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Pharmacological options in the treatment of addiction

The placebo effect would have shown with other substances, you understand me wrong it IS a behavor issue in people with a neurochemistry making them prone for it, but if the brain isnt prone to it, its not a behavor issue and i beleive with pharmaceuticals its possible to make our brains like that.

I have major binge and compulsive dosing issue with stims.

Took a amp dose after a few hours it wore off, kicked in 30 min ago but its not enough and feel tired, i could use more amp but i'm just sitting here and stalling to take it, its like there's no urge to get high at all, its abolished, didnt even take g either i know it will make me feel good but dont feel interested.

Its still day 1 but i'm baffled, if this continue's for a few weeks and also works for other ppl we can cure addiction just like this? Was i right that its only in the brain and had nothing to do with behaver? We will see.

EDIT: the last 2 hours i feel i have underdosed amp and feel very tired but still didnt take any, no urge at all, need to motivate myself, this is just.. incredible

All the substances i added have shown effiacy in addiction, i beleive in polypharmacy wich those compounds we can have INCREDIBLE effects in addicts.

How would be know wheter its placebo? Let others try this shit, this thread is not much differend from the nmda antagonist thread, if we have alot of anecdotals confirming we can carefully conclude its not placebo.

OPTIMISM or WISHFULL THINKING call it what you like, but in the past we had a handfull of nmda antagonist skeptics for tolerance, and look what lind of information my optimism or wishfull thinking has brought forward.
 
SangerRainsford said:
You have to remember how much the "placebo effect" can play into such things, but either way it IS a behavioral issue. To say it's a behavioral issue depending on brain neurochemistry is almost redundant tho, isn't it? Behavior is entirely dependent upon neurochemical factors.
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Also remember that only at the first phase addiction in prone individuals is a behaveral issue, after that they are stuck into an addiction and isnt behavor the biggest player anymore.
 
Hours later drugs are only working mildly didnt redose, still didnt take any g no intrest.

I personally beleive that there is some synergy in my combination that completely hijacks the mechanisms mediating addiction, and would like others to try my combination.
I beleive the synergism is alpha3beta4 antagonism, NMDA antagonism, GABAB agonism and D3 antagonism, all are highly involved in addiction and i'm targetting them all togheter. mglur2 and 3 also play a role and are targetted by NAC, GABA agonism is helpfull too togheter with a decrease in glutamate caused by gabapentin.

I do personally beleive a combination targetting all major pathways is essential.

In other cases besides that treatment of an underlying disorder where an addiction is caused by self medication is essential, also anhedonia has to be releived for long term succes.
 
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Its the next day morning now, most things left my system, i noticed i started craving amp and wanted to get high instead of using it therapeutically, also took a way higher dose of amp then on my addiction regime, all improvements reversed, i popped all my meds lets see wheter i'm addiction free again.

Im high on amp now, its interesting to see how over time when those meds leave my system i return back to my old addictive personality and all changes get reversed, now once i took everything again i should go back to my previous state hopefully, and next time need to time dosing better so i dose before things leave my system, so i dont take a recreational amp dose like i did now after all improvements went away.
 
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Well no motivation on this recreational dose i still felt amp a bit last night but was getting pretty sober and had no more intrest in getting high, but didnt go to sleep wich is again druggy behavor, even tough i didnt really care about getting high and felt pretty sober most of the time, i should have used a downer to induce sleep.

After a certain time i started feeling like how i was before, a huge urge to get high so took a recreational dose of amp in the morning here, afterwards took my addiction regime, which for some reason makes me realise how fucking stupid it was to take a recreational dose of amp now, probably because baclofen abolishes dopamine release in some mesolimbic area's shifting balance to the prefrontal cortex, i also dont want more amp at all, feel pissed i'm on such a high dose now, when i take a therapeutic dose i feel satisfied and dont want more even with all amp next to me, i attribute that to the combination i explained above.

One mistake, but im getting there.

Recreational dose of amp in the morning with no-one online, wtf is this bullshit, waste's money too. ( i used to love this, good to see my thinking isnt owned by the mesolimbic pathways on this combination).
 
I do feel some motivation creeping up now, gues took more time for my meds to kick in, i would definatly prefer a lower dose of amp now, its interesting how dramatically my regime changed my addictive behavor, but feeling normal and hanging outside, doing fun stuff and being motivated seems FAR more sexy then being high and listening music all day to me now.
 
DAY2

I am sleep deprived tough, after my meds stopped working i suddenly took a high recreational dose of amphetamine wich i regretted after my anti addiction combo kicked in, after the recreational dose was over i still have the same effects, if i take a therapeutic dose of amphetamine i DONT WANT more, its not like its easier to say no i just dont want it.

Also my mental GBL addiction completely vanished and even tough it makes me feel good, i take it hours later as i'm to lazy, im just so indifferend for drugs its crazy, i have no addictive personality at all anymore (untill my drugs wear off).

Right now im pretty tired as amp has pretty much stopped working and i'm sitting here browing the internet without any craving whatsoever and can it for a while before i can motivate myself to take my drug, quite a change having to use your own motivation instead the reinforcing effects of drugs doing it for you.
 
I'm kind of confused, it seems you keep posting "it works and helps addiction" and "I've relapsed" successively. If a product is helping addiction, I wouldn't really expect that kind of anecdotal report, and don't get how you have such high hopes on it. I'm sorry if this is taken the wrong way, as I mean nothing hurtful or negative by the following, but it almost comes across like "advanced junky-reasoning" here. You seem like you're positive you have this chemical-handle* on beating addiction, yet continually post of disappointments with having used again.
(*I'd also say that, if drugs are the only crutch to keep one off of addiction, then they are still addicted IMO. This harkens back to the talks on methadone replacing heroin, but I'm starting to think we may as well toss AA/NA and naloxone into the mix, the addiction isn't beaten until the person can live comfortably w/o ANY intervention/help IMO.)
 
SangerRainsford said:
I'm kind of confused, it seems you keep posting "it works and helps addiction" and "I've relapsed" successively. If a product is helping addiction, I wouldn't really expect that kind of anecdotal report, and don't get how you have such high hopes on it. I'm sorry if this is taken the wrong way, as I mean nothing hurtful or negative by the following, but it almost comes across like "advanced junky-reasoning" here. You seem like you're positive you have this chemical-handle* on beating addiction, yet continually post of disappointments with having used again.
(*I'd also say that, if drugs are the only crutch to keep one off of addiction, then they are still addicted IMO. This harkens back to the talks on methadone replacing heroin, but I'm starting to think we may as well toss AA/NA and naloxone into the mix, the addiction isn't beaten until the person can live comfortably w/o ANY intervention/help IMO.)
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Im just posting my log to check wheter my beleives are correct, if i gonna bingr on amp again in the future then so be it and id post it.

My addiction also is differend from most, i can only binge on amphetamine when i have it, i'm not really addicted to any drug as i often run out of dex.

I also am binging on mpa now and amp now as its weekend and then its drugtime for me, its mostly important i use low doses during the week, and with those pharmaceutical approuches i will try wheter it works and post a log about it.

I was impressed by the effects of those drugs, they had dramatic effects on me,atleast that was my first impression, i need to give this a trial of several weelks

Its important to note that my relapse occured exactly when most of those drugs left my system, it was a sudden increase in craving wich IMO supports the succesfullness of those drugs.
 
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SangerRainsford said:
Isn't that just a giant contradiction? That's like saying "I'm not addicted to benzos when I shoot dope".
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Not really, i love taking GBL and on those drugs i didnt care about it at all, my mental addiction to all drugs was gone, thats what i ment.
 
It was gone while on drugs. GBL or whatever else doesn't change the fact you explicitly said "I have no addictive personality anymore (until my drugs wear off)". I'm sorry but I think all you're establishing are things that help with, at most, maintenance/between doses. It doesn't seem you've scratched the skin of your addiction though. Tolerance levels, perhaps, but not addiction.
 
I beleive we just use the same words for differend things we want to say and that we have siome misunderstandings, im way to fucked now so will post more tomorrow.
 
In this context, these words have very specific meanings, I know you're aware of them by having read many of your past threads on this subject, def post when you're rested (or amp'd enough that rest isn't needed!)
;P
 
I ment i didnt have a addictive personality whatsoever when i'm on the meds, i'm sitting here sober sleep deprived after 2 nights with amp and g next to me and dont feel any urge to take them, just enjoying browsing the internet.
 
DAY 3

Shitload of amp in my position but didnt take any, ive been up since 9 its now allmost 4 PM, all that time didnt take my GBL either wich is normally crave like crazy, only just now a dose, maybe il take a therapeutic amp dose tonight.

Normally id be popping amps like crazy from early morning togheter with G.

Yesterday had a huge drug binge tough but thats what the saterdays are far haha.
 
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MeDieViL said:
I ment i didnt have a addictive personality whatsoever when i'm on the meds, i'm sitting here sober sleep deprived after 2 nights with amp and g next to me and dont feel any urge to take them, just enjoying browsing the internet.
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On the level that *you* want me to take that from, all I'd respond with is the fact that "no urge" right now is irrelevant for two reasons: you still have your drug of choice in your system, and your anecdotal reporting on this is clearly VERY biased given the hypothesis you're trying to prove.

BUT, the truth is that where I don't think you're getting me is right here:
"I meant I didn't have an addictive personality whatsoever when I'm on the meds"
The thing is that does NOT mean you don't have an addictive personality anymore. Addiction is NOT a temporary little period between binges. Many (most? all?) people with addictions absolutely have periods between doses where they can handle not using, it's the repeatedly going back to it that is the addiction. You seem to have just found, at best*, a solution to ease withdrawals/cravings during the lapses between dosing. When you go 6mo w/o taking amp, then I'd see some merit in what you're saying.
((*I say "at best" because the combination of your bias in wanting it to work for you, your bias in wanting to prove it to others, and the fact that while using the 'anti-addictives' you engage in heavy "drug masturbation" online. These things still leave me wondering how much of the effect would have been there if, say, your tap water was spiked w/ your 'stack' instead of you taking it in the manner you do))
 
And before disagreeing with that, consider that you've already seemed to have admitted you agree with the gist of where I'm coming from, see here:

MeDieViL said:
That is only with regards to tolerance, in my case tolerance has been beaten, but that doesnt mean you cant be addicted to a substance, tolerance is the major issue of addiction tough.

In my case i cant take my ADHD medication as prescribed, i only binge on it, no tolerance tough but that doesnt mean i no longer have any issues with a substance.
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That's what I meant about words having very specific meanings. It is not okay to just interchange the terms "addiction" and "tolerance". A pain patient may be on 200mg of oxycodone daily for several years. Even if used properly, they WILL have "tolerance" and they will have "physical dependence". Their doctor can ween them off of it without any "withdrawal" symptoms, and once off, they can conclude that there was NEVER an addiction.

Simultaneously, another person can be "addicted" to gambling, despite zero "physical dependence" or "tolerance".

I do know you've shown yourself to understand the differences in these terms, but it's like you're starting to play fast/loose with them to make points here.
 
Oh, and re the post I *just* quoted - I do NOT believe you "beat" your tolerance in a manner that makes you as sensitive to amp as someone who's never used. Do you claim that to be the case? The wording does imply that.
 
SangerRainsford said:
On the level that *you* want me to take that from, all I'd respond with is the fact that "no urge" right now is irrelevant for two reasons: you still have your drug of choice in your system, and your anecdotal reporting on this is clearly VERY biased given the hypothesis you're trying to prove.

BUT, the truth is that where I don't think you're getting me is right here:
"I meant I didn't have an addictive personality whatsoever when I'm on the meds"
The thing is that does NOT mean you don't have an addictive personality anymore. Addiction is NOT a temporary little period between binges. Many (most? all?) people with addictions absolutely have periods between doses where they can handle not using, it's the repeatedly going back to it that is the addiction. You seem to have just found, at best*, a solution to ease withdrawals/cravings during the lapses between dosing. When you go 6mo w/o taking amp, then I'd see some merit in what you're saying.
((*I say "at best" because the combination of your bias in wanting it to work for you, your bias in wanting to prove it to others, and the fact that while using the 'anti-addictives' you engage in heavy "drug masturbation" online. These things still leave me wondering how much of the effect would have been there if, say, your tap water was spiked w/ your 'stack' instead of you taking it in the manner you do))
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Yes we do have a little misunderstanding, thats what i tried to point out by saying on the meds.


Many (most? all?) people with addictions absolutely have periods between doses where they can handle not using, it's the repeatedly going back to it that is the addiction.
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Sure but ive never experienced that (not with other attemps with otjer substances i tried for addiction) and they IMO did EFFORD to try and stay away, and thats the major difference. The great thing here was that no efford at all was needed, the tought of taking more seemed actually aversive on a normal day.

You seem to have just found, at best*, a solution to ease withdrawals/cravings during the lapses between dosing.
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I never experience withdrawals, only little one's on amp with my tolerance regime. Craving can go up and down sure, but we are talking about complete ABOLISHEMENT here.

When you go 6mo w/o taking amp, then I'd see some merit in what you're saying.
((*I say "at best" because the combination of your bias in wanting it to work for you, your bias in wanting to prove it to others,
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There's no bias, just optimism, so i'm trying it, and want others to try so we will know in a few months how it works, that daily log is just a start, 2 weeks is SOMETHING allready and that may encourage others to give this a try.

and the fact that while using the 'anti-addictives' you engage in heavy "drug masturbation" online. These things still leave me wondering how much of the effect would have been there if, say, your tap water was spiked w/ your 'stack' instead of you taking it in the manner you do))
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I dont really understand this, i just think every pathway involved in addiction needs to be targetted synergetically and that just requires more then 2 meds.
 
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