🌟🌟 Social 🌟🌟 PD Social Thread 2022-2025 v. Year of the Phenethylamine

[Innerpeace]

Are entacogens like 6apb, 5 mapb, hitting the same serotonin receptors as methallylescaline? Many entacogens, like 6 apb, mdma combine the psychedelic effects with the amphetamine effects. and they say a few times a year max for entacogens so if its hitting the same exact h2a receptor as a psychedelic, are psychedelic supposed to have the wait three month, in general, rule that entactogens have?


Ive done mdma , more than likely mda, in some of 30 some ecstacy pills I abused from 2000-2001.

5-mapb, 6apb, methallylescaline

Done Miprocin as a main typtamine psychedelic, many times as its quite similar to the other sub-4's typtamines. Mixed Miprocin with 6apb, and had massive negative side effects. Mixed it with 5 mapb a couple times and that went fine, a candy flip, as it was mentioned earlier in this thread. I came to the conclusion, for now, that typtamine psychedelic's aren't for me. They seem too much overwhelm for me, with the moving pictures, deep headspace, and first few times I did them alone inside I cried a lot. The first time was with en ex and I could have held back , but when alone if you have to, you can really let go. As I did them more and more, when I went outside in nature its better. That said, the last time I did miprocin, over a year ago, I did it on vacation, in a house, went down to boardwalk, ran on beach at night, back inside in room , picture on wall moving, and thought I dont like this. Since then Ive found Mal, Methallylescaline , and seems gentlier, and headspace better, not like an entacogen, but more like one than miprocin, if that makes sense, from it being nicer.

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[porkstock]

Anyone know what the heck Psilocybin "polymorph A" is? (The form of psilocybin that Compass Pathways is patenting)

It's just a certain form of crystal that produces a specific x-ray diffraction pattern. The people challenging the patent said that polymorph A was not real, they were likely seeing polymorph A' (might have the names wrong) turning into polymorph B. They had a mixture of two, already known polymorphs and are claiming or thinking that it's a new, 3rd crystal form

 

[Freeotrope]

It's just a certain form of crystal that produces a specific x-ray diffraction pattern. The people challenging the patent said that polymorph A was not real, they were likely seeing polymorph A' (might have the names wrong) turning into polymorph B. They had a mixture of two, already known polymorphs and are claiming or thinking that it's a new, 3rd crystal form

so its just a particular crystal structure that dissolves before it gets to your brain? would there be any use to such a crystal structure outside of marketing?

 

[unodelacosa]

Anyone know what the heck Psilocybin "polymorph A" is? (The form of psilocybin that Compass Pathways is patenting)

Yeah so you cannot patent something that is made naturally or is something that anyone would naturally and obviously think of, so to speak. That's not novel. It doesn't show a new, clever—and thus patentable—idea. No one can patent nature. So in order for Big Pharma's interest in Psilocybin to work, the money has to follow in some significant fashion… they needed something they could patent. And so, in crystallography a compound might have a few different ways it can form into a crystalline lattice when conditions are met for such a structure to form. In structural science, these are called polymorphs and it's been Compass Pathways claim that it has developed a technique whereby they force psilocybin salt crystals into a polymorphic crystalline lattice shape such that it would not otherwise ever form, and as such this is their intellectual property.

Are entacogens Many entacogens, entacogens

Entactogen – "tactile feelings from within".
Entacogen – "tacos from within".
Good point – it was Taco Tuesday!

Are entacogens like 6apb, 5 mapb, hitting the same serotonin receptors as methallylescaline? Many entacogens, like 6 apb, mdma combine the psychedelic effects with the amphetamine effects. and they say a few times a year max for entacogens

Short answer: although there's some overlap, MDMA is neurotoxic in a manner that psychedelics are not, so you can use psychedelics more frequently if you like without compromising your harm reduction practices or causing unnecessary neurotoxicity.

Long answer: Yes, there's some overlap – anything that causes trails, undulating patterns, kaleidoscopic imagery, that kind classic psychedelia most likely affects the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor subtype. 5-HT2C tends to get involved, more so for compounds like 2C-B and less so for drugs like DMT. The classic psychedelia is really muted on MDMA, less so with MDA but it's there if you ever look closely for tracers and CEVs.

However, the comparisons stop there. MDMA has a unique action in the brain in which MDMA actually hijacks the serotonin transporter and rides the escalator in reverse, so to speak into the brain's pre-synaptic storage of serotonin, whereby it opens the floodgates like The Joker emptying Arkham Asylum, dumping the cells into the synapses, overloading the serotonin system and allowing 5-HT to overflow into dopamine receptor sites, which regulate our "feel good" centers among other things. So these sites get activated by serotonin but when MAO seeks to remove dopamine from the brain and encounters serotonin instead, serotonin is transformed into the neurotoxic alpha-methyl-dopamine which when left exposed in the synapse brings oxidative stress and eventually can lead to the dendritic arms becoming atrophied and compromising normal cell communication in the brain, which you know, when you think about it, is patently not good.

To put it another way, repeated and frequent exposure to MDMA is neurotoxic. In fact, everytime you use MDMA (or MDA, which has similar action) it's neurotoxic. Brain cells die, dendrites atrophy, another angel gets its wings torn off, lol. I'm just being dramatic, and to keep it in perspective, every time you imbibe (ethyl) alcohol—you know, booze, spirits, the sauce – it's also neurotoxic and brain cells die. Do enough brain cells die to worry about it? In virtually every instance: no. Some brain cells just have to die heroically, I guess, for the rest of the brain cells to enjoy coming home with the drunk-munchies.

But so, yes, there is some overlap in the serotonergic department between psychedelics and MDMA. However, drugs like LSD, psilocybin, Mescaline, 2C-B, etc. exhibit their effects through a different mechanism.

so if its hitting the same exact h2a receptor as a psychedelic, are psychedelic supposed to have the wait three month, in general, rule that entactogens have?

No, they're safer to do more frequently owing to the fact that they don't cause the massive 5-HT storage all-at-once-dump-and-run in your brain that rolling causes. That's why recovering from tripping is cakewalk, but recovering from rolling face is pretty fucking shitty, in my humble opinion.

Ive done mdma , more than likely mda, in some of 30 some ecstacy pills I abused from 2000-2001.

Not "used" but specifically "abused" them?

5-mapb, 6apb, methallylescaline

Done Miprocin as a main typtamine psychedelic, many times as its quite similar to the other sub-4's typtamines. Mixed Miprocin with 6apb, and had massive negative side effects. Mixed it with 5 mapb a couple times and that went fine, a candy flip, as it was mentioned earlier in this thread. I came to the conclusion, for now, that typtamine psychedelic's aren't for me. They seem too much overwhelm for me, with the moving pictures, deep headspace, and first few times I did them alone inside I cried a lot. The first time was with en ex and I could have held back , but when alone if you have to, you can really let go. As I did them more and more, when I went outside in nature its better. That said, the last time I did miprocin, over a year ago, I did it on vacation, in a house, went down to boardwalk, ran on beach at night, back inside in room , picture on wall moving, and thought I dont like this. Since then Ive found Mal, Methallylescaline , and seems gentlier, and headspace better, not like an entacogen, but more like one than miprocin, if that makes sense, from it being nicer.

Oh that's too bad. Tryptamines can be so rewarding otherwise. Personally, I'm a big fan of 4-HO-MET and 4-AcO-MET. Something about that arrangement puts me in a great mood.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Some brain cells just have to die heroically

Great quote, that one's gonna stick

 

[Xorkoth]

Patenting the combination of LSD and MDMA? God that irks me. I guess patents and "intellectal property" are part and parcel with legalization/acceptance. I suppose I'd rather have to deal with that capitalistic shit and be able to have psychedelics be accepted and studies and un-demonized, over them staying how they've been since their prohibition.

so its just a particular crystal structure that dissolves before it gets to your brain? would there be any use to such a crystal structure outside of marketing?

Debatable. Most people say that no, it doesn't make any difference. I say, I don't think we know. There must be something different about the molecule to make it crystallize differently, something that we don't really understand. I think we don't know the whole picture, by a longshot, either with chemistry/atoms/molecules, or with how they interact with the brain. My guess is there are properties of atoms/molecules that we do not yet know how to detect or even have a name for. And who's to say those unknown properties don't produce some differences in subjective effects?

I'm not saying this is definitely true, just that my mind is open.

 

[Freeotrope]

Patenting the combination of LSD and MDMA? God that irks me. I guess patents and "intellectal property" are part and parcel with legalization/acceptance. I suppose I'd rather have to deal with that capitalistic shit and be able to have psychedelics be accepted and studies and un-demonized, over them staying how they've been since their prohibition.

I feel similarly. I could see it both ways, on the hand they clearly didn't invent the candy flip. The other hand is just speculation, but perhaps it will make it worthwhile for them to invest in studies demonstrating the efficacity of the candyflip for treatments and get insurance companies on board, or help develop novel modalities to use in combonation (maybe they could add dancing to the candy flip for something really wild ). On the third hand just legalize these things so we don't have to pay insurance companies tons of money. there are more hands but im lazy

Debatable. Most people say that no, it doesn't make any difference. I say, I don't think we know. There must be something different about the molecule to make it crystallize differently, something that we don't really understand. I think we don't know the whole picture, by a longshot, either with chemistry/atoms/molecules, or with how they interact with the brain. My guess is there are properties of atoms/molecules that we do not yet know how to detect or even have a name for. And who's to say those unknown properties don't produce some differences in subjective effects?

I'm not saying this is definitely true, just that my mind is open.

I appreciate open minds and the surprise and wonder when we find something new. Its possible that what ever is used to crystalize a substance could create dimers that would have different effects or something

 

[unodelacosa]

Patenting the combination of LSD and MDMA? God that irks me.

I think they're patenting the treatment technique of a guided experience on both LSD and MDMA designed to work through heavy psychological matters. I can get behind that. I have little choice but to place some faith in our copyright system. Sure it needs improving, but it's something…

I guess patents and "intellectal property" are part and parcel with legalization/acceptance. I suppose I'd rather have to deal with that capitalistic shit and be able to have psychedelics be accepted and studies and un-demonized, over them staying how they've been since their prohibition.

Yeah but there's still a big difference between medically prescribed MDMA taken with medical purpose in mind versus recreational MDMA use. It sucks to consider that this would be subject to luxury taxation…

Debatable. Most people say that no, it doesn't make any difference. I say, I don't think we know.

Nah, we know. You ever peeped at the academic study of structural science and crystallography? Pharmaceutical research knows all about it, trust. The big thing is that very fine, detailed control over crystal formation and polymorphs displays both a prowess with the substance and is a testament to sophisticated purity techniques and hence high purity.

There must be something different about the molecule to make it crystallize differently, something that we don't really understand.

I think you underestimate the grasp on the subject that modern science already has established. It's easy to do; crystallography is an easy subject to forget about. Anyway a lot of factors play into polymorph formations

I think we don't know the whole picture, by a longshot, either with chemistry/atoms/molecules, or with how they interact with the brain.

Fundamentally, we don't know how our brains put together the experience of conscious awareness, so this claim is easy to make until we get to the bottom of that mystery.

My guess is there are properties of atoms/molecules that we do not yet know how to detect or even have a name for. And who's to say those unknown properties don't produce some differences in subjective effects?

Well, that's why we use the scientific method. We have to be careful not to fall into superstition and avoid confirmation biases as much as possible. Also to prove something takes evidence not imagination.

Its possible that what ever is used to crystalize a substance could create dimers that would have different effects or something

So forming a novel polymorph of psilocybin mostly serves the purpose of creating a patent. However, it's also a refinement to the purity of the product whenever it's recrystallized, as crystal formation itself is a means to purify something in organic chem. And it's aesthetically pleasing to boot!

 

[Freeotrope]

So forming a novel polymorph of psilocybin mostly serves the purpose of creating a patent. However, it's also a refinement to the purity of the product whenever it's recrystallized, as crystal formation itself is a means to purify something in organic chem. And it's aesthetically pleasing to boot!

I don't know about pure molecules in organic chemistry but in biochemistry salts are often added to crystalize proteins. i had a friend getting a phd who needed to crystalize a protein to get its xray structure and he spent years programing a robot to create all kinds of different solutions of different salts before he was actually able to crystalize it. i think his needed a really high concentration of zinc

i was thinking maybe adding a salt to an organich chemical crystal might change its 3d structure making it patentable...

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Vinyl addict talks about his records, newer videos often include sound fragments. Simple concept that's wonderfully executed, great channel

 

[Xorkoth]

Nah, we know. You ever peeped at the academic study of structural science and crystallography? Pharmaceutical research knows all about it, trust. The big thing is that very fine, detailed control over crystal formation and polymorphs displays both a prowess with the substance and is a testament to sophisticated purity techniques and hence high purity.

I think you underestimate the grasp on the subject that modern science already has established. It's easy to do; crystallography is an easy subject to forget about. Anyway a lot of factors play into polymorph formations

All I'm saying is, the nature of reality and chemistry is something we have only been able to really dig deep into for the past hundred years or so. It seems cavalier to me to declare that what we know now is the pinnacle, that there are no mysteries or secrets left. That has never been the case before, ever, in human history; why would it be now? I think it's important to keep an open mind and not fall into the trap of thinking what we know is complete and infalliable.

I'm not saying my postulation is fact... I don't know and have no evidence-based arguments for it, nor am I trying to make an attempt at proving it. Certainly the placebo and nocebo effects are powerful, very powerful. But I try not to dismiss anything anyone experiences or hypothesizes out of hand just because it doesn't line up with the current state of research. Advances in understanding come from people questioning the status quo. That's all it is, an idea, and a question. I do not believe we have a total understanding of organic chemistry, nor of how drugs interact with the human brain.

Well, that's why we use the scientific method. We have to be careful not to fall into superstition and avoid confirmation biases as much as possible. Also to prove something takes evidence not imagination.

Sure, that's true. But to ponder something takes imagination and attempting to see things in a different way. I'm not trying to prove anything, it's just a thought. My intention was never for anyone to read these words and take them as fact. And I do not have the learning required to even remotely attempt to explore such an idea. I just wonder.

 

[Innerpeace]

Yeah so you cannot patent something that is made naturally or is something that anyone would naturally and obviously think of, so to speak. That's not novel. It doesn't show a new, clever—and thus patentable—idea. No one can patent nature. So in order for Big Pharma's interest in Psilocybin to work, the money has to follow in some significant fashion… they needed something they could patent. And so, in crystallography a compound might have a few different ways it can form into a crystalline lattice when conditions are met for such a structure to form. In structural science, these are called polymorphs and it's been Compass Pathways claim that it has developed a technique whereby they force psilocybin salt crystals into a polymorphic crystalline lattice shape such that it would not otherwise ever form, and as such this is their intellectual property.


Entactogen – "tactile feelings from within".
Entacogen – "tacos from within".
Good point – it was Taco Tuesday!


Short answer: although there's some overlap, MDMA is neurotoxic in a manner that psychedelics are not, so you can use psychedelics more frequently if you like without compromising your harm reduction practices or causing unnecessary neurotoxicity.

Long answer: Yes, there's some overlap – anything that causes trails, undulating patterns, kaleidoscopic imagery, that kind classic psychedelia most likely affects the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor subtype. 5-HT2C tends to get involved, more so for compounds like 2C-B and less so for drugs like DMT. The classic psychedelia is really muted on MDMA, less so with MDA but it's there if you ever look closely for tracers and CEVs.

However, the comparisons stop there. MDMA has a unique action in the brain in which MDMA actually hijacks the serotonin transporter and rides the escalator in reverse, so to speak into the brain's pre-synaptic storage of serotonin, whereby it opens the floodgates like The Joker emptying Arkham Asylum, dumping the cells into the synapses, overloading the serotonin system and allowing 5-HT to overflow into dopamine receptor sites, which regulate our "feel good" centers among other things. So these sites get activated by serotonin but when MAO seeks to remove dopamine from the brain and encounters serotonin instead, serotonin is transformed into the neurotoxic alpha-methyl-dopamine which when left exposed in the synapse brings oxidative stress and eventually can lead to the dendritic arms becoming atrophied and compromising normal cell communication in the brain, which you know, when you think about it, is patently not good.

To put it another way, repeated and frequent exposure to MDMA is neurotoxic. In fact, everytime you use MDMA (or MDA, which has similar action) it's neurotoxic. Brain cells die, dendrites atrophy, another angel gets its wings torn off, lol. I'm just being dramatic, and to keep it in perspective, every time you imbibe (ethyl) alcohol—you know, booze, spirits, the sauce – it's also neurotoxic and brain cells die. Do enough brain cells die to worry about it? In virtually every instance: no. Some brain cells just have to die heroically, I guess, for the rest of the brain cells to enjoy coming home with the drunk-munchies.

But so, yes, there is some overlap in the serotonergic department between psychedelics and MDMA. However, drugs like LSD, psilocybin, Mescaline, 2C-B, etc. exhibit their effects through a different mechanism.


No, they're safer to do more frequently owing to the fact that they don't cause the massive 5-HT storage all-at-once-dump-and-run in your brain that rolling causes. That's why recovering from tripping is cakewalk, but recovering from rolling face is pretty fucking shitty, in my humble opinion.


Not "used" but specifically "abused" them?


Oh that's too bad. Tryptamines can be so rewarding otherwise. Personally, I'm a big fan of 4-HO-MET and 4-AcO-MET. Something about that arrangement puts me in a great mood.

Taco Tuesday, good one, its here in this town as well at a place closely by. Thank you for the correct spelling.

Yes, dopamine equals feel good, theyre are many natural and unnatural ways to raise dopamine, Andrew Huberman is the best person on this subject Ive came across. Dopamine replenishes itself very fast, so as long as its not raised too high, too much, too often, its good to go. If its always raised too high and way too high, one can develop Parkinson's.

Ive found when partaking in an entactogen, after much experience, moderate doses at most, as ive had three major serotnin sydrome episodes , after consuming entactogen, I only describe one later on . Yeah I consider dosing triple stack ecstacy pills, which were super strong, twice a week or back to back days, or snorting a half of one while swallowing one, or waiting three weeks then using it three times in one week, this went on six months, and about thirty pills, back from 2000-2001, until they simply lost the magic, I took a six month break and got it back some, but for the most part it was gone from about thirty pills of ecstacy, one batch was double stacks and one triple, which I gave up and got into improving my life , because I was going down the wrong path, hanging around negative influences and did a one eighty, for the most part.

Joined here in 2012 because the feeling I experienced on the entactogen was some of the best ive remembered. 2015 found 5-mapb, dosed way too high 107 mgs, and it tested out good on a five reagent test kit. I worked for a supplement company and took passion flower, 5-htp, and some other herbs i researched, and came to the conclusion some of these, passion flower, and 5-htp, a day after 5 mapb caused this, although im unsure, be well researched with every herb and how it behaves, when taking anything. I threw 3 grams of away after a week of brain zaps, crying and getting super emotional over things , passing out banging my head on kitchen floor while cooking burgers, low blood sugar, faintly, classic serotonin syndrome.

4-ho-met and 4-AcO-met would act similar to 4-ho-mipt., which is the one I decided I didnt want to do anymore, after ten experiences on it. Could it be that certain people enjoy certain drugs due to their personality, and other ones just dont want to go heavy or deep experience and looking for a more gentle experience?

 

[Bagseed]

Debatable. Most people say that no, it doesn't make any difference. I say, I don't think we know. There must be something different about the molecule to make it crystallize differently, something that we don't really understand. I think we don't know the whole picture, by a longshot, either with chemistry/atoms/molecules, or with how they interact with the brain. My guess is there are properties of atoms/molecules that we do not yet know how to detect or even have a name for. And who's to say those unknown properties don't produce some differences in subjective effects?

how a compound is arranged in a crystal lattice has to do with the conditions in which the crystallisation takes place (temperature, pressure, impurities...). if the atoms of C, H, N, O and P form the correct molecule, it is psilocybin, if not then it's something else. Either way, the information of the crystal structure gets lost for all intents and purposes, when it gets dissolved in water and each molecule gets liberated from the lattice. all the molecules in solution have the same chemical properties, no matter in which crystal structure they existed before getting dissolved.

 

[perpetualdawn]

how a compound is arranged in a crystal lattice has to do with the conditions in which the crystallisation takes place (temperature, pressure, impurities...). if the atoms of C, H, N, O and P form the correct molecule, it is psilocybin, if not then it's something else. Either way, the information of the crystal structure gets lost for all intents and purposes, when it gets dissolved in water and each molecule gets liberated from the lattice. all the molecules in solution have the same chemical properties, no matter in which crystal structure they existed before getting dissolved.

I always wonder if what we think is a "solution" can sometimes actually still have molecules kicking around in crystalline form, tiny little microscopic crystals, comprised of maybe 10 maybe 100 maybe 100000 molecules.. If this happens would we know it?

You know when you dissolve sugar in water, you see the crystals get smaller and smaller. Maybe they're breaking off tiny chunks of 10 sugar molecules at a time, still bound in crystal form but floating around in the water, and not fully breaking apart. Of course we'd never see that under a microscope. But there must be other ways to detect that kind of thing, and surely someone has looked at this before.

 

[Bagseed]

I always wonder if what we think is a "solution" can sometimes actually still have molecules kicking around in crystalline form, tiny little microscopic crystals, comprised of maybe 10 maybe 100 maybe 100000 molecules.. If this happens would we know it?

You know when you dissolve sugar in water, you see the crystals get smaller and smaller. Maybe they're breaking off tiny chunks of 10 sugar molecules at a time, still bound in crystal form but floating around in the water, and not fully breaking apart. Of course we'd never see that under a microscope. But there must be other ways to detect that kind of thing, and surely someone has looked at this before.

I think if it was thermodynamically more favorable for molecules to stick together they would just keep doing that and crash out of the solution. I mean if two dissolved molecules run into each other in the solution they will interact. but not strongly enough to stay clumped together.

if a solution is just saturated, you could imagine tiny crystals being suspended in the liquid, but then they are solid matter. and it is hard to imagine a drug to be in such a high concentration in vivo for this to actually happen.

furthermore, to interact with a receptor, drugs have to be dissolved anyway. a hypothetical cluster of molecules couldn't interact just like that with a very specific receptor.

I only hold a bsc in chem though, and then left uni. so take my educated guessing with a grain if salt

 

[porkstock]

On the polymorph A topic (too lazy to quote), Compass Pathways claims that it increases purity as you guys have been discussing, as well as stability.

 

[cosmic charlie]

Well I splurged today and bought one of those iSi Nitrous Dispensers {cost eighty dollars} the really nice stainless steel ones so it will last forever, and is also safest cuz I heard about some of the cheap ones exploding. Also forked out the extra money for the heavy duty steel nozels as well instead of using the plastic ones it comes with {hear those can break after awhile, these steel ones were thirty bucks} Have 150 of their chargers coming as well which contain 8.4 grams so they are slightly larger, they also supposed to have the best quality gas. After this all I will need to pickup up is cart's for now on and balloons when I need more...

They maybe more expensive than some other brands but everyone on Reddit says they are worth it. I'm still gonna use balloons tho and put them on the nozzle, that way I can load up 4 carts worth in a balloon and really blast off. Hopefully that also helps to limit whatever oily residue and whatnot we are exposed to. It would be gathering in the dispenser and balloons amirite?

Had so much fun with the n2O last week and it's something that I plan on doing weekly for the time being. Can't wait until I can start combining with some Psychedelics like the 4-AcO-DMT I'm sure that is going to be epic.

The only drug I have every combined it with was MDMA back in the day which was fun, but I'm sure a Tryptamine will be a whole other animal. Been working my ass off this week it's been super busy at my job, really looking for to spending time with my girl this weekend.

Do any of you have experience with iSi brand n2O products?

 

[Delsyd]

ISI is a good, reputable brand. I don’t think you have anything to worry about.
I’ve been sticking with ultra purewhip lately as they give me the best effect, least amount of side effects.
I’ve been Interested in picking up one of those 580g tanks you can get on Amazon. The headshop by my house sells flavored tanks though I don’t know how I feel about inhaling flavors.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Well I splurged today and bought one of those iSi Nitrous Dispensers {cost eighty dollars} the really nice stainless steel ones so it will last forever,

Noice. I just got an Otis Classic 1 pint whipper, full stainless steel. iSi is the only brand I buy for actual n2o chargers, made in Austria baby.

I’ve been Interested in picking up one of those 580g tanks you can get on Amazon.

Woah that's a thing?! I totally need one now.

 

[Freeotrope]

Well I splurged today and bought one of those iSi Nitrous Dispensers {cost eighty dollars} the really nice stainless steel ones so it will last forever, and is also safest cuz I heard about some of the cheap ones exploding. Also forked out the extra money for the heavy duty steel nozels as well instead of using the plastic ones it comes with {hear those can break after awhile, these steel ones were thirty bucks} Have 150 of their chargers coming as well which contain 8.4 grams so they are slightly larger, they also supposed to have the best quality gas. After this all I will need to pickup up is cart's for now on and balloons when I need more...

They maybe more expensive than some other brands but everyone on Reddit says they are worth it. I'm still gonna use balloons tho and put them on the nozzle, that way I can load up 4 carts worth in a balloon and really blast off. Hopefully that also helps to limit whatever oily residue and whatnot we are exposed to. It would be gathering in the dispenser and balloons amirite?

Had so much fun with the n2O last week and it's something that I plan on doing weekly for the time being. Can't wait until I can start combining with some Psychedelics like the 4-AcO-DMT I'm sure that is going to be epic.

The only drug I have every combined it with was MDMA back in the day which was fun, but I'm sure a Tryptamine will be a whole other animal. Been working my ass off this week it's been super busy at my job, really looking for to spending time with my girl this weekend.

Do any of you have experience with iSi brand n2O products?

Do you get a weird taste with those whip cream cartridges? I really like N20 on psychedelics but the weird taste turns me off. I don't know if its the taste of the gas or something else.

I remember the first time I tried it, was from a tank in a parkinglot at woodstock 97 was on acid and mushrooms and disolved into the fractals