Ethnobotanicals Peyote vs Trichs vs Synthetic Mescaline

[iom]

At a festival on the other side of the world, back in 2001, I came upon someone selling "mescaline-based acid" in the form of disk-shaped corrugated cardboard blotters, maybe 2 cm diameter. The dealer warned that they were very powerful, to start with only 1/4 of a hit (they were actually marked with scoring lines in a cross shape), and to expect a very long trip. He told a story of a poor schmuck who took too much and was gone for a couple days. I figured they were most likely DOB based on my memory of pictures I'd seen on Erowid before. Assuming it was DOB, I'm kind of sad now that I passed up the opportunity, but I was a long way from home, had only ever had taken ayahuasca and shrooms at that point, and tended to be hypersensitive to the effects of those. I also missed the opportunity to try 2C-T-2 or 2C-T-7 at that festival, but I did have my first ever LSD trip there on a microdot, which I guess is that same as a barrel?

I think 3 mm diameter sounds a bit big, and were the brown or grayish black? Maybe they were 1.5-2 mm? It was such a weird way to dose something. I had trouble convincing myself that I could trip off of that tasteless speck. Anyway, they were rumored to be 250 ug, but when I asked the dealer, he said they were "closer to 160 ug". I think his assessment was essentially correct. It was a perfect introductory dose for someone at my experience level. Somewhere in there I ran into people I knew and when they asked how I was doing, I just motioned at my head and said "microdot!" before giggling and repeating the word "microdot!" again. They asked if I was having a good time, and I nodded a lot. I assumed it would be an 8 hours long trip because that's what a lot of people told me to expect, but it went on for a solid 12 hours. Sadly it would be years again before I could find acid again.

 

[Ismene2]

100%

In this case ismene doesn't know what they talking about. While its common for something else to be sold as mescaline, theres plenty of real mescaline around generally as the sulfate. It was also around a few years back from a very well known DN vendor out of Poland.

I do have access to a GC, and it truly is awesome to have on deck.

If you can't tell mescaline from whatever is in synthetic mescaline then I don't know what to say to you. It's like someone confusing cocaine with LSD - just cannot happen. I'm not talking subtle differences - it's a COMPLETELY different drug with completely different effects.

 

[Ismene2]

I just trust reagent tests and labs with GC/MS more than an Internet rando's capacity to recognize things off vibe alone.

Could you tell coke from LSD? Cos that's how different synthetic mescaline is to cactus.

You don't need to be an expert or think about vibes - it's just a totally different drug.

 

[Esperighanto]

Could you tell coke from LSD? Cos that's how different synthetic mescaline is to cactus.

You don't need to be an expert or think about vibes - it's just a totally different drug.

Comparing cocaine to LSD is ludicrous here, your stubbornness on being misinformed is wild and is undeniably detrimental to people reading this forum looking for harm reduction information.

To anybody reading this in the future, please disregard this man's foolish takes. Please go by reagent testing in the future for reliable results if you can't send a sample out to a laboratory for mass spec analysis.

 

[Ismene2]

Comparing cocaine to LSD is ludicrous here, your stubbornness on being misinformed is wild and is undeniably detrimental to people reading this forum looking for harm reduction information.

To anybody reading this in the future, please disregard this man's foolish takes. Please go by reagent testing in the future for reliable results if you can't send a sample out to a laboratory for mass spec analysis.

What utter bullshit - as if you need a reagent test to tell it's mescaline when you've taken mescaline at least 150 times. Are you selling synthetic mescaline? You can't tell the difference between mescaline and another phen? Really?

Don't go spreading misinformation that synthetic mescaline is always going to be real mescaline. I've bought "synthetic mescaline" 3 times now and every time it had never been near mescaline. Peaked in less than an hour, totally diffferent visuals, back down again after 2 hours. You think I need a reagent test to tell me that's not mescaline?

Which reagent test are you talking about that can identify mescaline? Do you reagent test your coffee every morning to check if it's real coffee? There's no way you can tell coffee is real coffee without a reagent test.

If you want mescaline get cactus. (But not peyote because it's endangered)

 

[Esperighanto]

What utter bullshit - as if you need a reagent test to tell it's mescaline when you've taken mescaline at least 150 times. Are you selling synthetic mescaline? You can't tell the difference between mescaline and another phen? Really?

Don't go spreading misinformation that synthetic mescaline is always going to be real mescaline. I've bought "synthetic mescaline" 3 times now and every time it had never been near mescaline. Peaked in less than an hour, totally diffferent visuals, back down again after 2 hours. You think I need a reagent test to tell me that's not mescaline?

Which reagent test are you talking about that can identify mescaline? Do you reagent test your coffee every morning to check if it's real coffee? There's no way you can tell coffee is real coffee without a reagent test.

If you want mescaline get cactus. (But not peyote because it's endangered)

I'm all set on arguing with somebody who genuinely believes their own subjective response to something is a stronger indicator than reagent testing or mass spectrometry. The degree of hubris you must maintain to be so stubborn in this belief is just mind boggling.

I'm not claiming that the compounds you were sold as "synthetic mescaline" were or weren't, I'm just saying that without objective testing you can't be sure that they were. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, who knows. Instead of testing the compound you just ate it and then foolishly tried to guess what it was.

This is a harm reduction forum, and people like you are a great example of the hubris that leads people into thinking they don't need to test their drugs, it's unironically as disservice to the public to speak as if you can just vibe out what a drug is by tasting it imo. I'm done arguing this childish point with you, you obviously don't care to actually examine what makes sense vs what makes your ego feel better.

 

[Esperighanto]

A question for people who have more experience consuming Lophophora than myself, but have your ever noticed the differences in mixing Fricii/Diffusa in with Williamsii? My sole loph experience was with a mixture of all three and it was incredibly unique, as far as the subjective effects.

 

[Didgital]

A question for people who have more experience consuming Lophophora than myself, but have your ever noticed the differences in mixing Fricii/Diffusa in with Williamsii? My sole loph experience was with a mixture of all three and it was incredibly unique, as far as the subjective effects.

Only tried Williamsii so couldn't tell you. Ignore ismene at this point. If he thinks I can't tell the difference between 2c-e, tma-2, and mescaline and wants to ignore the data, They're too set in their beliefs and not worth arguing with.

DrugsData.org: Test Results

DrugsData.org lab analysis and drug checking results

www.drugsdata.org

My whole point of starting this thread was to discuss differences in cacti and synthetic or even isolated mescaline. Maybe if your experience is with cacti, and you finally try mescaline, you'd be disappointed. I kind of was until I took 660mg of the HCL..

 

[Ismene2]

I'm all set on arguing with somebody who genuinely believes their own subjective response to something is a stronger indicator than reagent testing or mass spectrometry. The degree of hubris you must maintain to be so stubborn in this belief is just mind boggling.

I'm not claiming that the compounds you were sold as "synthetic mescaline" were or weren't, I'm just saying that without objective testing you can't be sure that they were. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, who knows. Instead of testing the compound you just ate it and then foolishly tried to guess what it was.

This is a harm reduction forum, and people like you are a great example of the hubris that leads people into thinking they don't need to test their drugs, it's unironically as disservice to the public to speak as if you can just vibe out what a drug is by tasting it imo. I'm done arguing this childish point with you, you obviously don't care to actually examine what makes sense vs what makes your ego feel better.

Im not saying its better than mass spectrometry Im saying if a drug is peaked and over inside 2 hours then it cant be mescaline. Do you think I'm wrong?

Test all the drugs you like - what has that got to do with anything Im saying?

 

[Didgital]

Do you think I'm wrong?

We only think you're wrong when you say synthetic mescaline isn't available. Sorry you got fed some strange RCs. I definitely trust a dialed in GC/MS, at least 95% of the time.

And while mescaline certainly peaks (never really peaks imo, it plateaus) synthetic mescaline is probably slightly shorter duration and quicker to peak, especially if you're eating powder. Takes a while to digest 50g of powder...

 

[Esperighanto]

Only tried Williamsii so couldn't tell you. Ignore ismene at this point. If he thinks I can't tell the difference between 2c-e, tma-2, and mescaline and wants to ignore the data, They're too set in their beliefs and not worth arguing with.

DrugsData.org: Test Results

DrugsData.org lab analysis and drug checking results

www.drugsdata.org

My whole point of starting this thread was to discuss differences in cacti and synthetic or even isolated mescaline. Maybe if your experience is with cacti, and you finally try mescaline, you'd be disappointed. I kind of was until I took 660mg of the HCL..

I've consumed Lophophora that I grew, dried and put in capsules, as well as extracted mescaline from trichocereus pachanoi, but each only once, which stands apart from my maybe 20+ uses of allylescaline which I've personally found to be superior for my own tastes.

Lophs put me to sleep and I woke up four hours later literally jump scared when I opened my eyes because everything looked like it was composed of morphing gemstones. The headspace felt more lovey and empathogenic, reminded me of mixing benzos and phenethylamines. This was a mix of Williamsii, Fricii and Diffusa, 12g total once dried I believe.

The ~1/3g of acetate I pulled out of pachanoi permanently changed how I think, I could feel time flowing past me like I was staring up a river face on. The visuals were uniquely similar to the way patterns on snake skin move as they slither about, and it was an oddly sedative psychedelic.

Never used synthetic mescaline sadly, but allylescaline feels like all of the empathogenic headspace with acid's stimulation and clarity of thought to me. The two people I've given it to though had negative side effects, one extreme nausea and the other an extremely elevated heart rate.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

This thread gives me ideas. Thank you very much.

 

[Ismene2]

We only think you're wrong when you say synthetic mescaline isn't available. Sorry you got fed some strange RCs. I definitely trust a dialed in GC/MS, at least 95% of the time.

And while mescaline certainly peaks (never really peaks imo, it plateaus) synthetic mescaline is probably slightly shorter duration and quicker to peak, especially if you're eating powder. Takes a while to digest 50g of powder...

Ok. I've got my mass speectrometer ready! Lets go!

 

[Esperighanto]

This thread gives me ideas. Thank you very much.

What kinds of ideas? I've been looking into mixing tetrahydroisoquinoline containing peyote with normal mescaline and having friends do blind trials where it's one or three other, and getting their reviews to see if there are any noticeable patterns

 

[MedicinalUser247]

This might not make sense to you, but something like 2,5,6-trimethoxy-3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl-N-methylpropan-2-amine.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

And 2-(2,3-methylenedioxy-4,5,6-trimethoxyphenyl)ethanamine.

 

[Esperighanto]

This might not make sense to you, but something like 2,5,6-trimethoxy-3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl-N-methylpropan-2-amine.

2,5,6-Trimethoxy-MDMA? It would just be a pain in the ass to make but if you took the precursor to DMMDA, I think it's dillapiole? You could try to pull off the 6-bromination that people use to make 2,6-dibromomescaline, then maybe try to methoxylate it from there? The hardest part would almost certainly just be the initial creation of the aldehyde.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

Well... I always try to design the most exotic substances.

 

[Esperighanto]

Well... I always try to design the most exotic substances.

I usually think about exotic as in effect as opposed to just structure, looking into variants of N-OH, beta methyl, beta methoxy and beta hydroxy variants of things like the essential amphetamines is much more worth our time rn imo, but hey man, if you can figure out that wacky ass aldehyde precursor you'll need then more power to you!

 

[Didgital]

Well... I always try to design the most exotic substances.

Not trying to be mean but if you continue to derail this thread to discuss your non relevant and purely hypothetical "designs", I will delete every single post you have in here.

You have a whole nother thread for that. This is your only warning.

The first compound you mentioned, while not related to peyote, trichocereous, or mescaline aside from being a phenethylamine, has essentially already been "designed". Check the penta substituted charts in the Shulgin Index. Look for TMMDA, it's the tetrasubstituted primary amine. The compound you described would be TMMDMA.

Regardless, this is not the thread to discuss it.