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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Tripping Thread: Euphoric Rambles for Swirling Souls

perpetualdawn, I think that's a perfectly rational theory given our current level of understanding about these systems.

Even without going too deep into ideas like increased brain communication and synesthesia and stuff, I think it's clear from the science that psychedelics create their subjective effects at least in part by altering levels of excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmission throughout the brain. Interestingly, considering the way GABAergics do seem to generally reduce the strength of trips, the 5-HT2A receptor has also been shown consistently to increase the release of both glutamate and GABA in cortical areas when activated.

I should also say that I feel that the science has shown sufficient evidence that the 5-HT2A receptor is necessary for truly psychedelic effects, but I also believe that the picture beyond that is likely much more complex. For instance, it's worth considering that because that receptor has multiple functional pathways that can be activated with different relative affinities and efficacies by ligands, even two drugs that bind only to 5-HT2A could still have very different net effects on neurotransmitter release and overall excitability, and then when you add in all the other receptors that most psychedelics do bind to, the interactions should just become remarkably complex, leading to the well-known diversity of different psychedelics.

In relation to how GABAergics can blunt a trip, I think it's probably also worth considering that as the excitability of part of the brain increases, the chemical reactions occurring there through other means can also become more intense, and that should include activities caused by those off-target receptors, further strengthening their modifications to the effects of 5-HT2A. Likewise, in other parts of the brain their impact may be inhibited compared to normal, making the whole system even more complex and altered.

When it comes to the actual hallucinations and intense emotions and thoughts caused by psychedelics, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're a result of excitatory activity, and so I do think an indirect effect of decreasing excitability that most GABAergics have would be a logical explanation for their impact on a trip. However, I must say that I find certain effects of psychedelics, such as memory loss, to be enhanced by GABAergics instead, so perhaps that and other subjective effects of theirs could still depend on their inhibitory activity.
 
Random thought:

We all basically know that "jinxing" something by talking about it is mere superstition, but why does the idea come up all the time in lighthearted discussion? What is so attractive to us about the idea of jinxing? Is there some kernel of truth to it?
 
I would totally believe that it's an attractive topic of conversation because it appears to have a kernel of truth to it. We are pattern-detecting machines after all, and life is long and complex enough that everyone has been through many situations where the outcome of something crucial was discussed before it actually happened, and just going by basic logic it's highly likely that not every single one of those situations ended positively afterward. So, mix that in with a natural human desire to blame someone else for your problems and a self-promoting superstition that everyone's heard of, and you get your brain going "Hey, we did this so many times and it failed so many times, I guess everyone was right about the world being able to just screw you over, huh?" That's my theory on it anyway.
 
Isn't it just based on the vague feeling that pretty much any wanted outcome or event is sensitive to not being fulfilled, and the 'talking about it' embodies the most basic influence something might have on the outcome?... hmm how do I explain myself clearly here...
Superstition involves the sort of 'magical thinking' that just about anything can be influenced by actions that are basically unrelated i.e. not objectively related. With just magical thinking running wild, relations can be imagined on the spot... but usually there is more method to the madness: something that bears at least some relation to the 'event' of course is much more powerful as there is already a connection. Jinxing by talking about an event (potential event) is about it, related to it, so it's the most generic and obvious source of superstition there is.

Doing something other than talking that is still 'about' the potential event also has a high chance of having some superstition attached to it - like betting money on it for example. Betting money may feel perhaps even worse to us intuitively in terms of tempting fate since it appears to contradict our sense of "the universe being supposed to work justly", because of the presumptions underpinning the bet.

The aspect of religion involving praying to god in order to ask for something being influenced seems like employing the same kind of superstition but having an influencing factor on retainer, I guess?

What kernel of truth do you suppose there is to universal mechanics of superstitious thinking? :?
The only kernel of truth I see here is the way people can get self-fulfilling prophecies involved especially when it concerns 'events' that actually involve the superstitious people actively, and that there are many ways to ruin something by talking about it or obsessing about it etc compared to doing nothing and just waiting for it to pass. Just is simply more potential in something that may have any influence rather than nothing...

It would help to have an example or casus though, because it matters whether we are all talking about the same thing. There isn't such a same factor for self-fulfilling prophecies etc when it is about jinxing say a sports match that you have no influence on since you aren't actively involved with it. The superstition of a sportsman in the game is not the same as the superstition of the spectator.

Talking about the sportsman: one hypothesis for why something akin to a talisman (a tennisplayer with his lucky racket that belonged to some legendary player for example) can help is that some of the pressure that is put on the player is relayed to the racket which in the mind of the player is believed to do some of the work.
And of course a big part is the motivational effects from praying and believing - not in god but in your chances.
 
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I have no idea how manic I'm now because of 3-MeO-PCP or life events influenced by 3meo but I have to take a breather before this gets out of hands. It's like, I'm almost too excited about things and so happy. And I love it. Having a crush on at least 2 girls isn't helping.
 
Haha "at least"... sounds complicated.
Yeah sounds like a breather will be good for you. I will probably take the very small bit that I have left pretty soon, maybe later this week.

I hope taking it easy in general with drugs though will be good for my anhedonia.
 
And another thing, it feels like my wisdom tooth is coming out. This same thing happened to pharmakos after 3-meo abuse. Is it a coincidence?
 
xammy said:
I have no idea how manic I'm now because of 3-MeO-PCP or life events influenced by 3meo but I have to take a breather before this gets out of hands. It's like, I'm almost too excited about things and so happy. And I love it. Having a crush on at least 2 girls isn't helping.
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Haha, yeah, I've been there. It feels amazing but at some point I get a little voice that says, whoa dude, you're really out there right now. I did it 6 days in a row recently, after not doing it much, and on the 5th day I didn't even have much and I hit a point that was nearly to full-blown mania. I took a little plus a little 2C-T-2 (which helped but was just an adjunct, also only 5-6mg), and then had band practice which always makes me feel euphoric and hypomanic for a bit anyway, and afterwards... oh my god. I felt maybe the best I ever have all day long. I was making quips non-stop, moving a whole bunch (probably looked a little crazy), talking loudly and often. I felt extremely insightful and I think I was, my brain was working at very high capacity. But I was missing quite a bit of conscious oversight. Everything seemed like a good idea, and I couldn't stop myself from saying whatever I wanted to anyone. In retrospect it was a fairly dangerous state, though it was a huge amount of fun.

How many days in a row has it been? I really can't go beyond 7, but no more than 5 is ideal. After the 5th day I start to feel a bit crazy, like my head is full of noise. I mostly notice it at work, I'm trying to multitask and talk to people on the phone and program stuff, and it's difficult to focus through the buzzing in my head. So I generally stick to 5 day stretches (of consecutive low doses by the way, I think if I was taking it to get dissociated it would take more out of me).
 
I have no idea honestly, I have taken a day off here and there. On tuesday I took more than 20mg over the whole day I think and yesternight about 5mg. And I took 8mg on monday evening too I think?

and I couldn't stop myself from saying whatever I wanted to anyone.
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Me too man. :D Well I still have some filters but yeah, it feels like I can do anything I want.
 
I normally have filters but I had very few that day. It's the only time it's ever been that intense. Normally I have all that same stuff happen, just to a lesser degree.
 
It feels hard to differentiate which is caused by 3meo and which isn't because I'm like that normally too, I do pretty much everything I want in this life and no one can control me.
 
Kaleida said:
I would totally believe that it's an attractive topic of conversation because it appears to have a kernel of truth to it. We are pattern-detecting machines after all, and life is long and complex enough that everyone has been through many situations where the outcome of something crucial was discussed before it actually happened, and just going by basic logic it's highly likely that not every single one of those situations ended positively afterward. So, mix that in with a natural human desire to blame someone else for your problems and a self-promoting superstition that everyone's heard of, and you get your brain going "Hey, we did this so many times and it failed so many times, I guess everyone was right about the world being able to just screw you over, huh?" That's my theory on it anyway.
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So basically you're saying, a coincidence happens by chance a few times, and instead of dismissing it as a fluke, we form a superstition?

Solipsis said:
Talking about the sportsman: one hypothesis for why something akin to a talisman (a tennisplayer with his lucky racket that belonged to some legendary player for example) can help is that some of the pressure that is put on the player is relayed to the racket which in the mind of the player is believed to do some of the work.
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I like the self-fulfilling prophecy hypothesis. I think it's pretty common for people to create an outcome simply by believing in it, whether negative or positive. Which relates to the idea I just posted in the other social thread about many illnesses being nothing more than hypochondria.
 
TheAppleCore said:
So basically you're saying, a coincidence happens by chance a few times, and instead of dismissing it as a fluke, we form a superstition?
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That's basically what I'm saying, yes, except that I think "a few times" is putting it too lightly, and I think it's important to note that I am thinking of it as a subconscious reaction. For the former, I'd believe that most people probably can't recall vividly more than a few times where that kind of situation took place, but most young adults have already gone through at least a dozen situations like that, if not dozens or even hundreds depending on what kind of life they live. That is a lot of opportunities to "learn" from. As for the latter, the significance of it is that for our brains to learn a new "rule", you just have to experience something enough, it doesn't have to make logical sense. I know that this is believed by many to also be a part of how dreams are organically formed even when they're absurd, such as how you can watch a bunch of magic movies and then suddenly have a dream about someone shooting a fireball from their hand right in front of you, just because simply watching enough of that on the big screen has "taught" your brain that shooting fireballs from your hand is something that's actually possible, or whatever absurd equivalent you'd like to substitute.

When it comes to actual conversations about jinxing something, I think you're looking at a chicken or egg situation - did enough people naturally assume that talking about an outcome could ruin it from experiencing that by chance that it caught on, or did it begin as a tradition that simply caught on to the point that everyone was aware of it and it became self-fulfilling, or something else even? I surely couldn't say, but what I can say is that living in the world we're in now where basically everyone does know about jinxing things, all those experiences where it actually did happen, where you talked about it and then it didn't go the way you wanted, will add up. Whether you really believe it or not, your brain will take that superstition into consideration and keep note of it every time it turns out to be true, which will just further your belief that that superstition might be worth paying attention to, because to your brain it appears to accurately predict the outcome of events that are important to you in the sense that they have a notable impact on your reward system, which is obviously one of the most important things to your brain.

As for just dismissing it as a fluke, that's what the vast majority of people do, isn't it? As you said, we're all aware that it's mere superstition. However, even knowing that and knowing the falsehood of other superstitions, I still sometimes feel my instincts trying to tell me to give into them, and I believe that this subconscious self-strengthening process could be at least one good explanation as for why. Add that to the fact that most people think about these things a lot less than we here do, and that many people are easily swayed by the notion that you can't ever disprove certain superstitions, this being one of them, and I think it actually makes a lot of sense that it would pop up commonly in conversation.
 
I think the way these drugs work is by opening up our brain to easier impressions. Soft matter in the brain is where the metaphysical realm and the physical realm cross in a helix shape spiraling upwards. At this point, our consciousness (thoughts/emotion) can literally make physical impressions in the depths of the brain that reverberate outward into the rest of the brain thus signaling the entire body.

This interchange between metaphysicality and physicality is perhaps better understood than ever before, especially with the advent of arylcyclohexaminic drugs. More specifically 3-meo-pcp which has the ability to highlight this phenomena if the sigma state is achieved for a considerable length of time. Don't try it at home though, make sure you're deep in the woods with a normie.

Each drug will activate a different realm of the brain and have different levels of impressionable vulnerability at those areas.
 
Since this is a harm reduction forum: Always bring knives when trying to reach sigma on 3-MeO-PCP deep in the woods with a normie. A deep understanding of magick, shamanism, demon worship and voodoo is helpful here.
 
xammy said:
It feels hard to differentiate which is caused by 3meo and which isn't because I'm like that normally too, I do pretty much everything I want in this life and no one can control me.
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To me there's always two paths that you can take, the paths come in form of thoughts. So you get a thought about what you want or what you are going to do... wait for the following thought. It's like, sometimes your instinct will come before the hedonistic thought, and sometimes after. So It's like you have a right and a wrong thought but they come at different paces but right is always followed by wrong or vice versa. Usually after the two thoughts, your self will decide on which one to act upon but deep down you will know if that was the right or wrong thing to do. It's more than trusting your instinct, you gotta reflect at the same time. Above all, you really won't ever know what was influenced by meo, but eventually youll have a pretty good idea in retrospect.

xammy said:
And another thing, it feels like my wisdom tooth is coming out. This same thing happened to pharmakos after 3-meo abuse. Is it a coincidence?
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I've had this phenomena on many different stimulating drug binges.
 
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