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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Talk Thread: If 2020 Was the Dumpster, Can 2021 Be the Fire?

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perpetualdawn said:
I've been tuning into the dark side of psychedelics - gurus, egos, abuse, control all that. You know you get these real egotistical figures doing weird shit with their adherents and people just lap it up. Psychedelics can be a real minefield when it comes to spirituality etc. It kind of concerns me that as psychedelics get mainstreamed and trending, we're going to see more and more of this shady side - just because of the whole internet culture popularity contest, these kind of egotistical loud figures tend to rise to the top.

Have any of you come across that kind of thing IRL or online?
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Psymposia frequently touch upon abuse within psychedelic circles, more recently about MAPS Canada's ties to the megalomaniacal 5-MeO-DMT guru Martin Ball (part 2 here). Make sure to check out the highlights they excerpted from one of Martin Ball's talks.

On this subject I recommend this short lecture from Dr. Alicia Danforth: Coming Down from the Psychedelic Power Trip
 
@blistersinthedark I've seen some of that really weird shit the Ball has put out and said, before that stuff came out I already thought he seemed distasteful, a typical egotistical tripper type putting himself up high, someone I instinctively want to look away from. No humility, very impressed with himself.

But I think a lot of people are searching for a kind of leader or guru and they can get seduced and latch on to someone like that. People want to believe in someone who is enlightened and can show them the way.

I've recently come across Psymposia and listened to a couple of their podcasts, and will definitely check out their content on MAPS Canada's ties to Ball. I've held MAPS in high esteem for the work they've been doing (only following it peripherally), and wouldn't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but it's really good to shine the light because otherwise monsters grow unchecked. Really good what Psymposia is doing, even if their only role is to criticize and complain. It's super important in a healthy system to have this immune response that can call out the shit.

Also thanks for the Danforth lecture link, will definitely check that out! <3
 
Don't get me started on the "recovery industry". Shit makes me sick. Of course there are good people doing really good work, don't get me wrong. And psychedelics truly have a great potential for healing, absolutely. But there are SO many predatory "practitioners" who are taking advantage of desperate people. Places charging 10 grand for "spiritual healing retreats", with "real shamans". It's gross.

The ketamine clinics are doing too. Places charging $1000 per session and recommending 5 sessions to start, shit like that. Making the world's biggest markup on desperate people too ignorant to know how bad they're getting ripped off. It's disgusting.

And google is fueling it, while simultaneously making it much harder to find no-biased, real information on drugs, by restricting search results on drugs to "information" put up by rehabs and detox facilities and such. Used to be, if you googled a question about a drug, Bluelight and Erowid were always on the first page. Now it's all paid spots by this or that rehab/detox. Bluelight only coms up at all if you actually include "bluelight" in the search query. The result is a vastly reduced ability to find real, nuanced information, as well as vastly reduced traffic and new user influx to Bluelight (and other traditional forums). Makes me so sad/angry.
 
Xorkoth said:
Don't get me started on the "recovery industry". Shit makes me sick. Of course there are good people doing really good work, don't get me wrong. And psychedelics truly have a great potential for healing, absolutely. But there are SO many predatory "practitioners" who are taking advantage of desperate people. Places charging 10 grand for "spiritual healing retreats", with "real shamans". It's gross.

The ketamine clinics are doing too. Places charging $1000 per session and recommending 5 sessions to start, shit like that. Making the world's biggest markup on desperate people too ignorant to know how bad they're getting ripped off. It's disgusting.

And google is fueling it, while simultaneously making it much harder to find no-biased, real information on drugs, by restricting search results on drugs to "information" put up by rehabs and detox facilities and such. Used to be, if you googled a question about a drug, Bluelight and Erowid were always on the first page. Now it's all paid spots by this or that rehab/detox. Bluelight only coms up at all if you actually include "bluelight" in the search query. The result is a vastly reduced ability to find real, nuanced information, as well as vastly reduced traffic and new user influx to Bluelight (and other traditional forums). Makes me so sad/angry.
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That's a really good point about the search results. I dont even blame google completely though - and not to defend them either because they could do a better job - but I think it's more a problem inherent of capitalism, and these rehab/retreat sites having more SEO budget muscle to throw at getting top results. It sucks that masses will be hypnotised to think the only way you can have a trip is supervised by some "expert" in an expensive spiritual Disneyland.

Capitalism eats everything. There must be a better way.
 
perpetualdawn said:
That's a really good point about the search results. I dont even blame google completely though - and not to defend them either because they could do a better job - but I think it's more a problem inherent of capitalism, and these rehab/retreat sites having more SEO budget muscle to throw at getting top results. It sucks that masses will be hypnotised to think the only way you can have a trip is supervised by some "expert" in an expensive spiritual Disneyland.

Capitalism eats everything. There must be a better way.
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I think the past decades of psychedelic demonization are the reason for doctor supervised psychedelic experiences, and not capitalism.

At least there are once again doctors who believe in the power of the psychedelic experience.
 
I mean, I think having a trip guided by a professional is ideal for introducing the masses to psychedelics, especially when it's done to try to help heal emotional damage. However the type of professional I want to see doing it is a trained clinical psychologist, someone trained to specifically use psychedelics for therapy. Not any random neo-"shaman" who wants to make money off of this phenomenon. Research shows that positive outcomes are vastly more likely for the average person when guided by a professional with proper training, in a proper environment. But there should be certification like any other medical practice.
 
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If you close your eyes and imagine a red star, which image do you guys see?
I'm a definite 0 lol, I wonder how common this is
 
perpetualdawn said:
Do you guys ever check out the whole world of mainstreaming/capitalizing psychedelics? A lot of stuff's been changing quickly. There are all these things like bespoke $12000 luxury "spiritual retreats" with guided "shamanistic medicine sessions". Tons of conferences, it seems like everyone's writing a book about psychedelics. Lots of practitioners with dubious qualification.

I've sort of hoped for this day when psychedelics become more mainstream and accessible, but now that it's starting to happen I feel a bit like a grumpy old man yearning for the days when it was more cyberpunk and not so intertwined with the self-improvement industry. I think I just need to get over it, this is exactly what I was hoping for. It's not like it's taking anything away from the more wild + underground side of it.
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Pfafffed said:
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"Their guided mushroom ceremonies—in which 2 to 5 grams of psychoactive fungi are blended with gourmet chocolate—are held at local lodgings and aimed at helping business leaders and executive teams align their companies with a greater purpose."

- this made me think of a dystopian very-near-future where employees are "given the opportunity" to go on mushroom retreats with their team in order that they may better align themselves with this corporate greater purpose. 😖 Lol it would probably backfire anyways, like the MK Ultra stuff did. We can hope.

From The Journeyman collective site: https://www.thejourneymencollective.com/thejourneymencollective-faq

What is the cost of each journey?​

There is no cost. There is only an energy exchange in value.
We only present the invitation to work with The Journeymen Collective to those individuals who are prepared to take on the personalized intensive experience. Each agreement is curated by The Journeymen Collective and the potential client. The journeys we offer are priceless experiential and educational opportunities that provides life-long value for the client. The value exchange for clients that are accepted into a journey ranges from $30,000 to $1,000,000+. The duration of the agreements range from 10 weeks, 6 months to 1 year.​

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TripSitterNZ said:
tolerance is a myth and redosing tolerance i been eating acid all morning and only getting higher by the second for hours on end lol
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I agree with you for the most part.

I've redosed many psychedelics and gotten higher or tripped way longer without experiencing tolerance before.

I tripped 24 hours once on DPT and that's a whole lot of redosing considering DPT lasts about two hours when you snort it. I snorted 90mg of DPT every two hours and did not notice a decline in effects.

I've redosed mushrooms before without noticeable tolerance, but it was in combination with Syrian rue.

The one psychedelic that I can say for sure created a tolerance was 5-MEO-DALT. It's a short high and after my first test was over so quickly I wanted to redose to keep it going. I had to take 2 or 3 times the original dose to get high again.

I hope you are having a good trip @TripSitterNZ. Much love!
 
simstim said:
I've redosed many psychedelics and gotten higher or tripped way longer without experiencing tolerance before.
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as i understand it the phenomenon of tolerance doesnt cover redosing. so tolerance starts to act after youve come down.
 
VerbalTruist said:
How are all you gorgeous humans lately? Catch me up.
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Pretty good, my girlfriend is getting home tonight, she flew across the country to adopt a cat. So gonna have another cat now, he's a 12 year old boy, and my kitty is a 16 year old boy who has never known another cat besides his mother. A bit nervous about that but I'm sure it'll be fine. On Monday I'm traveling to Dallas for work, meeting with the president and vice president to "talk about my ideas for the future of the company". So that's definitely good. Also meeting a BLer for dinner. :)
 
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