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People who have no faith

Branggen said:
@Gnostic Bishop Just because some people see god in a way that you do not agree with doesn't mean that is what god is to everyone. Can you prove that the universe just appeared from nothing, if not how is that less of an assumption than it was created?
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No. I nor science nor religion can prove how things started. Who cares really? How the universe began has no bearing on my morals and ethics.

What we do within our universe is what is important. Not how it began.

If ill, I look to science. I do not pray. If one is to ponder what cannot be scientifically known, one may as well ponder the unknowable supernatural realm of the god religions which have allowed their morals and ethics to become satanic.

Regards
DL
 
Gormur said:
That's the thing. God doesn't prove anything but existence. Plus, He's a man. I think, who cares?

Unless this God consistently shows off and flexes His powers to give us knowledge, He can just go away. He definitely doesn't give a toss what we're up to or He'd be engaging with us

What have I missed? :)
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You have missed, with your who cares, all the victims that the mainstream religions still continue to create with their vile morals and ethics.

Many victims care.

Regards
DL
 
Branggen said:
IMO you can engage with god by looking within, I found its kind of something that if you don't take the first step of having that faith its never gonna make sense
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Faith is garbage. Call it hope my friend. There is a big difference as faith is for fools, and you do not strike me as a fool.

You seek salvation. Salvation from poor thinking, not from sin. Nice.

Here is the real way to salvation that Gnostic Christian Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.


Jesus as a mantra can work, but so can any mantra.

Regards
DL
 
Gormur said:
I already took the steps growing up that way, but I never saw God. Instead I saw a bunch of negative things that are associated with bad things opposing God. Am I still missing anything? :)
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Yes. All should be opposed to an absentee god.

Such a god is garbage.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
You have missed, with your who cares, all the victims that the mainstream religions still continue to create with their vile morals and ethics.

Many victims care.

Regards
DL
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How can one be a victim to a falsehood. This reminds me of martyrs. They're only martyrs to themselves, so the word has no purpose after that. People might say they care but why should they
 
Isn't that only if you believe in that lie though? I'm just curious. I don't believe in any kind of myths myself
 
Gormur said:
I try not to talk about it often, but yes negative things like entities that told me they'd kill me while I was in bed at night. This is when I was about 6, 7 years old. It never went away but I finally got rid of it once I figured out ways to disprove it

I never was Christian even though I was forced into going to a Christian school and all that. I guess I just sort of shrug it off and I still do, except now I actively don't believe in it if that makes sense
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Hmm that's interesting, could it be a normal fear that any child might have? I could imagine something like that being a result of some weird assumptions you made after being taught religion in a literal sense, as a child. I do think the religious 'system' is majorly flawed, and probably the reason why so many hate religion these days in the west. I also feel like humanity as a whole is turning away from "being good and loving to our neighbors" however you want to take that
 
@Gnostic Bishop
Im a bit confused sorry, would be useful for me to really understand your beliefs. You are a gnostic christian? Does that mean you believe in jesus and not god?
I was pretty atheistic/agnostic a year ago so I really dont know that much about these things for me 'religion' or 'god' has been a personal experience so far meaning I try not to take any opinions that I can not think out in my own head and understand
 
Gormur said:
Isn't that only if you believe in that lie though? I'm just curious. I don't believe in any kind of myths myself
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No. Peer pressure has many doing things they would not do without their peers pucshing them.

Look at how many in the Republican publicly held their noses while voting in a laughing stock.

Regards
DL
 
Branggen said:
@Gnostic Bishop
Im a bit confused sorry, would be useful for me to really understand your beliefs. You are a gnostic christian? Does that mean you believe in jesus and not god?
I was pretty atheistic/agnostic a year ago so I really dont know that much about these things for me 'religion' or 'god' has been a personal experience so far meaning I try not to take any opinions that I can not think out in my own head and understand
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Yes I am a Gnostic Christian and we see one of the Jesus' in scriptures as more of an Eastern mystic and esoteric teacher than a son of a genocidal god. We are not literal reader of our myths and do not think anybody should.

The following speaks of this. If you are interested in Gnostic Christianity, it is a staple as we hold no supernatural beliefs and must think in the way the ancients did. A modern version of course..

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL
 
@Gnostic Bishop Im with you on a lot of this stuff, I do think there is more to doing 'right' than just the way that you treat others, perhaps more importantly I would say the way you treat yourself, though I guess you could include that as the same thing. Ive found that looking within and asking what the 'right' choices are in day to day life has resulted in useful answers. Whether or not that is my subconscious or god giving those answers I couldn't say, which is why I tend to think of them as the same thing.

This leads me to the conclusion that in a sense we are all 'god', or sons of god if you prefer, again of course not literally. I know to the average person asking questions to yourself about what is the right thing sounds just like logical thinking but it feels deeper than that, to me its my form of prayer. Do you believe in prayer in any sense? I have serious doubts praying for someone else does anything but I don't know. Do you have any opinion as to how the earth/universe came to be, do you think it was intelligently created/designed? Curious to here what you have to say its sounds like you do a lot of thinking for yourself
 
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Branggen said:
@Gnostic Bishop Im with you on a lot of this stuff, I do think there is more to doing 'right' than just the way that you treat others, perhaps more importantly I would say the way you treat yourself, though I guess you could include that as the same thing. Ive found that looking within and asking what the 'right' choices are in day to day life has resulted in useful answers. Whether or not that is my subconscious or god giving those answers I couldn't say, which is why I tend to think of them as the same thing.

This leads me to the conclusion that in a sense we are all 'god', or sons of god if you prefer, again of course not literally. I know to the average person asking questions to yourself about what is the right thing sounds just like logical thinking but it feels deeper than that, to me its my form of prayer. Do you believe in prayer in any sense? I have serious doubts praying for someone else does anything but I don't know. Do you have any opinion as to how the earth/universe came to be, do you think it was intelligently created/designed? Curious to here what you have to say its sounds like you do a lot of thinking for yourself
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A perfect reply.

Not believing in anything supernatureal, I am left to deal with what is real.

First, my focus is how the living treat the living. How we got to this point in time, other than learning from history, is irrelevant to me.

On how the universe came to be, I defer to science. It presently admits to having, like religions, a God of the Gaps.

I believe the scientists that say we can likely never know what happened before the big bang.

They are, as we speak, having to deal with two different sets of equations that prove that there is both a 9 dimension universe and a 12 dimension universe. Throw in their theories of brane, and infinite numbered bubble universes and you might see why their best and brightest are saying they have a god of the gaps.

Neil DeGrass made an excellent Utube talk on God's of the Grass and says about the same thing i did as a part of a religious question.

Gnostic Christian thinkers, forever, recognized that if there was one supernatural god, that opened the door for many supernatural gods. Think fractals.

That is why our myths show that when Yahweh bragged about being the only god, Sofia, wisdom to us, laughed at him and reminded him that he was a liar who was created by a higher force.

A number of movies have been created with this theme in mind.

Regards
DL
 
Why do you have NO faith in anything?
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It's in the definition.
"Faith" in the religious sense means believing that something is true without having any evidence for it or logical reasoning to justify it.

So, why no faith? Because there's no reason to have any.
 
vegan said:
It's in the definition.
"Faith" in the religious sense means believing that something is true without having any evidence for it or logical reasoning to justify it.

So, why no faith? Because there's no reason to have any.
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Well reasoned but faith is not belief. Belief takes evidence. Faith is more of a hope in things "unseen" as scriptures say.

Christians will say they believe something because Jesus did.

Hope and faith are synonimous.

Regards
DL
 
Real faith is a product of struggle and suffering. It develops through circumstances when adversity is so high that all of your inner and outer coping mechanisms fail, and you are in free fall, at the utter mercy of life. Your doubts become so high that you don't think you'll ever make it... and yet, in those times, something holds you. What is that? Is it God? Is it humanity? Is it nature? Hard to say... but when you've given up on anything working out and yet you still make it through, that is faith. That is trust.

It's trust that the unknown void will be there for you. Deeper still, that even if you died tomorrow, everything would be okay. It's the moment when the speeding train is heading right for you and you can't get out of the way in time, so you just close your eyes and pray to god it doesn't hit you. Then you open your eyes, and you're somehow still alive.

Faith does not require rationalization. Faith actually develops when all rationales fail you, when you have absolutely no structure or concept left to grasp onto in order to save you. It's a very scary place, but also one where miracles are born. People who make it through impossible circumstances develop this agentless trust -- agentless, because you have no idea where the help is going to come from, just that it's going to always be there.

And faith isn't foolproof. You have doubts all the time, and then something still comes through from you and proves those doubts wrong. Even if you died tomorrow, something in this universe would hold you. You don't need it proven, you just know it's true.
 
if you have faith you have something to be attached to during periods of crisis, sounds good if one can truly believe it
 
I don't know that it's about belief or non-belief because pure faith is the absence of concepts. It means that all of your well-intended contrivances and narratives fall away. At least, that has been my experience of it. It means there is literally nothing left to believe in because nothing sticks. In that vacuum, you not only see what you're really made of, but feel where it comes from.

Where do I feel faith in my body... I think it's the heart or solar plexus area. I mention this because when faith is active, my mind is quiet. To me belief requires mind and faith isn't part of that. Maybe the story one places on faith requires mind but the intrinsic trust involved in faith is a different faculty.

Trust is very similar to love... they are on a similar frequency, so to speak. Imagine a time when you felt utter and complete trust in something or someone. Then notice where it hits you in your body. It feels like warmth and light at your core. I don't know how else to put it. It also has a similar feeling to courage.

For me it doesn't seem to be merely a mind-body thing because it has reality altering consequences. You don't trust because there's a reason to trust, you trust because that is the nature of trust. It's actually a state of consciousness, not an idea. Reason is not part of the equation but that does not make it wrong.
 
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