izo
Bluelighter
Rather not.
-
N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
Post a chemical that you think has some serious potential to become a winner in the RC market
- Thread starter simstim
- Start date
Rather not.
simstim
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2021
- Messages
- 6,606
There are quite a few oxazolines on the market right now if you count cyclazadone relatives.
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simstim
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2021
- Messages
- 6,606
Speaking of loperamide and the freaking government.....I just came from Sam's club where I bought some loperamide.
It was behind the freaking counter!!
I said gee I wonder why? And the lady said people were abusing it because they found out it helps with withdrawals!!!
Holy shit! What is this world coming to?
Pretty soon they'll be limiting loperamide quantities or something. I'm worried that I've contributed to this by posting lope tapering strategies on bluelight, but fuck man, it's diarrhea medicine. How can they do this??
Our government sucks. God forbid esterification should become popular. We'll all be shitting ourselves if we get sick!
It was behind the freaking counter!!
I said gee I wonder why? And the lady said people were abusing it because they found out it helps with withdrawals!!!
Holy shit! What is this world coming to?
Pretty soon they'll be limiting loperamide quantities or something. I'm worried that I've contributed to this by posting lope tapering strategies on bluelight, but fuck man, it's diarrhea medicine. How can they do this??
Our government sucks. God forbid esterification should become popular. We'll all be shitting ourselves if we get sick!
You do not need acetic anhydride. Mixed anhydrides and mixed diyls also work. Even 100% acetic acid does not. The reason is because it's a reversible reaction and one needs to dehydrate the product to push the reaction to the right. HOW you dehydrate it is an interesting problem. In the case of anhydrides, after an acetylation, the water adds to a second molecule of the anhydride forming 2 molecules of the carboxylic acid. In the case of diyls, ithe water adds and forms the anhydride. That is why diyls have a molar advantage although their physical properties might make them less practical.... of course said diyls are freely soluble in acetic acid, so their would appear to be a solution...
As for new RCs.... well, it's a simple matter of value-per-dose-unit/cost-per-dose-unit. Fentanyl analogues that take 4 synthetic steps thrive because of their extreme potency while clomethiazole homologues are unseen because it needs 200-400mg/dose to catch a buzz. That is why people have gone for dangerously potent benzodiazepine analogues - it's expensive chemistry but at >1 million doses per Kg, it's still 'cheap'.
While I say this, I note that RC vendors seem to be pushing up prices. People seem willing to pay. I find this amazing considering the quality of recent offerings.
I think key is to find something existing that is popular, effective and above all SAFE and to improve it's efficacy via a simple modification. I note, for example, that their are multiple U-47700 derivatives. All are inferior to the original but they share the virtue of only needing 1 precursor to be changed. Their does not appear to have been much work done in ChemOffice because it does have a particular virtue in it's QSAR.
If forced to offer something, here is a putative mu agonist ligand. I haven't checked using software but I believe it follows RO5, is the 'magical' 15 methylense top to tail and has the virtue of being based on a compound with demonstrated activity. I would expect it to demonstrate activity similar to diampromide. I would not expect it to have particularly remarkable affinity, but that it's LogP and minimum energy conformation would ensure that it is at least an active (but one never knows). Nobody has explored the β-aminoketones much.
As for new RCs.... well, it's a simple matter of value-per-dose-unit/cost-per-dose-unit. Fentanyl analogues that take 4 synthetic steps thrive because of their extreme potency while clomethiazole homologues are unseen because it needs 200-400mg/dose to catch a buzz. That is why people have gone for dangerously potent benzodiazepine analogues - it's expensive chemistry but at >1 million doses per Kg, it's still 'cheap'.
While I say this, I note that RC vendors seem to be pushing up prices. People seem willing to pay. I find this amazing considering the quality of recent offerings.
I think key is to find something existing that is popular, effective and above all SAFE and to improve it's efficacy via a simple modification. I note, for example, that their are multiple U-47700 derivatives. All are inferior to the original but they share the virtue of only needing 1 precursor to be changed. Their does not appear to have been much work done in ChemOffice because it does have a particular virtue in it's QSAR.
If forced to offer something, here is a putative mu agonist ligand. I haven't checked using software but I believe it follows RO5, is the 'magical' 15 methylense top to tail and has the virtue of being based on a compound with demonstrated activity. I would expect it to demonstrate activity similar to diampromide. I would not expect it to have particularly remarkable affinity, but that it's LogP and minimum energy conformation would ensure that it is at least an active (but one never knows). Nobody has explored the β-aminoketones much.
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DeathIndustrial88
Bluelighter
So fucking ridiculous!!!!
I think some places have already lowered the quantity you get in each package.
God forbid some one uses something so easily accessible and cheap (which produces no buzz) versus becoming methadone & bupe slaves.
Thanks for that.
I should have known it was more complicated than simply mixing some AA/AH in a pot with an opioid and cooking it. lol
Without the proper knowledge or equipment, I guess I won't be experimenting.
I believe that in places like Afghanistan, they are still able to obtain acetic anhydride although acetic propanoic anhydride will work, ethane-1,1-diyl diacetate will work, propane-1,1-diyl diacetate will work, 1-(acetyloxy)ethyl propanoate will work... you get the idea. There are dozens of analogues JUST of mixed anhydrides/diyls of acetic & propanoic acid. If you start adding benzoic acid, nicotinic acid and so on, you end up with hundreds of different chemicals each with a different CAS.
Pyridine used to be the catalyst of choice but of course it's toxic it stinks (even worse than AA) and you cannot easily recover it. For that reason, 1H-benzo[de]isoquinoline and similar higher MW derivatives are used.
Of course AA in AA (acetic anhydride in acetic acid) will work but it tends to be slow UNLESS you use such a catalyst. It means much more less anhydride is used.
Lastly, if you choose a carboxylic acid with a boiling-point >100°C then the water can be distilled off. I'm not going to go through every carboxylic acid, but you can see the logic.
Pyridine used to be the catalyst of choice but of course it's toxic it stinks (even worse than AA) and you cannot easily recover it. For that reason, 1H-benzo[de]isoquinoline and similar higher MW derivatives are used.
Of course AA in AA (acetic anhydride in acetic acid) will work but it tends to be slow UNLESS you use such a catalyst. It means much more less anhydride is used.
Lastly, if you choose a carboxylic acid with a boiling-point >100°C then the water can be distilled off. I'm not going to go through every carboxylic acid, but you can see the logic.
ChemicallyEnhanced
Bluelighter
I don't have a pic of the molecule but I loved Pyrazolam. Extremely functional and went really well with everything.
Including another I like: 3,4-fluouro-phenmetrazine
Including another I like: 3,4-fluouro-phenmetrazine
I am surprised that p-Me phenmetrazine isn't out there... or maybe it is? I would predict it to be similar to mephedrone given that the aryl, N lone-lair & O lone-pairs all overlay perfectly. The extra methylenes will make is more lipophilic than mephedrone and I would predict that oxidation of the p-Me will be the major metabolic pathway.
Somebody tried replacing the alpha methyl of mephedrone with a fluoromethyl. It seemed like a good idea. I tried it. It burned to snort and left me feeling poisoned. I cannot work out if the compound itself was toxic or a metabolite was, but it never took of. It's amazing how small, simple and seemingly logical structural changes can go awry.
That is always the worry. Even if your stage 1 & stage 2 trials go without incident, it's impractical to stage 3 and sometimes it's then that problems show up. After all, it was only 1 in 200 people that aminorex seriously harmed but even if 1 subject DID develop heart-valve damage after the trial, you cannot calculate a CI with just 1.
Somebody tried replacing the alpha methyl of mephedrone with a fluoromethyl. It seemed like a good idea. I tried it. It burned to snort and left me feeling poisoned. I cannot work out if the compound itself was toxic or a metabolite was, but it never took of. It's amazing how small, simple and seemingly logical structural changes can go awry.
That is always the worry. Even if your stage 1 & stage 2 trials go without incident, it's impractical to stage 3 and sometimes it's then that problems show up. After all, it was only 1 in 200 people that aminorex seriously harmed but even if 1 subject DID develop heart-valve damage after the trial, you cannot calculate a CI with just 1.
What doses did you take? At higher doses (above say 4mg) I found it upset my stomach. Only benzo I've ever taken that did that. Perhaps it was a bad synth.
Ah, I can answer that one for you. Pyrazolam is a derivative of bromazepam and as well as being anxiolytics, both reduce the production of gastric acid. Doses of 3-6mg are used to treat stomach problems such as gastric ulcers. Of course, pyrazolam being much more potent was never conceived to be used at anything above 1mg.
If you took pyrazolam with something that would increase the pH of the stomach, I expect 4mg would prevent stomach acids from correcting it.
ChemicallyEnhanced
Bluelighter
I'd usually just take one pill at a time (I think I used the 1mg pills and then later, with a bit of tolerance the 2mg pills). I mostly used them when I was using either the 3-fluroro-phenmetrazine or amphetamine sulphate* just to take the edge off if I'd get anxious or jittery as I'd find they calm me down without ruining the high from the stims.
Nifoxipam is another one I really liked.
*I tended to use one of the other periodically but whenever I'd start using one, it would be all day every day [usually using a Xanax bar for sleep every second night] for 2-3 months until I'd develop full-blown psychosis and get sectioned.
ChemicallyEnhanced
Bluelighter
This also makes sense for why I DIDN'T have the stomach issues. My main reason for taking them 3-Fluorophenmetrazine or amphetamine sulphate was to not eat.
JTemperance
Bluelight Crew
Nobody should be allowed to reduce the suffering of opiate withdrawal on their own! The only people in the Land of the Free who should be able decide what you put in your body are doctors, cops, insurance execs, and uncredentialled DEAeaucrats, of course.
And nobody should be enjoying any drugs they take, either! We all know that the only right ways to relieve the pain and monotony of human existence are by taking SSRIs, eating fast food, raging at political enemies, and overspending on techno-novelties.
izo
Bluelighter
It is, at least in Europe and Canada. I tried it and found it to be mediocre. It’s a releaser of dopamine and norepinephrine but not much 5ht release is going on. It’s a little bit better than 3fpm but not much. I don’t get the hype of the phenmetrazines, there are definitely better alternatives out there already.
Really? A p-Me usually increases SERT transport inhibition more. Well, that is why the m-F was chosen. a m-F will increase DAT & NET inhibition. A m-Me would possibly be more balanced. m-Me aminorex is strictly a DAT/NET inhibitor. p-Me is strictly a SERT inhibitor. That's why a 1:2 mixture of m/p emulates MDMA so well. There is some 'golden ratio' of inhibition that produces that very specific MSMA action. I have only found it with MDMA, the mixed AR derivatives and (S)-7-methyl AET.
izo
Bluelighter
I think the pm scaffold is like the pyrovalerones in this regard, so that phenyl ring substitution doesn’t bring anything else than dopamine/norepinephrine releasers/reuptake inhibitors. There was a little serotonergic feeling with both 3fpm and 4mpm but nothing really to talk home about. But anyway as said, no big fan of phenmetrazine derivatives.
Well, plain old phenmetrazine is apparently AMAZING via IV - it was the first drug to be controlled in Sweden specifically because it attracted so much IV use. I think that is because DAT>>NET. It's euphoric but not too stimulating.
izo
Bluelighter
I heard especially from the Swedes that it’s the Most prosexual Amphetamine Derivate there is. Euphoric but not too stimulating I would attribute to fencamfamin/camphetamine. Always wondered why they took it off the market as it has such a low abuse potential.
Yes. fencamfamine and camfentamine are extremely compulsive if used IV. They also have some opiate activity. Naloxone was demonstrated to reverse some of the effects of fencamfamine. If you overlay them with the A ring & B ring of morphine, they fit perfectly. I'm pretty certain that they can easily be modified to increase mu affinity. An n M potency activity overlaid with camfentamine euphoria would be abusable, I believe.
izo
Bluelighter
Ok only trialled camfetamine nasally (which is really painful) and orally and found it to have a pretty low abuse potential via this route. Didn’t found it to have any opioid action, just an easy and rather soft Amphetaminergic high. Good stuff Nonetheless.