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Physical dependence on cannabis

What I keep getting from the two of you, is that I'm wrong, you're right?


Funny, that's the same exact vibe I got from you:


I don't care what people say, Cannabis withdrawals do no exist in a physical sense.


And now


J.Wallace said:
I've already said I understand everyone reacts differently, and I'm not denying you two don't experience what you'd consider withdrawals. What I don't understand, is why it's so hard for you to understand that to me, these are not withdrawals. This is just my person opinion, it's just that, an opinion. It's not fact. It's just my own view on it. So why is that so hard to accept?


it's all a question of semantics? What we consider withdrawals you may not? Lol, no, my friend, the only reason I butted in on this conversation was because you adamantly claim that cannabis abstinence carries with it zero physical withdrawal symptoms. I don't have any problem with your opinions/views or the fact that you express them... my problem starts when people start spewing out opinions in a manner that makes their own views and beliefs seem concrete to more gullible readers around here.
 
it's all a question of semantics? What we consider withdrawals you may not? Lol, no, my friend, the only reason I butted in on this conversation was because you adamantly claim that cannabis abstinence carries with it zero physical withdrawal symptoms. I don't have any problem with your opinions/views or the fact that you express them... my problem starts when people start spewing out opinions in a manner that makes their own views and beliefs seem concrete to more gullible readers around here.

Well, in that case I apologize. I have a tendency of spewing out shit and saying things in ways I don't really mean to say. Sometimes I just assume people will take what I say as just opinion, and then sometimes I go overboard by saying shit that makes that not even possible. So, again, I apologize.

I still stand by my "opinion" that Cannabis withdrawal does not exist. I have never experienced such a thing, so I can't say it does. However, I'm not against the idea that it could exist. Anything is possible, after all. Until a study comes out that explains in every possible detail of how Cannabis is physically addictive' my opinion will always be it doesn't exist and that it's all made up in the mind. Again though, just an opinion, and probably a flawed one at that but hey, it's what I think in this moment no matter how wrong or ridiculous it may be.
 
I still stand by my "opinion" that Cannabis withdrawal does not exist. I have never experienced such a thing, so I can't say it does. However, I'm not against the idea that it could exist. Anything is possible, after all.



That's how I feel about Australia. ;)


Until a study comes out that explains in every possible detail of how Cannabis is physically addictive' my opinion will always be it doesn't exist and that it's all made up in the mind. Again though, just an opinion, and probably a flawed one at that but hey, it's what I think in this moment no matter how wrong or ridiculous it may be.


You're actually in the mainstream majority with your stance on this. I'm on the other side because if I abstain from smoking for about 1-2 days I'll start sweating PROFUSELY-- to the point where I need to carry around several undershirts with me wherever I go because shit gets cold when you're got a sweat-drenched undershirt on. To me, sweating is physical. The insomnia I experience? That's physical as well thanks to my cannabis use disrupting the production of certain neurotransmitters that help control sleep (I'll back that one up later, I can't remember for the life of me which neurotransmitter I'm referring to... I'm positive it's not melatonin or serotonin, though). Cold sweats? Shit, if sweating isn't physical then I'm not quite sure I grasp the meaning of the word.


The worst, though? My tremors come out like a BITCH when I'm not smoking. I'm talking Michael-J.-Fox-Parkinson's tremors in my hand.
 
What I keep getting from the two of you, is that I'm wrong, you're right.
Who comes only secondary (at best) to discussing the matter at hand. Unfortunately we have not really gotten to that point, but instead are trying to get you there because you did not want to have a discussion with arguments and all that. It can get heated and it can get personal (imho), but at least it should never directly be insulting and always be focussed on the matter of the discussion. Which is: See, I don't even know. You might have a point, I am doing something very similar to you. I do easily react like that when someone brings a discussion down to this personal level where we than bounce around aimlessly for a while until the group hugging starts (in an ideal scenario).

I probably shouldn't have started this fight by saying something along the lines of "a lot of people do not believe me when I say cannabis use causes dependence".

That being said, I am still of the strong believe that it does and base this claim on scientific evidence on one hand AND personal experience on the other (trust me, I'd like to say I don't know about what other drugs can do). A lot of other people here laid out their opinions as well which fortifies my belief. You did not even argue against it per se, you just draw the line somewhere else. If I got you right that is...

Can we agree to just disagree about where we are drawing the line before we characterize a substance as "primarily" causing physical dependence or simply being addictive?
 
You're actually in the mainstream majority with your stance on this. I'm on the other side because if I abstain from smoking for about 1-2 days I'll start sweating PROFUSELY-- to the point where I need to carry around several undershirts with me wherever I go because shit gets cold when you're got a sweat-drenched undershirt on. To me, sweating is physical. The insomnia I experience? That's physical as well thanks to my cannabis use disrupting the production of certain neurotransmitters that help control sleep (I'll back that one up later, I can't remember for the life of me which neurotransmitter I'm referring to... I'm positive it's not melatonin or serotonin, though). Cold sweats? Shit, if sweating isn't physical then I'm not quite sure I grasp the meaning of the word.
Tehehe, I always carry a few spare wifebeaters to Uni with me and go take a "bum bath" at the bathroom sink every 2-3h. When I cease to use cannabis that is, not on regular summer days. ;P

What I don't understand, is why it's so hard for you to understand that to me, these are not withdrawals. This is just my person opinion, it's just that, an opinion. It's not fact. It's just my own view on it. So why is that so hard to accept?
We do accept is as your view, but are talking about facts when harm reduction is the focus.

When there's a thread about your overall favourite, the tastiest or the easiest to grow strain, then your opinion might be of interest. ;P
 
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What is so tragic about these situations and what has to be attributed to *our* behaviour as well, is that you know exactly: The next time this issue comes up anywhere else, J.Wallace will be the first one to loudly pronounce that cannabis does NOT cause withdrawals. :/
 
What is so tragic about these situations and what has to be attributed to *our* behaviour as well, is that you know exactly: The next time this issue comes up anywhere else, J.Wallace will be the first one to loudly pronounce that cannabis does NOT cause withdrawals. :/

Dude, piss off. I already apologized and said what I had to say.
 
To OP I didn't read your full reply but I wasn't trying to provoke you. I was just stating my opinion, try not to overreact next time. Think of drugs like meth it has been said they cause no physical withdrawals but when you see someone coming down from that shit you think otherwise but the mind can work wonders.
 
This dude is either a Pharmaceutical president, DEA Agent, or just a ringer to convince us that my medicine is addictive. In my eyes, you should just cut it out if you're seriously "addicted" to weed.

You make me sick. All Cannabis discussion has become is a bunch of whiny people spouting mostly negative things about the stuff that saved my life.
 
in the same sense i get nicotine and caffeine withdrawals. The reason people don't take cannabis that seriously in terms of addiction; a) very little harm to public and user/s b) regular cannabis will not cause a severe w/d (sure maybe synthetics will but they haven't in me). c) the w/d from a heavy cannabis habit is MILD to put it lightly compared to alcohol/benzo/opiate w/d. Not only in length but intensity.

Sure there are some noticeable effects that last a few days but in a week or two (at most), you are back to normal. If you had a medical issue you were using cannabis for then you can expect those issues to return and if you want to call that w/d then fine. Only in severe cases would a person then have a strong w/d from cannabis.

I still would prefer not to quit synthetics or cannabis, i do not function properly or lead a happy life when i don't use either nightly, but it's not the end of the world when i can't, like coming off a 8mg/day kpin cold turkey habit or dilaudid or whatever else.
 
This dude is either a Pharmaceutical president, DEA Agent, or just a ringer to convince us that my medicine is addictive. In my eyes, you should just cut it out if you're seriously "addicted" to weed.

You make me sick. All Cannabis discussion has become is a bunch of whiny people spouting mostly negative things about the stuff that saved my life.

It can be addictive, just like caffeine,sex, and gambling.I know for sure, I've seen countless people addicted psychologically and there is no denying they're addicted to pot. God forbid that cannabis has any negative side effects for some, not everyone has the same reaction. I don't see any body whining, its good that you think it saved your life but there's no need to undermine other people.
 
The key here is the difference between addiction and dependence. When your body relies on a foreign substance (foreign meaning something what grows or is produced outside the body) to achieve equilibrium, that is dependence. I have yet to come across a substance that can not form dependence (even sugar and salt are culprits - tolerance, length of time using the substance, and your body's pre-existing state will determine whether the changes are noticeable), so it's pretty safe to say that one's body can become dependent on weed. (Not that I mind being dependent on weed. Sometimes you need somebody to lean on. %) )

Addiction is the psych bit. I'm sure there are some personalities out there who feel they're addicted to pot just like some people are addicted to eating weird shit; it depends on the person.
 
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I'm gonna go with J wallace, I HAF NEVA SEEN DA WITHDRAWLZ SO DEY DONT EXIST.

Actually, no wait i'm gonna come back to the real world. & admit that if I stop toking for a day or two (another daily toker here.) i'll lose my appetite, be pissed off/unable to sleep etc etc. And whilst they're mild wd effects that any normal person can work through. they're wd effects nonetheless.

Just because you've had to deal with some more extreme wd effects doesn't mean that isn't what they are. Personally I think anyone who can't get over the effects of cannabis wd is a pussy. But anybody denying the symptoms is an asshole.
 
How can you be physically addicted to .2g of weed a day? After a week it'd do nothing for you.
 
Tbh I hardly get physical or mental withdrawl symptoms now...

I used to the first few times I tried taking breaks. Infact it was pretty bad then

but after a while it got easier and easier to stop when I wanted to take breaks for whatever reason.
it got the the point where now if I stop I dont get any wothdrawls . Mental or physical . its awesome .

anyone else experience this ?
 
This dude is either a Pharmaceutical president, DEA Agent, or just a ringer to convince us that my medicine is addictive. In my eyes, you should just cut it out if you're seriously "addicted" to weed.

You make me sick. All Cannabis discussion has become is a bunch of whiny people spouting mostly negative things about the stuff that saved my life.
You're obviously a f***ing moron if you believe what you are saying about me and my "agenda"... Also, how fucking whiney does someone have to be to claim cannabis saved his life anyway? I mean seriously, what sort of weakling would depend on pot to survive?? LOL! Do you mean it improved your quality of life cause you were a whiny suicidal b**ch before you started getting stoned? Or are you actually saying it "saved your life" as in "it cured a deadly disease"? Please do tell!
Enjoying this level of conversation? You should probably consider cutting down on the cannabis abuse then, it not only causes everyone who smokes it to turn into a grumpy fuck (look at me), but can also cause instant death and long term use will lead into killing-spree type insanity in most cases. ^^ Let me know if you want this to turn into a conversation again btw.

@alantis360
It has been said numerous times by various users, but I'll let you know again. For me most symptoms are related to sweating it seems, which might in turn be related to slight hyperthermia, but I'm really not sure about that, I'm not an expert on cannabis either (just have a 12 year love affair with this wonderful plant). Anyway, I will sweat so profusely on the first or second night (depending on dosage during the last couple of days), that I will lose around 2kg bodyweight during that night. This will not only cause my sheets to still be soaking wet at nighttime, but also I am assuming that my other symptoms are caused by this loss of water. I then most notably have a headache throughout the day and joint pain during the morning hours. The sweating should really just result in a hypertonic dehydration from what I know, which would explain those symptoms, but somehow electrolytes must further shift or maybe my morning diarrhea (of respectable intensity) which completes the triade is just an underlying condition or also a result of ceasing to use the drug.
All in all it's really nothing that makes me suffer anything like, say a proper tummy ache. Comparing the level of discomfort to opiates, I'd have to go for about 4 weeks 24/7 on oral oxy or tramadol to experience anything similar, past which opioid withdrawals skyrocket in intensity and of course will make these cannabis withdrawals look like a joke. The funny part is that mentally, I feel like a million dollars when I stop using pot. While I'm feeling the physical discomfort that is. Whoever has experienced some major hypomania before or even mania, knows it can come with some physical symptoms as well which I personally gladly accept for the feeling of omnipotence and the same goes for cannabis use which I have actually stopped intentionally before to utilize the mania this induces for me.

The two main recurring symptoms/symptom complexes after the cessation of use described by most users arte sweating and gi problems, the latter in most cases being limited to loss of appetite, but sometimes causing people to vomit upon the attempt to eat. These are just my own observations, do not prove anything though and should not be treated as if they should prove anything. I really have to find some proper information on this topic instead of just posting random bits and pieces...
 
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Tbh I hardly get physical or mental withdrawl symptoms now...

I used to the first few times I tried taking breaks. Infact it was pretty bad then

but after a while it got easier and easier to stop when I wanted to take breaks for whatever reason.
it got the the point where now if I stop I dont get any wothdrawls . Mental or physical . its awesome .

anyone else experience this ?
That's funny, they only came after years of use for me. In the first few years, all I experienced was some insomnia. I wasn't even sure if that was caused by the cannabis use back then, I assumed it's just my mind playing tricks on me because I wanted to smoke pot so badly. :D

What's even funnier is that using for only a single day in an episode of no use (have extended those to 4-5wks max before), this will totally reduce my appetite on the next day, so I'll end with abut 50% caloric intake throughout the day. This will stick troughout my episodes of use. Most people describe the exact opposite. I remember one guy recommended it to me to increase my maximum caloric intake past 4-5000kcal/d during bodybuilding days. :D Does the exact opposite for me though. Once I stop now, I get the craziest long carb munchies. I could kill for say some french fries or garlic bread lol, something I never crave when I'm in an episode of daily smoking... So odd how some of it's effects on me are completely inverse in other users.
 
But anybody denying the symptoms is an asshole.

I'm an asshole because I have a different opinion than you? Sounds like you got it backwards, my friend.

It seems every one is jumping on the band wagon and taking me for a prick. Look, I have my opinion, you have yours. I personally feel it has no withdrawal symptoms. I don't consider lack of sleep or loss of appetite to be withdrawal symptoms, I consider them to be me getting stoned too often and getting use to relying on the munchies to eat, and relying on me passing out to sleep. You can say it's physical all you want, I say show me the evidence it's not placebo causing you to feel like shit. Can you? Produce an article, a study, anything, that proves it's not placebo and not our own mind playing tricks on us. Please, prove me wrong. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong if you do. Until then, stop being a bunch of cry babies and learn to accept other peoples personal opinions, no matter how fucking stupid or far out they may be.
 
Well the way I see it is some people get addicted to nicotine or alcohol really easy when I can't see how people possibly could. There are also people who can smoke meth and not really care for it. I think it is very possible that it is more of a genetic thing really. Some people are just born to be addicted to certain things. And yes I have experienced these very minor withdrawal symptoms you are talking about but they go away within a week and now I don't even get them at all when I stop. So for most people I think it really is mind over matter
 
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