People who don't do drugs are missing out

[alasdairm]

sure. there was a time i took no drugs. then i did and i had some wonderful, life-changing experiences which i would never have experienced without drugs. i'm glad i made that choice.

that said, i would never suggest that somebody else is wrong or inferior because they made a different choice.

further, i will never know what i missed out on by trying drugs and, again, it could have eclipsed my drug-related experiences many times over. i'll never know.

that's all.

alasdair

 

[DarthMom]

i certainly don't not respect someone who doesn't choose to use them...my sister for example, we talk about it all the time, she won't touch anything, and i admire her for sticking to her personal beliefs. even though she knows intimately my feelings and emotions.

consider this analogy....a muslim/christian who experiences some supernatural ecstatic love and knowing of their god. they would pity others who don't know that feeling....but that in no way means we don't respect their choices.

you too are presuming that pity infers that the other person is wrong in their life path.

and how could you not have already eclipsed that drug related experiences? my life doesn't revolve around drugs. i rarely do anything, there is plenty of other opportunity for other life changing experiences.

 

[alasdairm]

...but that in no way means we don't respect their choices.

indeed. that said, some of the posts in the thread implied to me (or perhaps i inferred wrongly) that the pro-drug choice was somehow superior/right/better/whatever which is what i have a problem with.

not better or worse. just different.

alasdair

 

[My Higher Self]

missing out on a certain bliss which comes entirely from within and isn't dependent on a chemical or a plant.

Who said anything about it coming from entirely from a chemical or plant? What I said is that it rocked me to my core. If I never touch another drug again for the rest of my life I am forever changed by it, and for the better. My perception of life, my values, whats important, what makes me happy, how easily I'm made happy by the small things in life. My life is better for having had the experience. Not for having had a moment of joy brought on by a chemical.

this is another example of snobbery and, for me, that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. suggesting that the experience of others is somehow inferior simply because they've made a different choice than you is childish at best.

God, I'm such an asshole for wanting others to experience something great. What's wrong with me? 8) I've been there, I'm sorry. I never touched any substance alcohol included until I was 26 years old. I ended friendships with people who did. Why? Cause uncle sam say bad. I was making a poorly informed decision.

Here is the thing, and this is a big deal to me. I have no respect for someone who makes decisions that are handed to them. If they have gone out to research them, determine the risk factors, the results, what they can experience and decide that its not for them, that's one thing. Its something entirely different to reach that point by no informed basis other than the government mind control machine.

i note that you typed 'imo' but who calculates 'worth'? the individual. i respect the right of others to make their own determination of 'worth'.

You guys have some seriously twisted logic. Under the pretense that the discussion was moving towards if we feel sorry for peope who don't experience drugs, what I am offering IS my feelings. If you don't want to know them, don't fucking ask. If you ask though, be prepared for me to express my views. Additionally, no where in this thread did we start talkin about strapping people down into chairs and forcing them to partake of drugs. So I'm not sure where you are getting off acting like you are somehow defending their right to be drug free. Their life is theirs to live, I've never disputed that, nor will I, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel as if they are missing out on what could be a very positive influence in their lives. And just once again to clarify, I'm not saying everyone should be smoking DMT day in and day out, its not for everyone. I'm saying you really don't know until you try it.

maybe it's not lack of courage or ignorance - maybe it's something else? consider that? perhaps they've simply made a different choice than you. perhaps for reasons you'll never be able to understand?

Like what?

One last time, I'll clarify the bottom line of my point cause its getting lost. NEVER, did I ever infer, state, or otherwise imply that they are inferior for not doing drugs. What I have stated is that I feel that people who do not do drugs atleast once are in fact missing out.

 

[alasdairm]

Like what?

i don't know. and that's my point.

just because i can't see something, i'm not so arrogant or naive to assume it's not there.

regards

alasdair

 

[purplefirefly]

You guys have some seriously twisted logic. Under the pretense that the discussion was moving towards if we feel sorry for peope who don't experience drugs, what I am offering IS my feelings. If you don't want to know them, don't fucking ask. If you ask though, be prepared for me to express my views. Additionally, no where in this thread did we start talkin about strapping people down into chairs and forcing them to partake of drugs. So I'm not sure where you are getting off acting like you are somehow defending their right to be drug free. Their life is theirs to live, I've never disputed that, nor will I, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel as if they are missing out on what could be a very positive influence in their lives. And just once again to clarify, I'm not saying everyone should be smoking DMT day in and day out, its not for everyone. I'm saying you really don't know until you try it.

Like what?

One last time, I'll clarify the bottom line of my point cause its getting lost. NEVER, did I ever infer, state, or otherwise imply that they are inferior for not doing drugs. What I have stated is that I feel that people who do not do drugs atleast once are in fact missing out.

How is it a fact that people are somehow "missing out"??

There is no guarantee that those people are going to have a profound and blissful experience, the scale can tip either way so to speak. The experience is completely subjective to each individual person. If someone is against doing drugs then they are going to be better off not doing them at all, the experience will never be worth it to them.

You also mention that you feel that people who do not try drugs at least once are missing out, well what drug are you talking about? A person cannot just try one drug, have a good (or bad) experience and expect every experience from any drug that they try to be good or bad. And again, different drugs are going to effect each person differently. It's all completely subjective.

 

[My Higher Self]

Okay, thought up a little analogy here to try and drive my point home.


Kobe Beef is delicious. I think it might be the best damn beef on the face of the planet. I tell all my friends about it, and I ask them to try it the first chance they get cause its just that damn good.

Some will try it, and not like it. I'm disappointed that it wasn't as good for them as it was for me. Oh, well.
Some will try it and love it, and agree, its the best steak ever. They start telling their friends about it, cause they thought it was that good too.

Some will refuse to try it at all. I feel like they are missing out on one of the greatest steaks ever.

Their life is not lacking because they didn't try it. They still have countless other great experiences in their lifes. That however does not change the fact that I think they missed on one one of the great experiences of their lives.

It doesn't make them inferior, or their lives empty, it simply means, I think they missed out. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

[DarthMom]

i don't know. and that's my point.

just because i can't see something, i'm not so arrogant or naive to assume it's not there.

regards

alasdair

i think you are over thinking some of the responses here for (well founded) harm reduction reasons.

but don't tell me i am arrogant because i feel for others who can't feel something i find to be wonderful. that itself is a bit arrogant, to be honest.

 

[purplefirefly]

A steak s a lot different from a mind altering chemical, no matter how harmless it may seem to you.

A steak is not going to completely change your outlook on life.

Your analogy, while well intended, does not fit this arugment. If someone has a bad steak they aren't going to be psychologically damaged.

 

[DarthMom]

then i assume since drugs have left such a bad taste in your mouth, you are fighting for the criminalization and complete banning of all of them?

not to mention, you are backpedaling. it was already mentioned quite a few posts ago that it isn't for everyone. casual thread in a drug forum is a far cry from me saying everyone should dose up. i would think that would be quite obvious.

 

[My Higher Self]

i don't know. and that's my point.

just because i can't see something, i'm not so arrogant or naive to assume it's not there.

regards

alasdair

Of course you don't know. I dare say you can't even make up an example that does not boil down to 1)Scared to try or 2)Lack of knowledge pertaining to said subject matter.

How is it a fact that people are somehow "missing out"??

You are right. I'm sorry. Good job blowing right over the first half of the sentence and reading exactly what you wanted to. Let me rephrase so as not to be stuck in a silly game of semantics.

I feel that people who do not do drugs atleast once are missing out. Better?

You also mention that you feel that people who do not try drugs at least once are missing out, well what drug are you talking about? A person cannot just try one drug, have a good (or bad) experience and expect every experience from any drug that they try to be good or bad. And again, different drugs are going to effect each person differently. It's all completely subjective.

You make a very valid point, one that I might not be able to build on, as I have been up till now speaking very generally about the drug experience. I would have to say that in an effort to build upon the idea of a positive experience, that it should be on that atleast at a minor level intrigues someone's mind, and captivates their imagination. As was stated before, entrance into the phenomenon with a negative connotation can of course have a negative effect. Which as I'm starting to let it sink in a bit, one should really be ready for the experience. The voyage. It might come at 20, it might come at 50, and sadly, it might never come at all. Again, doesn't change my feeling that they are missing out, but such is life.


I do have to say however, that I find it utterly laughable that while you are guys are defending people's rights to their reasons and justifications, you are equally trying to disavow my feelings.

Nothing I have stated is fact. It is my emotional regards to the subject matter. I feel that people who do not take the opportunity to experience drugs in one form or another, are missing out. That is my feeling, my emotion with regards to the subject, and you can't dictate that to me. I'm sorry.

 

[purplefirefly]

I have actually never had a bad experience with drugs and I partake in moderation.

I am also an extremely strong advocate of drug legalization, I think that ALL drugs should be legalized, regardless of neurotoxicity (but that's a debate for another day).

All I am saying is that just because you, or I, have a wonderful and profound experience off of a drug, it doesn't mean that someone else is going to. I don't think that anyone should feel bad for someone who doesn't partake because there is no guarantee that they are going to have the same experience that you did. As I said before, the experience is subjective, it's not going to be the same for everyone.

 

[purplefirefly]

Of course you don't know. I dare say you can't even make up an example that does not boil down to 1)Scared to try or 2)Lack of knowledge pertaining to said subject matter.

You are right. I'm sorry. Good job blowing right over the first half of the sentence and reading exactly what you wanted to. Let me rephrase so as not to be stuck in a silly game of semantics.

I feel that people who do not do drugs atleast once are missing out. Better?

You make a very valid point, one that I might not be able to build on, as I have been up till now speaking very generally about the drug experience. I would have to say that in an effort to build upon the idea of a positive experience, that it should be on that atleast at a minor level intrigues someone's mind, and captivates their imagination. As was stated before, entrance into the phenomenon with a negative connotation can of course have a negative effect. Which as I'm starting to let it sink in a bit, one should really be ready for the experience. The voyage. It might come at 20, it might come at 50, and sadly, it might never come at all. Again, doesn't change my feeling that they are missing out, but such is life.


I do have to say however, that I find it utterly laughable that while you are guys are defending people's rights to their reasons and justifications, you are equally trying to disavow my feelings.

Nothing I have stated is fact. It is my emotional regards to the subject matter. I feel that people who do not take the opportunity to experience drugs in one form or another, are missing out. That is my feeling, my emotion with regards to the subject, and you can't dictate that to me. I'm sorry.

I'm really not trying to rip you apart, and I apologize if it came across that way. I just want you to try to see my perspective, just as you are trying to get me to see yours. You want people to acknowledge your emotion, I want you to acknowledge mine.

You think that non-users are missing out, I don't think that they are necessasarily. That is all.

 

[DarthMom]

You think that non-users are missing out, I don't think that they are necessarily. That is all.

well then we can agree to disagree, especially if restated as (mentally and physically healthy) nonusers are missing out on a potentially exhilarating experience. i am outta here, we are kind of going in circles beyond this point.

 

[alasdairm]

but don't tell me i am arrogant because i feel for others who can't feel something i find to be wonderful. that itself is a bit arrogant, to be honest.

i didn't tell you you were arrogant.

I dare say you can't even make up an example that does not boil down to 1)Scared to try or 2)Lack of knowledge pertaining to said subject matter.

lol.

alasdair

 

[My Higher Self]

A steak s a lot different from a mind altering chemical, no matter how harmless it may seem to you.

A steak is not going to completely change your outlook on life.

Your analogy, while well intended, does not fit this arugment. If someone has a bad steak they aren't going to be psychologically damaged.

Of course it doesn't fit. Analogies are never perfect fits, they are always simplified in order to help understand a more complicated point.

a·nal·o·gy (ə-nāl'ə-jē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. a·nal·o·gies


Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
A comparison based on such similarity. See Synonyms at likeness.

Thanks for point out the puprose of an analogy.

Additionally, I think stating that bad beef isn't bad is a bit of an understatement. E Coli, Mad Cow, Campylobacter, Salmonella, just a few quick examples.

Are humans susceptible to BSE?
Although not scientifically proven, there is strong epidemiologic and laboratory data linking a rare, degenerative, fatal brain disorder in humans called variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD) to the consumption of BSE-contaminated product. This type of disease begins primarily with psychiatric symptoms and affects younger patients (median age, 28 years).

Huh, maybe bad beef can have a bad life long psychological effects. Who woulda thunk?

 

[DarthMom]

i didn't tell you you were arrogant.

lol.

alasdair

you said it when you said this

just because i can't see something, i'm not so arrogant or naive to assume it's not there.

and if you weren't calling me arrogant, then that comment wasn't necessary.

anyway, i am done, i have a feeling we are at closer beliefs that this debate is showing. and even if we aren't, there is only so far it can go, and i think it hit the wall.

 

[My Higher Self]

All I am saying is that just because you, or I, have a wonderful and profound experience off of a drug, it doesn't mean that someone else is going to. I don't think that anyone should feel bad for someone who doesn't partake because there is no guarantee that they are going to have the same experience that you did. As I said before, the experience is subjective, it's not going to be the same for everyone.

No, you are completely correct. Its not the same for everyone. In some cases, it could even be a bad experience. Given, I haven't experienced the whole of the world, and given, a certain amount of what I have experience weighs heavily on my feelings, so a large portion of the feeling that other people are missing out, is rooted deeply in my good experiences. I don't think there is anything wrong, or selfish, about wanting other people to experience those joys/ups/revelations in a similar manner. In fact. I hope their experiences would be better, more profound than my own. Of course the whole sentiment of "I think they are missing out" is hinged upon the fact that their experience results in a positive one. Obviously I don't want them to have a bad experience, and if they did, I would stand by them as sure as can be that drugs just aren't for them.

lol.

Yeah, I thought so.

 

[Jimboach]

PFF, I have to say, you're usually very on track and informative but I think you are way off on this topic.

Given the ideal scenario where the person is healthy enough to do drugs, I think they really are neglecting themselves a worthwhile experience by not experimenting. This isn't to say, abusing drugs but simply attaining an awareness that doesn't come from sobriety.

The mind is a complex and wonderful tool and if we can utilize it with the same genius that has provided us with cars, computers, internet, and medicine, I can't see how anyone can honestly say they aren't missing out.

They don't know! People will readily say how medicine is something we would miss if we did not have it but many, because of social stigma are afraid to enjoy the enhancements of drugs for simple recreational usage.

This is the site...we're free to say it, so let go. Someone pass the pipe.

 

[alasdairm]

Given the ideal scenario where the person is healthy enough to do drugs, I think they really are neglecting themselves a worthwhile experience by not experimenting. This isn't to say, abusing drugs but simply attaining an awareness that doesn't come from sobriety.

with an another perspective, one could just as easily write: i don't think they really are neglecting themselves a worthwhile experience by not experimenting. this isn't to say, abusing drugs but simply attaining an awareness that comes only from sobriety.

right? wrong? good? bad?

alasdair