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☮ Social ☮ [PD Social Tripping Thread] NEW! Gather here for swirly talk

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Yeah man super interesting. I've never tried salvia, but DPT definitely can be weird and dark, and when I think about descriptions of salvia, there does seem to be some overlap. Never tried and DALTs either.

We don't know if the binding cause agonism or antagonism (etc) from binding data though, right?

Glad some of you liked my piano-fiddlings.

Keep it up!
 
Yeah man super interesting. I've never tried salvia, but DPT definitely can be weird and dark, and when I think about descriptions of salvia, there does seem to be some overlap. Never tried and DALTs either.

We don't know if the binding cause agonism or antagonism (etc) from binding data though, right?

Correct, the implications of the receptor binding are not currently known. Perhaps notably, many kappa-opioid antagonists have actually been shown to have rapid-acting, long-lasting antidepressant effects that I believe have been going well in human trials of treatment resistant depression so far as well. It seems to me that having activity at that site in either direction could be potentially interesting, if it were strong enough!

I have yet to try DPT myself, but I am one of the rarer fans of salvia. For a long time now I have actually thought that it had a surprising number of overlaps with tryptamines in particular, but really only those I named before got me to the point where it just seemed shocking to think that they were working through entirely different mechanisms of action. "Weird and dark" is definitely a good place to start trying to grasp their similarities.

For me, one of the weirdest and most instantly recognizable things salvia always did was the spinning gravity thing, where when I'm standing up it actually literally feels easier to spin to the left than it does to stand still, because it's like gravity is just always pulling me to my left and I'm just naturally falling into it. For years I thought of it as one of the signs of salvia's truly unique bizarreness, and that's why it stood out to me so much when I experienced it exactly the same on that 60 mg of 4-AcO-DALT, and then not very long after on 50 mg of 4-HO-MPT. I haven't had that in particular yet with 4-HO-DET, but with all three on those strongest trips I had I also had the exact same somewhat dark or mysterious and heavily repeated patterning of faces or full bodies like I also get on salvia, along with a very specific blue and green neon aura visual effect to things that is again shared by them all, and at that point the psychedelics all begin to produce the more alien or strange visionary imagery, like snakes and insects and demonic spirits and the like. On 4-HO-DET I have even seemed to hit a breakthrough point where I was entering a dark delirium with entities and all, but it felt very normal at the time.... On 4-HO-MPT I did not get that far, but I did start to feel like I was "becoming" other people and slipping into dream states, again very much like salvia is often known to produce, and like I have also heard about like with DPT. There really does seem to be a lot of connections....

Interestingly, 4-HO-DET seems by far the most potent by weight in this way to me, and it also produces the least euphoria of any psychedelic I've taken at a level of intensity it gives me. If there is some kappa-opioid agonism involved, I wonder if it could be preventing a lot of the dopamine release that normally plays a role in the psychedelic euphoria?
 
If there is some kappa-opioid agonism involved, I wonder if it could be preventing a lot of the dopamine release that normally plays a role in the psychedelic euphoria?

Is that something that kappa-opioid agonism does - prevent dopamine release? Because I noticed that at high levels DPT seems to lack, or have less of, the psychedelic euphoria that a lot of the other ones have. Like your experience with 4-HO-DET, DPT was the least euphoric of any psychedelic I've taken I believe. It felt to me like my flight/fright/fight (adrenaline?) system was turned up or something - but this could maybe be just the serotonin receptors turned up without the comfort blanket of dopamine release that I'm accustomed to. Fascinating stuff this..
 
Oh yeah, it's actually one of the main things they do; it's one of their major roles in addiction. Lots of dopamine release upregulates kappa-opioid receptors causing levels to chronically drop in the absence of the drug stimulus and cause aversion, and waiting out the effects of dynorphin activating and downregulating those receptors during withdrawal is necessary to allow dopamine function to return. Though, on the other hand, animal data suggests that the process can be expedited by kappa-opioid agonists like salvinorin A, which by the way also tends to actually cause a euphoric afterglow even after its dysphoric trip, sort of like the opposite of a crash. When done at the peak of a psychedelic trip, I have also found it to cause a long-lasting dramatic increase of dream-like hallucinogenic effects and euphoria.

Interestingly, salvinorin A actually causes dopamine release in low to moderate concentrations that correspond to the doses that it can be more easily enjoyed at, but those huge dose terror trips you always hear about seem to lower dopamine across the board in animals. And those are also the ones that enhance my psychedelic trips for the longest.... Luckily when mixing it with psychedelics I also find it does go from dysphoric to mostly just not that euphoric, so that is nice, and that's part of what lead to my feelings about 4-HO-DET as well. So, when you describe DPT like that I would have to say it does sound like what I would expect, and an adrenaline-like feeling also corresponds quite well to what I get from high doses of salvia with psychedelics or without.... Definitely very fascinating, thanks for sharing that too.

I think we're on the verge of discovering some very intriguing new sides to all of our favorite drugs soon with all this new scientific research that's being done on them. :)
 
So I just made a solution of 30mg/15ml of Etizolam using grain alcohol, and the etiz dissolved with ease. Had I known it would readily migrate into everclear, I would have made it more concentrated... How much etizolam have any of y'all packed into a small volume of liquid? The vial I had to use for 15ml of liquid is quite large, and I'd hope to squeeze more etizolam in less space next time. Something more along the lines of a 4mg/1ml solution, where .25ml=1mg of etizolam.

So yeah, how concentrated have y'all gotten etizolam solutions using grain alcohol, or even other carriers? Experiences much appreciated!
 
I've been browsing some of the more obscure drug threads tonight. Anyone here try out DOiP yet? Or 2C-iP for that matter? I have potential access to both of them but information seems scattered. I seemed to remember Xorkoth obtaining some DOiP; ever try that out man?
 
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Oh yeah, it's actually one of the main things they do; it's one of their major roles in addiction. Lots of dopamine release upregulates kappa-opioid receptors causing levels to chronically drop in the absence of the drug stimulus and cause aversion, and waiting out the effects of dynorphin activating and downregulating those receptors during withdrawal is necessary to allow dopamine function to return. Though, on the other hand, animal data suggests that the process can be expedited by kappa-opioid agonists like salvinorin A, which by the way also tends to actually cause a euphoric afterglow even after its dysphoric trip, sort of like the opposite of a crash. When done at the peak of a psychedelic trip, I have also found it to cause a long-lasting dramatic increase of dream-like hallucinogenic effects and euphoria.

Interestingly, salvinorin A actually causes dopamine release in low to moderate concentrations that correspond to the doses that it can be more easily enjoyed at, but those huge dose terror trips you always hear about seem to lower dopamine across the board in animals. And those are also the ones that enhance my psychedelic trips for the longest.... Luckily when mixing it with psychedelics I also find it does go from dysphoric to mostly just not that euphoric, so that is nice, and that's part of what lead to my feelings about 4-HO-DET as well. So, when you describe DPT like that I would have to say it does sound like what I would expect, and an adrenaline-like feeling also corresponds quite well to what I get from high doses of salvia with psychedelics or without.... Definitely very fascinating, thanks for sharing that too.

I think we're on the verge of discovering some very intriguing new sides to all of our favorite drugs soon with all this new scientific research that's being done on them. :)

Wow, this is fascinating! I'd long ago decided I had no need or use for Salvia (salvinorin A) anymore, with everything else that is available, but I see it very well may still have a nitch!
 
240sxlover, i regularly mix etiz w/ prop glycol 10mg/ml. Dissolves in warm water bath, or if left to sit over night.

Have been liking 2cd and 4 ho met combo. Nice for tripping without super tripping. Threw in a bit of 2c b and that was nice for some hiking.

Plugged 50mg mxe anf sniffed 200mg ketamine. Boy howdy... What a combo.
 
I took ~10mg of 2C-D at a showing of Blade Runner: The Final Cut last Wed. Honestly, I just don't think I like 2C-D at all. I always get a bumpy come-up, followed by a disappointing peak where I have a headache. Wtf is up with this drug? Made it hard as hell to enjoy my favorite film on the big screen when I was writhing in my seat from psych-discomfort...

Next time I go movie tripping I think I'll just use good Ol' LSD or perhaps something like 2C-C which has never given me such issues.

I want so badly to enjoy 2C-D, as the effects are generally more mild and doable in public, but god damn, the side effects...
 
maybe 10mg is just too little? Perhaps the peak is dissapointing because it isn't much of one? My first dose was about 10mg plugged, and then I did another 40mg plugged an hour later. Ended up adding another 25mg (i think) later. If I only had done the 10mg I wouldn't have thought too much of it at all.

I took 50mg 2 cd with 15mg 2c b and 15mg 4 ho met another time, all oral. Very nice for hiking. Perhaps a bit much for a movie. I think 30mg would have been comfortable though.

How much do you dose with 2c c? I find 2c c to be more stimulating/physical than 2c d. I would say I would dose them about the same as well. If you enjoy higher doses of 2c c, perhaps you would enjoy the same dose of 2c d?

Also, I like any type of dissociative with a psych to ease the weirdness, especially in public. YMMV.

Then again, you may just not like 2c d at all ;-) diff strokes and yeah
 
Just A Guy said:
Wow, this is fascinating! I'd long ago decided I had no need or use for Salvia (salvinorin A) anymore, with everything else that is available, but I see it very well may still have a nitch!

Isn't it something? I definitely think there's a lot of interesting stuff going on with those kappa-opioid receptors, as ibogaine seems to possibly suggest as well, and now all this. If more tryptamines than just those few really do bind there, I'm honestly starting to wonder if this may be why I actually feel less obsessed with tryptamines almost every time I take them.... I do take pretty high doses of most of them and I seem fairly sensitive to salvia, so I don't think it'd be out of the question for that activity to be relevant if it is really there, and I really feel the same about them and salvia in the sense that they simultaneously become more intense and fulfilling and less of an easygoing ride every time I take them, and even if I absolutely loved the trip I just don't really have the desire to take them again for a while afterward. If the kappa-opioid receptor is involved with that too then I think I would gain even more respect for them, as I don't think anything else really could have put a healthy check on my psychedelic obsession like that.... To be fair, it hasn't made me completely want to stop tripping, I'm kind of just starting to want to take more phenethylamines again for their easygoing nature and lack of this feeling, but it's better than nothing. ;) I imagine it's probably good to have some kind of self-regulation more so for tryptamines anyway just because they can mess with your mind so much.
 
^^Well, I've tried 2C-D up to 30mg, at which point it was not disappointing, and was indeed psychedelic... but the body load and the headache were severe for me at that level. I like to take 2C-C around the 50mg range, so I think I just have an idiosyncratic response to 2C-D. I've had one good experience with 2C-D, at 10mg (which is why I chose 10mg for this movie) while I was at a party smoking a lot of reefer, and it was a lot of fun and i never felt ill like all the other trials. I'm still not giving up on it, I have roughly 2 grams left of the stuff, I just... why does it hurt so much I wonder? :(
 
Well, I think I have two different batches of it. So I'll try the other batch at 10mg some time soon and see if it is indeed just that batch.
 
^^Well, I've tried 2C-D up to 30mg, at which point it was not disappointing, and was indeed psychedelic... but the body load and the headache were severe for me at that level. I like to take 2C-C around the 50mg range, so I think I just have an idiosyncratic response to 2C-D. I've had one good experience with 2C-D, at 10mg (which is why I chose 10mg for this movie) while I was at a party smoking a lot of reefer, and it was a lot of fun and i never felt ill like all the other trials. I'm still not giving up on it, I have roughly 2 grams left of the stuff, I just... why does it hurt so much I wonder? :(

sounds like you have an idiosyncratic reaction (or a bad batch)
most people like much higher doses (i liked 60-80 or even 100+mg or 25-40mg i.m.)
(which, n.b., may be idiosyncratically high, I also like 2CB in excess of 40-50mg)
and find it pretty physically transparent
 
I took some 4-HO-MiPT followed by 3 5mg doses of 3-MeO-PCP staggered by a few hours, all nasally (took the 3-MeO about an hour and a half into the 4-HO-MiPT, which strangely had not peaked yet). My friend did the same and some other friends were just on 3-MeO-PCP. Before when I took 4-HO-MiPT while already on a ~10mg oral dose of 3-MeO-PCP, it was like the tryptamine was unable to pierce the dissociation cloud, it was weird, I could tell it was there but it was like it was an illusion. This time, it was a really great trip, euphoric, energetic, analytical and loving.

At first, my friend who took the MiPT with me was having a bit of a crisis. He revealed to me that he's been really, really stressed and unhappy lately, unsatisfied with his relationships and life, he told me, but he has no idea why because until recently he was really happy and chill and isn't sure what's different. He was really upset about it, and at first was only going to take the dissociative but asked me sudden;y if he could have a nice full dose. I thought about it and agreed because this is the friend I trip the most with and I know how he is with psychedelics and I thought it could be a good thing. And it was, but I really had to help him through some things. He wanted to be alone for a while, and after a bit I went to check on him. He was in a great state, open and thoughtful, and we talked it out. He kept regressing back into his anxiety but I'd help him through, make him laugh, and so on. We capped that session off by just creating some music together... he played on my synth (he later told me was crying through the sounds he was making) and I played the piano, and we created some of the most hauntingly beautiful music for a good half hour straight. It helped him so much, lately we had been working hard with the band on a very structured set of songs, and he really wanted to just freely express something totally in the moment. After that he felt so much better and thanked me for being there for him, and we went upstairs with the others and proceeded to watch 2 full live shows, one was a Phish show and the other was a Lauren Hill in Japan show that was honestly one of the greatest things I've ever seen. Lots of dancing and laughing was had. All in all, an intense but really wonderful night. :)

I always found that MXE made it harder to play music and often to connect with it too, but 3-MeO-PCP is actually great for that purpose.
 
I always found that MXE made it harder to play music and often to connect with it too, but 3-MeO-PCP is actually great for that purpose.

same here.

it was weird, i could be on extremely mentally debilitating doses of 3-MeO-PCP and still pick up my guitar and play wonderfully (confirmed once i came down via recordings). whereas high doses of MXE or DXM make it nearly impossible to play at anything close to my sober skill level.
 
Yeah, same. MXE would make me, like, what does this thing do again? And my fingers would have no clue what to do. And sometimes it would make music seem far away and grainy. Sometimes music sounded amazing on it, but sometimes it sounded like shit. And every so often I'd have the ability to play really well on MXE too. But 3-MeO-PCP seems consistent.
 
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I'm not super experienced with playing the keyboard but MXE helped me a ton back when I was playing and making music a lot 9-12 months ago. I just always knew not to go any farther than 8-12mg plugged, otherwise I'd be in dazed & confused territory like y'all described. It's good to know you can go pretty high with 3-meo-pcp without losing that ability though.
 
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