☮ Social ☮ PD Social Talk Thread: Firly Swolks Discussing Mitillating Tatters Fithout Wilters

[perpetualdawn]

I am way too private of a person to attend a Narcotics Anonymous meeting or anything of that nature, so I am trying to do it on my own. These past few months, I have actually been better than I have in a long time. Unfortunately, I also have more stress (financial, sick mom, etc.) than I have in a long time. I am almost convinced that I would have gotten clean & sober by now if I didn't have quite so much on my mind 24/7, but that could just be the addict in me making excuses.

I think you should try to challenge yourself to break your privacy barriers and reach out further, whether it's NA or whatever. If it's YOU who is addicted, it can be really helpful to reach out to something greater than the YOU to get over that addiction. You've taken the first step reaching out of your comfort zone and posting here

 

[psy997]

Xorkoth, is there any local movements or action being taken against the newfound wealthy interests? It seems like your town would have a big grassroots type population that would mobilize pretty readily and easily at the thought of what you mention.

 

[Xorkoth]

Not sure to be honest. Probably, yes.

 

[psy997]

Holy refresh times, Batman! Came back home and realized I'd posted after tons of comments.

dreamflyer, you sound like an exceptional human and individual. Please, please don't disappear. Your sharing is incredibly honest and vulnerable and provides a real and meaningful glimpse into who you are and the beauty of your imperfections, as well as perspective into my own situation and the beauty in my own. Thank you. Secluding, shutting up, and withdrawing ourselves is one of the worst things that we can do as humans and neighbors. We all have so much to share, and if we all just did, there would be so much less judgment, both on ourselves and others. We all have something valuable and impactful to add to the conversation that is humanity, and you are no exception.

You are appreciated and loved here All the more for your vulnerability in sharing

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Sometimes I wonder if it's possible to be a PD head without going through a period of opioid addiction at some point. Sure feels like it sometimes

I bet you at least half the frequenters in this thread have dealt with it. I know I have/am...

Xork, that sucks about your town... I remember when Fayetteville (not your Fayetteville 8)) reversed a law that had banned landlords from evicting based upon sexuality. Not sure if they've put it back in place or not, but it was right about when this recent anti-gay hysteria really started ramping up again a few years back.

 

[psy997]

I was actually amusing the idea of ordering some poppies just to see what it's like in the car on the way home earlier, the idea presenting itself for the first time really because of cr00k's amazing opium thread. Then I get on my laptop, open BL, and bam, warnings on warnings of not even trying opiates. Thanks universe

I've done hydrocodone around ten times, codeine + promethazine cough syrup once, and oxycodone twice, but never really had anything more than a pleasant high. The oxy was nice but stimulating and short lasting, way closer to what I was expecting than hydrocodone has ever done, but still. Maybe it's best if I just don't know! Or shit, at least right now when so much is up in the air and I'm sure I'd have a much greater chance of allowing myself to put the experience on a pedestal and walk even a few steps down that path.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I was actually amusing the idea of ordering some poppies just to see what it's like in the car on the way home earlier, the idea presenting itself for the first time really because of cr00k's amazing opium thread. Then I get on my laptop, open BL, and bam, warnings on warnings of not even trying opiates. Thanks universe

I've done hydrocodone around ten times, codeine + promethazine cough syrup once, and oxycodone twice, but never really had anything more than a pleasant high. The oxy was nice but stimulating and short lasting, way closer to what I was expecting than hydrocodone has ever done, but still. Maybe it's best if I just don't know! Or shit, at least right now when so much is up in the air and I'm sure I'd have a much greater chance of allowing myself to put the experience on a pedestal and walk even a few steps down that path.

I very rarely try to tell anybody what they should do (or write in all caps), but when it comes to the recreational use of opioids...

DON'T DO IT!!! 8(

 

[pharmakos]

I hope and believe you will make it through this; what do you think? What is the possible outcome?

Well, I was told that this treatment only has about a 30-40% chance of curing me. After the first two treatments failing when they were supposed to have a 90% and a 70% chance of curing me, idk. I'm trying to not have any expectations and just leaving it up to fate.

 

[pharmakos]

Nice piano playing, Xorkoth. I tried playing along on my guitar but couldn't follow what key you were playing well enough. Did the first one start out in B harmonic minor?

I really miss jamming with people. The old town I lived in, Mt. Pleasant, MI, had musicians everywhere and I was able to jam all the time... Since moving back to my home town tho I've had no one to play with. I've only gotten to play music with another human being a handful of times in the last five years.

 

[iamthetalker]

I think curiosity has a lot to do with PD users falling into opioid usage. People who use psychedelics more than once are by nature very curious--and often skeptical--people, and we hear things like "Nothing in your life will ever feel as amazing as your first dose of heroin!" and wonder "How is it possible for anything to feel that good?" Reading about people's love affairs with opioids here has frequently made me wonder that same thing. "I dunno... MDxx feels pretty damn good, is *insert opioid of choice here* really that much better, or is it just easier to get?" A large part of the epidemic (re-)sweeping America right now is due to how flippantly doctors will write you a script for anything. I've danced with Tramadol in the past (apples and oranges, I know, or maybe oranges and grapefruits) but after experiencing serotonin syndrome on a prescription-level dose my belief that the high from "real" opioids can't possibly be worth the associated costs has only been reinforced...but I think a lot of people don't really have a good grasp of what those costs can be. Your average Joe isn't going to get on BL and research the potential harm or see these heart-rending stories before taking the first step on that slippery slope. Heck, even extremely smart people who are constantly around this wealth of information (e.g. Xorkoth) can still fall prey to curiosity, overconfidence, depression, or even just extreme pain.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I really do hope you can pull through this, dreamflyer, and get back to being the awesome, successful person you obviously are. Same goes for you, Cream Gravy?. I'm happy (relieved?) to say I haven't gone there, and these raw, emotional confessions really help cement my resolve not to go there. So thank you for sharing, and please keep sharing, so that folks like psy997 and I won't ever shrug and think, "Well, maybe just once." Now, meth on the other hand...

NSFW:

j/k . I made the mistake of trusting a source once and took some MDxx while on L without testing and found out it was cut with meth...that shit was the worst. So stimmy and manic.

Xorkoth, it seems like we have a fair bit in common as far as personal history. My wife is in exactly the same boat as your girlfriend, actually. (Minus the controlling father, though he's certainly bullheaded...but so is she .) It's great that she has your support and understanding; it makes a world of difference in a person's ability to handle the valleys, even if we can't make them "better." (It's crazy frustrating, though, isn't it? Not knowing what to do for them other than be there.)

This isn't a recommendation, but simply a question: Have you two considered an ibogaine flood dose as a PTSD treatment? I'd be very interested to know your thoughts on the matter. Actually, a couple weeks before I returned to BL from my lengthy hiatus I stumbled across your expansive--and rather entertaining--iboga trip report on Erowid while I was researching various treatment options for my wife. (The state of mental health care in Japan is bollocks, but she's loathe to leave, especially for the dumpster fire that is the United States right now.) In my case, I ultimately decided not to even bring it up because she has a heart condition which, while minor, may be exacerbated by the ibogaine. She won't touch traditional psychedelics anymore after a bad shroom trip torn down some precariously-constructed emotional foundation and made her feel like any progress she'd made in getting over her past had taken two large steps backward. I know it's selfish of me, but after so much of our early relationship was entwined with--and perhaps accelerated by--psychedelic forays together, I feel like I've lost an adventuring partner. Tripping hasn't been the same without her, though she fortunately does not begrudge me for continuing to do so. But perhaps this is a topic for another board...

By the way, I really hope politics doesn't screw up your town. By all accounts you live in an amazing place! I can't wait to get out of Japan and find somewhere that suits me. It'll be hard to leave national healthcare behind, though .

pharmakos, I'm pulling hard for you! I lost an aunt to cancer. I've also had a high school friend with testicular cancer and while he lost one of his jewels he's been cancer-free for a few years now. Keep hope alive!

 

[The Hypnotist]

I think in general, people deeply interested in psychedelics are high in neuroticism. Opiates work wonders to revert negative emotions (in the short term). I cured my first severe depressive episode with opium, and just got slightly addicted in the process. To get rid of the addiction was easier than to get rid of the depression, but by no means easy. I tried in my second severe depressive episode, it didn't work at all. Just got some cold turkeys. I kept trying without success.
Note that I never took opiates on a daily basis for more than about 3 months in a row, so I never got a really serious withdrawal. And they never were very psychological addictive in my case. YMMV.

Another point that I think point psychedelic users towards opiates, or towards all kinds of addictive drugs. It is the denial of the misinformative drug propaganda in our society. In my own experience after a single dose of LSD when I was 15 years old I couldn't believe any longer most of what society tells you about drugs. Read lots of quite more scientific information about drugs though in the apologetic side of the spectrum and thought that life was all a bowl of cherries.

My experience with opiates has not been as dark as others', so I still think they are amazing tools to have, even if I recognize they are nothing short of dangerous and I have ruined them for myself. My advise won't be don't do it. My advise will be don't do them when you are down. It will likely work and then you will run the risk to become dependent. But I think they are not riskier than alcohol if your mental health is good and you are pursuing them out of curiosity.
I myself have nowadays the rule of just 5 times a year and no problems following it. Bad news are I don't get even 1/100 of the euphoria I used to. And I am constantly trading one addiction for another (curiously cannabis started my addictive behaviour and it has caused much more harm in my life by all means). But I started too young and my mental health is far from ideal.

 

[Xorkoth]

Nice piano playing, Xorkoth. I tried playing along on my guitar but couldn't follow what key you were playing well enough. Did the first one start out in B harmonic minor?

I really miss jamming with people. The old town I lived in, Mt. Pleasant, MI, had musicians everywhere and I was able to jam all the time... Since moving back to my home town tho I've had no one to play with. I've only gotten to play music with another human being a handful of times in the last five years.

Hey, glad you like it. I like the thought of you playing along, but yeah, since I'm playing alone I do shift a lot.

The first one starts in B minor, modulates down to A major, G major, F# major. It doesn't stay there long at all thought, but hinges around B minor (for a while). When I'm playing with people, I try to hear when a groove is happening and stick with that.
Playing with people is the best, I'm really lucky to have great friends to play with and work on our music together.

I think curiosity has a lot to do with PD users falling into opioid usage. People who use psychedelics more than once are by nature very curious--and often skeptical--people, and we hear things like "Nothing in your life will ever feel as amazing as your first dose of heroin!" and wonder "How is it possible for anything to feel that good?" Reading about people's love affairs with opioids here has frequently made me wonder that same thing. "I dunno... MDxx feels pretty damn good, is *insert opioid of choice here* really that much better, or is it just easier to get?"

Well, there is something about opiates... they don't drain you (in the short term) and it's 100% easy, in fact everything feels effortless, extremely functional, deceptively harmless feeling. It's an illusion though. I mean if one could actually stick to every so often, they'd be fine, but the problem is that if you're the type to get addicted that is exceedingly difficult and no one ever realizes they're getting addicted until they're already on that path. Opiates are a subtle alterer.

Stop while you're ahead psy.

Xorkoth, it seems like we have a fair bit in common as far as personal history. My wife is in exactly the same boat as your girlfriend, actually. (Minus the controlling father, though he's certainly bullheaded...but so is she .) It's great that she has your support and understanding; it makes a world of difference in a person's ability to handle the valleys, even if we can't make them "better." (It's crazy frustrating, though, isn't it? Not knowing what to do for them other than be there.)

This isn't a recommendation, but simply a question: Have you two considered an ibogaine flood dose as a PTSD treatment? I'd be very interested to know your thoughts on the matter. Actually, a couple weeks before I returned to BL from my lengthy hiatus I stumbled across your expansive--and rather entertaining--iboga trip report on Erowid while I was researching various treatment options for my wife. (The state of mental health care in Japan is bollocks, but she's loathe to leave, especially for the dumpster fire that is the United States right now.) In my case, I ultimately decided not to even bring it up because she has a heart condition which, while minor, may be exacerbated by the ibogaine. She won't touch traditional psychedelics anymore after a bad shroom trip torn down some precariously-constructed emotional foundation and made her feel like any progress she'd made in getting over her past had taken two large steps backward. I know it's selfish of me, but after so much of our early relationship was entwined with--and perhaps accelerated by--psychedelic forays together, I feel like I've lost an adventuring partner. Tripping hasn't been the same without her, though she fortunately does not begrudge me for continuing to do so. But perhaps this is a topic for another board...

I told my girl about my ibogaine experience to get off opiates (which had only been 5 months previous to when we met) on our first real date. She read my story (I printed it out for her) the first time she went to California to trim buds in our relationship, which was 2.5 weeks into it. I think she's probably pretty far from that. Ibogaine changed my life significantly, but she is right at the point where she's eaten mushrooms 4 times, once with me, and never really gotten past a light dose, and we took acid together a bit ago and she had her first real trip. She wants to take it again, and we also have MDMA, with the intention of having a therapeutic experience with me as the therapist. Waiting for the right time though. She's starting to ask about other psychedelics and seems slightly open to "research chemicals". Maybe she'll get there but I'm trying to let it unfold naturally.

 

[KneelB4Doom]

LSD> Opiates. All day errryday.

 

[spacejunk]

beautiful piano playing xork.
i've had a long song-writing partnership with a pianist, and loving jamming with piano - either with my guitar or synth.
the chord changes and structures composed by pianists tend to flow in different ways to guitar/bass combos, which i really enjoy. i've actually had to re-acquaint myself with playing with other string instruments (when i'm playing guitar) recently.
i picked up my 1961 harmony archtop had a little noodle along with "E alone playing out the sadness". music is one of the best healers in the world. magic medicine.

i've seen people kicking opiates in detox without being allowed any access to music, which i think is cruel! music is one of the best distractions and mood lifters in such a situation.
and i definitely find that playing music can take almost any negative stress off my mind. it's a very meditative thing for me - especially when it's collaborative.
if i don't play music often enough, or go for a long time without playing (especially with other people) i don't feel right. it's something i feel i have to do to stay moderately balanced, emotionally. it's powerful stuff; for me, no drug comes close to how good music feels.

 

[tokezu]

Right of the bat I would have said, it's nonsense that pd users are more susceptible to using opiates, it makes a lot more sense the other way around: users of opiates will usually have experience with other kinds of drugs, because no on starts his drug career with opiates. In the same way that most opiate users probably started out with smoking weed (or with alcohol and tobacco if you want to count those), which at first sight seems to prove the gateway drug theory but only until you realize that most weed smokers actually don't move on to opiates. But I really can't be sure, with that many of you here that are/were using both opiates and psychedelics.

I never tried opiates. When I started expanding my horizon a bit concerning the drugs I might want to take, I thought about it and the only thing that would be of real interest to me would be actual opium. I didn't weigh the pros and cons that seriously because didn't think I would ever have the option to get some anyway. But a few years ago a trusted source mentioned out of the blue that they could get some and that really got me thinking. After some self assessment though, I realized that at that point in my life it would definitely have been a very bad idea to try out something like that. I was going through enough stress as it was and I really didn't need a drug that masquerades so well as a functional coping mechanism, while being anything but.

 

[Xorkoth]

Awesome, glad you played along. Wouldn't it be cool to somehow be able to play together through here? I guess that's kinda how we can except it's not the same of course.

I can't imagine why any detox center would disallow music! That makes no sense. You're not trying to torture people, you're trying to help them get better, and music, like you said, can be one of the best distractions and ways to produce good feelings.

Agreed that music is the best drug. The feeling when you're doing something that's really working, especially with other people, and especially for an audience, is unparalleled. I get pretty worked up to be honest, and then when we're taking a break I'm not sure what to do with myself sometimes. At our last couple of shows, for the set break I just stayed on and played piano by myself.

I got a delay pedal recently so now I have loop and delay, delay is so cool, it's basically playing with yourself from a second ago.

Also I listened to the tracks I posted and man, I think my piano has something wrong with the output jack or something, because the tone sounds like shit compared to how it really is. All the notes I played loud sound way too loud and broken up, only the quiet playing really comes through right. I have to turn it down to 0.6% recording volume on my recorder and it still sounds bad, any quieter and it clips less but sounds too distant; my Nord at the band house I can have at 16% and the tone is good and doesn't clip. Although both are really low so I keep thinking it's something with my recorder's settings, but I can't find anything that changes the sensitivity. Kinda sucks. Still records ideas though.

Right of the bat I would have said, it's nonsense that pd users are more susceptible to using opiates, it makes a lot more sense the other way around: users of opiates will usually have experience with other kinds of drugs, because no on starts his drug career with opiates. In the same way that most opiate users probably started out with smoking weed (or with alcohol and tobacco if you want to count those), which at first sight seems to prove the gateway drug theory but only until you realize that most weed smokers actually don't move on to opiates. But I really can't be sure, with that many of you here that are/were using both opiates and psychedelics.

I never tried opiates. When I started expanding my horizon a bit concerning the drugs I might want to take, I thought about it and the only thing that would be of real interest to me would be actual opium. I didn't weigh the pros and cons that seriously because didn't think it I would ever have the option to get some anyway. But a few years ago a trusted source mentioned out of the blue that they could get some and that really got me thinking. After some self assessment though, I realized that at that point in my life it would definitely have been a very bad idea to try out something like that. I was going through enough stress as it was and I really didn't need a drug that masquerades so well as a functional coping mechanism, while being anything but.

Wise choice... yeah, opium is better than the synthetic or isolated opiates/opioids, IMO, particularly orally. Actually my favorite opiate of all, including heroin (keep in mind I never IVed, thank god), was poppy tea, which is oral opium (as opium residue is on the seeds/pods). Lasted all day and it was really strong and made me feel so peaceful. Pretty multifaceted effect for an opiate. Also got me super addicted, and hellish withdrawals.

I think probably the real reason for a seemingly high incidence of opiate addiction among psychedelic users is that we're basing that opinion on what we've seen in this forum (at least I am)... and we're a bunch of crazies compared to most people. The vast majority of people are not as fascinated by drugs as people who frequent Bluelight. You get to a point where you feel alright about trying pretty much anything. And some people really like opiates when they try them, and it leads to addiction.

 

[Xorkoth]

I just realized my guitar player has been sending me our EP tracks to review on Google drive. 8( Been wanting to listen to them at home a lot. Anyway, I'm interested in sharing them. We've been working on these tracks for like 2 months between regular practices, first we got live base tracks (there are 5 songs on the EP) for each, then we did overdubs, and now we're mixing/engineering. I've been learning a lot by being there and helping. We have been really investigating the directional aspects of the sound, and putting each instrument into its own place. I'm pretty happy with it. These mixes aren't final but they're close, probably one more round, other than mastering it afterwards. I can hear some little volume adjustments and stuff that need doing. Pretty close on all of them but these two are the closest.

The first one here is going to be the first track. Last night during mixing I decided to try to overdub and replace my solo, and used a slightly different tone and it led to the second half of the song really improving a lot, which is cool because we thought all the parts were in: https://soundcloud.com/user-636222547/mixed-verse-mix-2

This one is going to be the 4th track, this one also really improved during mixing because of additions: https://soundcloud.com/user-636222547/567-mix-2

If anyone has any feedback I'd be happy to hear it too, because this is the first time we've decided to record an album rather than just tidying up the sound in jams. A lot more work has gone into it and when it's done we're going to get it professionally pressed into CDs with covers and everything and give it to places we want to book gigs at and so forth.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I think probably the real reason for a seemingly high incidence of opiate addiction among psychedelic users is that we're basing that opinion on what we've seen in this forum (at least I am)... and we're a bunch of crazies compared to most people. The vast majority of people are not as fascinated by drugs as people who frequent Bluelight. You get to a point where you feel alright about trying pretty much anything. And some people really like opiates when they try them, and it leads to addiction.

Ya, we take interest to the pathological. Kind of toxicomane toxicologists.

 

[Tranced]

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...of-waiting-for-asylum-virtual-reality-trailer

Does this video remind anyone else of a khole? I always get CEV's which involve sliding down gray scale streets and into rooms.etc. It reminds me of this except the colours are less pronounced and less lucid.

Anyway, got what is supposedly racemic ketamine in for the weekend; quite a bit as well, so looking forward to that. I don't get the aforementioned CEVs off the s isomer, and the racemic is no longer prevalent since the India clampdown. So a rare treat to go with some 2c-b, hash and changa.

 

[swilow]

Damn, my laptop appears to have died.