• CD Moderators: nepalnt21
  • Cannabis Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules

Physical dependence on cannabis

So profuse sweating, insomnia & lack of appetite (which are also symptoms of "harder" wd's) aren't withdrawal effects? and i'm supposed to just accept this because it's your opinion?

riiiiight. thats great, it doesn't stop you from being wrong though. ;)
 
You make me sick. All Cannabis discussion has become is a bunch of whiny people spouting mostly negative things about the stuff that saved my life.

chill out, all you are doing is contributing to the problem, which is made up, by you. this is not even remotely close to true.

Anyway, to the OP, and all ya'll bickering back and forth, physical withdrawal symptoms can manifest from anything that you become psychologically addicted to: often these are similar w/d symptoms and are, in the grand scale of things, manifested through "minor" w/ds.


I am sure it is the case that there are people who will develop a worse w/d series then others. Think of something like gambling: physical withdrawal symptoms have been seen and noted that are similar to that of cannabis (sweating, nervousness, insomnia, lack of drive, depression, etc etc). Now we cannot say that gambling should have any physical effect on the body, but what we do know from psychopathology is that often the line between mental w/ds and physical w/ds can become blurred based on the addiction level of the agent in question. What I mean is: for some, you will not experience w/ds like this in most cases with cannabis (I for one, in my decade + of smoking, have never experienced anything beyond insomnia), but do not forget that CANNABIS IS A DRUG and all drugs have effects. Anything that alters your chemical balance or works on the mesolimibic system is going to have potential for addiction and thus potential for w/d symptoms, both cognitive and physiologically.

You can go ahead and quote journals all day. I can do a 10 second search in PsycInfo's database and pull up 100s of case studies that try to prove something one way or another, and do so convincingly by data manipulation (very common in psychology - this is why understanding the statistics is important in understanding the study given, conclusions often warp data, I do this myself in reports and it is common practice, unfortunately). Let's not forget that YMMV, cannabis is a drug - although a very mild psychedelic - it can still have w/d symptoms. This is not really debatable - they are observable any many regular users. The fact is, however, the majority who do experience w/ds only experience VERY MILD, SHORT-TERM EFFECTS. I dislike comparison for many reasons, but quitting cannabis is in no way going to bring about the w/d symptoms that say, quitting heroin, would bring about. Psychologically it becomes more blurry to measure with self-reports etc, but physically they are easy to measure through simple observation and data collection.

The first smokers to scream "no, it doesn't" are those who have either not had the experience, known someone who has, or are simply sick of being feed false information about cannabis their entire lives. There is a reason both sides of the debate are hesitant to listen - data manipulation throughout the years has put a sour on the topic in general.
 
I sweat like a pedophile on a school bus when ever I take a break smoking after a binge (some of them lasting years :D), I take extra shirts to work to change into and at night time sleep on the couch or the floor on towels because my wife gets pretty grumpy with me waking up a few times a night freezing & covered in sweat to the point where i look like i've just stepped out of the shower.

mild as it may be that's a physical symptom of withdrawal from heavy cannabis use
 
I see a parallel between tolerance and withdrawals. I'm sure almost everybody who started smoking weed always got really high for the first months without realizing about the tolerance that was building up. I read about it when I was at my beginning of smoking and thought it wasn't real, obviously because I didn't have the experience. But today I definitely believe in tolerance. Also let's not forget that people can react differently from others.

I don't have the experience yet to say if physical withdrawals exist or not, but I realized I sweat more than usual while sleeping when I haven't smoked.
 
There's no physical dependence to cannabis. Unless your talking about very minor aches you might notice when you quit. The only thing i've ever noticed when I stop is lack of appetite, things are a little bit boring, and trouble sleeping.

Your body is probably a little more tense when you quit because it's not relaxed. But when I think of a drug that's physically addictive. I think of an opiate or a benzo. Something that your body needs or it's going to freak out. With weed I just dont see that connection. Chances are you'll feel the same way if you've been addicted to something physically addictive.

There is some discomfort though when you go from smoking everyday to not doing it at all. It just doesn't go along the lines of a physically addictive drug.
 
It's because of receptor down regulation. Get past the first 3-4 days and it gets better. If you used syntetics, it could take longer. Yes receptors stuff can be physical and psychical.

"Something that your body needs or it's going to freak out. With weed I just dont see that connection."
- How will you KNOW how someone feels? If you don't have bad feelings while quitting then be happy but don't disrespect people who have problems while quitting.

The opioidsystem has different functions than the cannabinoidsystem so the "feelings" are surely different ...

You can also use a small dose of 5-htp on the morning of day 2 and 3. Feels normal then emotionally but still won't help with the appetite. Time is the only medicine.
 
I'm an asshole because I have a different opinion than you? Sounds like you got it backwards, my friend.
He said, denying somebody elses symptomes makes you an asshole. I'm not saying you're an asshole, but your first and second post in this thread sure made you come off as one. I also don't wanna keep hacking at you or anything, but I hope you understand why people reacted so strongly to your appearance in the thread. That being said, the question at hand whether there is room for two opinions in the matter is not an easy one. I'm all for scepticism and diversity of opinion. Ofc you could have the opinion the sky is red, but nobody would consider the possibility that this was part of a shared reality.
 
I can only offer personal experience here. I smoked pot daily for almost forty five years and noticed no withdrawals when I finally stopped due to health reasons, mainly emphasema. I was never a cigerette smoker by the way.
 
^ that sounds pretty typical. For those of us who take breaks unwillingly (like lack of supply/money) will notice the w/d effects more as they are pissed off and don't want to quit. When I feel fine otherwise i can quit smoking easier, especially if it's paired with some lifestyle changes.

there's no denying that i get night sweats, extreme irritability, lack/loss of apetite and just a general feeling of shit, not to mention that everything just seems so boring. Those are the most typical w/d effects, you cannot deny them, you can say they are shit compared to opiates/benzos or whatever and I agree but in terms of 'physical dependence' those are the w/d effects, the psychological ones are worse with cannabis for me.

As for the synthetics I can quit them easily - yet there are enough posts in forums about people getting up to ridiculous doses. I smoke the same amount of cannabis as I always have (one bowl per high) and my synthetic doses always stayed the same. Tolerance is sometimes use as an indication that a substance is addictive but i've been smoking for years and years, synths, cannabis, hash, oil and my tolerance is the same. I love am-2201; i just can't see how it's possible to smoke 200mg of it in a day unless the stuff you got was garbage. A few mg would send me off to some spacey land for a few hours. lol
 
What's really impressive is that I keep hearing "everything is boring", "lack of drive" etc., also loss of appetite. I think I've stated this before, but in my case I get crazy munchies (limited to fatty long carbs meals) when I quit and will with 99% reliability be hypomanic. That's the exact opposite of what most people describe. Also, I know cannabis tolerance and how high daily dosages can cause that in the short run. In the long run though I've been experiencing an inverse tolerance to cannabis, seems with every year that passes I become more susceptible to it's effects. I have a suspicion that the tolerance really only falls each time I quit (for a few days) and never fully recovers. Really odd. This circumstance really only allows me to smoke pot though, I couldn't finance it if my tolerance was at the level it was 10 years ago...

Lots of interesting posts so far, I'm really glad the tone changed a little.

@Chainer
I really liked your post, though I do think we need to discriminate addiction and dependency more clearly. I have had a short love affair with poker (both online and irl) before and winning a tournament sometimes made me so shaky, that the tremor would render me unable to properly use the keyboard for a little while. Can't say I've had much trouble quitting because I only did it for a few weeks, but the euphoria induced by winning large games seemed more powerful than that caused by a fat hit of crack. I was quite surprised by that to say the least and as good as it felt, it was just as much of a warning sign! :D

^ that sounds pretty typical. For those of us who take breaks unwillingly (like lack of supply/money) will notice the w/d effects more as they are pissed off and don't want to quit. When I feel fine otherwise i can quit smoking easier, especially if it's paired with some lifestyle changes.
I kicked pot many many times, usually intentionally, in order to utilize the borderline manic state this causes. I just prepare for a crazy night of extremely vivid dreams (I even remember dreams on pot every night) and ofc lots of sweat to bathe in.
Only once did I not have pot at home without planning for that to happen and it seemed a thousand times more rough than it usually is. I was crawling up the walls lol. My daughter was sound asleep so I couldn't even leave the house to go for a walk or anything, let alone chain smoke cigarettes in the apartment or use the pc which is in her room. Ended up spending my time between laying in bed wide awake and idling on the kitchen floor until she rose in the morning. :D Never gonna let that happen again lol.
 
Last edited:
The CB-2 related anti-inflammation effects that are very medicinal for my tendinitis is a physically dependent property, not like I'll have withdrawals, but I have to constantly stay medicated to not have a higher degree of inflammation. =D
 
The CB-2 related anti-inflammation effects that are very medicinal for my tendinitis is a physically dependent property, not like I'll have withdrawals, but I have to constantly stay medicated to not have a higher degree of inflammation. =D
Tehe I think that are just "medical benefits". Do you get any sort of serious rebound when quitting though? Is the pain more intense when quitting or do you reliable suffer episodes of inflammation upon quitting? I've tried to treat my joint problems with pot and went through the greatest oddyssey to get ahold of some trainwreck cuttings (as a Californian, you probably wouldn't have as much trouble. mind you im in germany). Can't say it helped much better than any other strains I've tried, the only ones that never did the trick were Kali Mist and NYC Diesel. :D
In the end, I don't think I'm experiencing any medical benefits aside from pot preventing me to slip into mania or depression. Large amounts will reliably trigger minor dysthymia on the next day though and quitting triggers hypomania (only had one manic episode before, but I'm sure that could potentially happen as well). As long as I keep the dosage constant and stick to one strain my affective state is pretty levelled out... But physical health wise... It feels more like it puts a strain on my body than anything else (still nothing overly worrysome).
 
So profuse sweating, insomnia & lack of appetite (which are also symptoms of "harder" wd's) aren't withdrawal effects? and i'm supposed to just accept this because it's your opinion?

riiiiight. thats great, it doesn't stop you from being wrong though. ;)

You need to calm down bro I didn't say that there weren't physical withdrawal symptoms I actually said that I have experinced them but for me it wasn't anything I couldnt overcome after a few days. But when you talk about being DEPENDENT on weed I don't see how. Are you going to fucking die if you don't have weed? Tell someone who is dependent on heroin that you can't kick your weed habit and he will laugh in your face. There are lots of story's about people being addicted and people not being addicted so don't go saying because you can find those negative story's that you are right and everyone else's opinion is wrong. Makes you sound like a jack ass
 
PHYSICAL dependence on Cannabis? I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Not even for a second.


Just because the mild withdrawals such as loss of appetite are physical sensations, doesn't mean it's a physical dependence.
 
Are you going to fucking die if you don't have weed?
Well if that's your definition of dependence, I guess you weren't really heroin dependent either... I was gonna suggest that straight line for dependence that earlier, but kept myself from it zo restore peace. ;)

The question really seems to be the definition of dependence because most seem to agree that there can be physical withdrawal symptoms. It's actually an undeniable fact, so please let's not get into uninformed delusional talk about how these things are "all in the head".

So what is the definition of dependence?

Defining terms

According to the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV), substance dependence is defined as:

When an individual persists in use of alcohol or other drugs despite problems related to use of the substance, substance dependence may be diagnosed. Compulsive and repetitive use may result in tolerance to the effect of the drug and withdrawal symptoms when use is reduced or stopped. This, along with Substance Abuse are considered Substance Use Disorders....[1]

Substance dependence can be diagnosed with physiological dependence, evidence of tolerance or withdrawal, or without physiological dependence.

By the American Society of Addiction Medicine definition, drug addiction differs from drug dependence and drug tolerance.[3] It is, both among scientists and other writers, quite usual to allow the concept of drug addiction to include persons who are not drug abusers according to the definition of the American Society of Addiction Medicine. The term drug addiction is then used as a category which may include the same persons who, under the DSM-IV, can be given the diagnosis of substance dependence or substance abuse. (See also DSM-IV Codes)

The terms abuse and addiction have been defined and re-defined over the years. The 1957 World Health Organization (WHO) Expert Committee on Addiction-Producing Drugs defined addiction and habituation as components of drug abuse:

Drug addiction is a state of periodic or chronic intoxication produced by the repeated consumption of a drug (natural or synthetic). Its characteristics include: (i) an overpowering desire or need (compulsion) to continue taking the drug and to obtain it by any means; (ii) a tendency to increase the dose; (iii) a psychic (psychological) and generally a physical dependence on the effects of the drug; and (iv) detrimental effects on the individual and on society.

Drug habituation (habit) is a condition resulting from the repeated consumption of a drug. Its characteristics include (i) a desire (but not a compulsion) to continue taking the drug for the sense of improved well-being which it engenders; (ii) little or no tendency to increase the dose; (iii) some degree of psychic dependence on the effect of the drug, but absence of physical dependence and hence of an abstinence syndrome [withdrawal], and (iv) detrimental effects, if any, primarily on the individual.

In 1964, a new WHO committee found these definitions to be inadequate, and suggested using the blanket term "drug dependence":

The definition of addiction gained some acceptance, but confusion in the use of the terms addiction and habituation and misuse of the former continued. Further, the list of drugs abused increased in number and diversity. These difficulties have become increasingly apparent and various attempts have been made to find a term that could be applied to drug abuse generally. The component in common appears to be dependence, whether psychic or physical or both. Hence, use of the term "drug dependence", with a modifying phase linking it to a particular drug type in order to differentiate one class of drugs from another, had been given most careful consideration. The Expert Committee recommends substitution of the term "drug dependence" for the terms "drug addiction" and "drug habituation".

The committee did not clearly define dependence, but did go on to clarify that there was a distinction between physical and psychological ("psychic") dependence. It said that drug abuse was "a state of psychic dependence or physical dependence, or both, on a drug, arising in a person following administration of that drug on a periodic or continued basis." Psychic dependence was defined as a state in which "there is a feeling of satisfaction and psychic drive that requires periodic or continuous administration of the drug to produce pleasure or to avoid discomfort" and all drugs were said to be capable of producing this state:

There is scarcely any agent which can be taken into the body to which some individuals will not get a reaction satisfactory or pleasurable to them, persuading them to continue its use even to the point of abuse – that is, to excessive or persistent use beyond medical need.

The 1957 and 1964 definitions of addiction, dependence and abuse persist to the present day in medical literature. It should be noted that at this time (2006) the Diagnostic Statistical Manual (DSM-IV-TR) now spells out specific criteria for defining abuse and dependence. (DSM-IV-TR) uses the term substance dependence instead of addiction; a maladaptive pattern of substance abuse, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) specified criteria, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period. This definition is also applicable on drugs with smaller or nonexistent physical signs of withdrawal, e.g., cannabis.

In 2001, the American Academy of Pain Medicine, the American Pain Society, and the American Society of Addiction Medicine jointly issued "Definitions Related to the Use of Opioids for the Treatment of Pain", which defined the following terms:[3]

Addiction is a primary, chronic, neurobiologic disease, with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. It is characterized by behaviors that include one or more of the following: impaired control over drug use, compulsive use, continued use despite harm, and craving.

Physical dependence is a state of being that is manifested by a drug class specific withdrawal syndrome that can be produced by abrupt cessation, rapid dose reduction, decreasing blood level of the drug, and/or administration of an antagonist.

Tolerance is the body's physical adaptation to a drug: greater amounts of the drug are required over time to achieve the initial effect as the body "gets used to" and adapts to the intake.

Pseudo addiction is a term which has been used to describe patient behaviors that may occur when pain is undertreated. Patients with unrelieved pain may become focused on obtaining medications, may "clock watch," and may otherwise seem inappropriately "drug seeking." Even such behaviors as illicit drug use and deception can occur in the patient's efforts to obtain relief. Pseudoaddiction can be distinguished from true addiction in that the behaviors resolve when pain is effectively treated.

A definition of addiction proposed by professor Nils Bejerot:

An emotional fixation (sentiment) acquired through learning, which intermittently or continually expresses itself in purposeful, stereotyped behavior with the character and force of a natural drive, aiming at a specific pleasure or the avoidance of a specific discomfort.[4]

see wiki for sources lol



"Physical dependence is a state of being that is manifested by a drug class specific withdrawal syndrome that can be produced by abrupt cessation, rapid dose reduction, decreasing blood level of the drug, and/or administration of an antagonist."

That's pretty much what I have considered dependence to be as well. "Drug class specific withdrawal syndrome" has been said earlier in the thread. It makes no statement of severity, like "death" as an obligatory complication of dependence. If you do not agree to this, then at least draw a straight line and don't just talk out of your ass.
 
Last edited:
I think cannabis has enough of a self-deterrent effect on me when I use it enough, that I only end up using it rather sparingly.

My friend uses it like constantly. Like a quarter a week. I can make a quarter last six months to a year easy. I also vape usually, which helps.

When I get too high on it to get into a state of near-ecstasy (probably something to do with the amplification of senses, but I can make myself feel really, really, really good, almost like hovering in a ball of light with my senses overwhelmed) I am usually also in a state where I am extremely self-judgmental, paranoid, and nihilistic. So it's a state that I tend not to enjoy to be in too much. It does have a "dirty" feel to it. Though nothing like the "dirty as shit" feeling that salvia brought me.
 
I believe that cannabis withdrawal is real, in the full medical sense. If I smoke for a few months daily and quit, I notice DEFINANT symptoms of withdrawal. Some of the symptoms I experience include: “feeling on the edge” (kind of like anxiety, but not exactly), taking much longer to fall asleep, profuse sweating while sleeping, intense dreams, and an extreme inability to eat.

Now I claim to be no expert in pharmacology by any means, but don’t we know that the endocannabinoid system helps regulate appetite, stress, awakeness, and other physical and psychological phenomena? If so, when we take in large amounts of cannabinoid agonists over an extended period of time, then our cannabinoid receptors down regulate. So after you stop smoking, your endocannabinoids have less receptors to bind to, and thus experience withdrawl. For example, you smoke some weed, get hungry, tired, and relaxed. Then you decide to stop smoking for a while, and you experience the opposite, no appetite, inability to sleep, and feeling on the edge.

If I am wrong, please do correct me, but isn’t this the basis of withdrawal? Cannabis works like most other drugs, by binding to neurotransmitter receptors. People using drugs like opiates or benzos experience withdrawal through the same mechanism, but the systems they effect (opioid, GABA), have much more “psychological activity.” This results in a withdrawal, like cannabis, just more intense. Just because you can experience withdrawal from xanax, heroin, and alcohol, doesn’t mean you can’t withdrawal from cannabis, caffeine, and tobacco. The only different is in the intensity of withdrawal.

But yeah crook, I agree with you. Many people don’t care to find out the truth, for whatever reason. Perhaps they only experience a very mild withdrawal, due to the large physiological variance amongst people. So when someone says “hey I am withdrawing from cannabis”, they just pass it off as BS. I have been smoking for a little over a year, and was brought into the culture thinking it’s completely harmless, because I thought I did my research. Unlucky for me, both sides of the argument, pro-cannabis and anti-cannabis, are filled with lies and propaganda to further their position (just like anything in life). What we need is more scientific research into this area… fuck I forgot this shit is illegal for some reason.

I am by no means trying to bash cannabis at all; I will probably smoke it on and off for the rest of my life, but a lot of people are just straight up lying to their selves.
 
And if you think it is, I'm sorry but you have no idea what real withdrawals are.

Agree with this. I always used to argue for years that I was addicted to cannabis, until I got morphine withdrawals last week. That put it all into perspective really. I laugh at myself now for thinking it gave me withdrawal symptoms, when it was just mild anxiety compared to real withdrawal.

I am not trying to say it is easy to quit weed, it is definitely habit forming, just not physically addictive.
 
Top