for indoles? I'm unsure as to exactly how the reagent works.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrlich's_reagent

I assume DMAB forms a complex with the nitrogen. Under this assumption ALD-52 should test negative. NBOMes are secondary amines and will form an iminium. This is a charged, conjugated thing, but I don't know if it would be the same color; that seems unlikely.

Has AL-LAD been considered as a possible simulant? Bitterness could be ink, but TiHKAL reports AL-LAD having a shorter duration than LSD. I haven't had the privilege of trying AL-LAD, yet...
 
I believe MBT is an indole added to ink to keep it from corroding over time. Just a thought MBT or another chem in the ink could have caused a false positive. Bitterness and numbness are signs it's not LSD. I've never heard of anyone confusing the metallic LSD taste with numbness as was suggested earlier in the thread. I've never thought Ehrlich was a reliable means of testing blotter. the amounts of chem are too low besides the paper and ink reaction. You need GC/MS.

atara, it's not likely it was AL-LAD as it was not yet synth'ed by the lab we all know of when OP made this thread. The blotters I tried were clearly labeled AL-LAD and had no taste whatsoever. Effects are great, very close to LSD but uniquely beautiful. I recommend you try it.
 
Metallic yes but that's not what OP said. He said bitter and numbing. LSD doesn't make your tongue go numb for a while in any situation, and there's no way you can mistake that with the distinct metallic taste some LSD has. It certainly doesn't linger and you need quite a bit of LSD for it to taste at all bitter. Indoles are found everywhere from vegetables to feces to dyes used in ink. That is why in my opinion something in the blotter / ink has caused a false reaction.
 
Seems like a good way to test for LSD would be to split your sample in half, use ehrlich on one side and mandelin on the other. The ehrlich should turn purple and the mandelin shouldn't change. This would both indicate an indole and rule out DOx compounds as well as NBOMes which turn yellow in mandelin. 5-meo-αmt also reacts to mandelin so you pretty much have all your bases covered.

I still can't see why anyone with half a brain would think that an NBOMe would sufficiently substitute for LSD seeing as it's not orally active and I've never seem bunk lsd of this type before. Mind you, maybe in other places in the world, people are significantly more stupid.
 
Anon0631 said:
I still can't see why anyone with half a brain would think that an NBOMe would sufficiently substitute for LSD seeing as it's not orally active and I've never seem bunk lsd of this type before. Mind you, maybe in other places in the world, people are significantly more stupid.
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Where I live, just about anything sold on tabs usually turns out to be 25i. Its like a fucking plague
 
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