gannetsarewe
Bluelighter
Hi I guess any of the NI posters here over 30 will know at least one friend or relation lost to terror, perhaps a change of thread title might get them to contribute else this may be mistaken for the original thread.
-
🇬🇧 🇸🇪 🇿🇦 🇮🇪 🇬🇭 🇩🇪 🇪🇺
European & African
Drug Discussion
Welcome Guest!
Posting Rules Bluelight Rules -
EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari
Paris terrorist attacks
- Thread starter wcote2
- Start date
SmokingAces
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,301
Whilst I agree in general
Is never going to happen, just idealistic nonsense really it's not likely to ever be accepted with the way these regimes run.
SmokingAces
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,301
And that, is exactly what is wrong. Moderators you have merged without reading, or you are being very insensitive. Why did Pagey's post get merged?
Sadie
Bluelight Crew
The two threads got merged because they are the same topic. 
Sharapovafistpump
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2009
- Messages
- 672
I couldn't help notice that a large percentage of my Australia friends were remarkably quick to play down the extent of the atrocity's due to an admittedly atrocious NATO foreign policy (which includes Australia - many Syrian refugees on Christmas Island?) I wonder how a Melbournian would react if such atrocity's took place in Geelong or Rosebud. Paris is essentially the heart of Europe - France sharing 8 borders within the schengen agreement.
NATO's policy is ultimately one of diminished returns centering primarily on divide an conquer, War based economies such as the US and UK where a obscene war based economies relay on public infrastructure by trading 'defence' for oil. The 3.5% of US GDP is 'defence', $610b, probably makes it easier to justify abandoning heavy weaponry when the orders come to over throw the next sovereign state, when they A, they get a little to influential or B, threaten the petrodollar.
But none of this is news, Saudi Arabia and many other gulf states point blank refusal to take Syrian, Afghan, and Eritrean (primarily) refugees, as a threat to national security - despite ample safe space, ample ability to provide resources, and a generally homogenous population is a disgrace. But then there's not a lot about Saudi Arabia that isn't. Completely unaccountable leadership with no mandate drop a whopping 10.4% of GDP or $80.4 Billion dollars on defence - payment of which often brokered straight for for US dictated Oil prices making OPEC just another subsidiary of USA PLC. However America is fucking everyone over - all at the same time. The ongoing surge of immigration into Europe. Germany expects to receive 800,00 applications and expects France and the UK to to take 650,000 immigrants - France has capped the number at 24,000 the UK 22,000. And this is just the start - lebanon is home to 1.2million Syrian refugees - 50% of the population. Turkey is 'home' to 3 million asylum seekers. In total, as it stands that is 6.3 million refugees. 5/7ths of the population of Sweden.
Headline of the USA Today - After attacks in Paris, governors refuse to accept Syrian refugees. American is thought to have accepted 24,000 Syrian refugees to date http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/16/alabama-refuses-syrian-refugees-paris-terror-attack/75857924/
Australia, don't get me wrong, I think your a great bunch. But sort out your neoliberal social media campaign declaring the the 129 murders in Paris to be insignificant within the wider context - that context as a full NATO member, Australia playing an active role in repeatedly over throwing and attempting to over throw a sovereign state. And guess what the Aussie quota 15/16 is - for the whole of fucking Australia, a continent? 12,000 Syrians and Iraqi's. I don't like dissing Australia but you can bet they will be some cashed up asylum seekers. Stop bitching about the insignificance of 129 innocent civilians in the 'grand scheme of things' from behind a screen and lobby. 12,000 is not acceptable for a country of 23 million and 100th in population density of developed nations. Sweden, 83rd in population density, historically neutral is preparing to accept - 190,000 refugees.
Russia - well, Russia refuses to help Syrian refugees, Russia refuses to join any scheme to help Syrian refugees and blames Western powers for Europe’s migration crisis - while they are to only nation to explicitly barrel bomb key infra-http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11856922/Russia-refuses-to-help-Syrian-refugees.html structure.
China, they have been pretty quiet - well you notice that they have exported $4.25 TRILLION'S worth of arms to Iran, Syria's number one regional ally but hey according to the Asia Pacific Diplomate this wasn’t a calculated outcome by the Chinese; it’s an unavoidable consequence of being one of the world’s biggest arms dealers. $4.25Trillion - how much even is a trillion? http://thediplomat.com/2015/09/how-china-helped-cause-the-syrian-refugee-crisis/
The number of Syrian refugees they are prepared to accept is much easier to work out - zero.
India is happy to accept them if want to make the trek
So lets look at who's getting royally fucked in the ass here - Obviously the Syrians, Iraqi's, Afghans, Eritreans - Syria's sovereign land's decimated, 250,000 killed, vast majority indiscriminately
Iraq sovereign lands decimated, Really depressing reading how many died in Iraq, a Lancet report between years 2003-06 put the body count at 601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths -thats just to 2006 - I've seen BBC statistics around the 3 million figure. What disgusted even more and I just found out today - was Iraqi Oil fields were a nationalised asset, in 2003 an asset that would have provided a Good life. Instead they got hell. This document states that there where $200 Billion readily exploitable with 70% of the fields un tapped (pretty good Idea for a Nationalised industry) https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/185/40642.html This is even more blatant https://www.globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/0723bhpconfidential.pdf
So the Iraqi's were robbed of a nationalised industry operating at 30% capacity yet maintaining a largely state owned infrastructure, suffered a death toll in the millions and growing, a fraudulent case for war based on wmd's was proposed to the UN and rejected - The Cowboys went in anyway - who's going to stop them $900 Billion a year. Ira might be a more prickly pear with $4.25 Trillion! of Chinese air defences. Russia are deployed and have complete air superiority over Syria. While the US, Hmm's and Ha's about ground troops (because arming ISIS - the most reactionary and ruthless definition of Islam in the world today. US wants Assad toppled because of the mutual alliance between Syria and Iran - leaving the next obvious move into the Oil fields of Iran.
But times have changed. The Bush wild west see it, kill it, sell it shock and awe - backed by war criminal Tony Blair wont wash this time, (China's) weapons and Russia's air supremacy are established in all key arenas ISIS - a US instigated bogey man, maintains the Iraqi oil fields and receives weaponry in the tradition of the US based war economy. Peace would bankrupt the US - this article sheds insight http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/16/blowback-isis-iraq-manufactured-oil-addiction
Mean while the tragic exodus of traumatised individuals is immediately slapped with a £120 billion cost to Europe, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11209234/Immigration-from-outside-Europe-cost-120-billion.html
Thanks America, Japan, Australia we'll just pony up all the support the desolate and often deranged need - Take in 6+ million of the world's most desperate and disaffected. Not that we shouldn't, but Merkel is playing a high stakes game. Leaving the support and social services to one side, Europe as part of NATO for many of the survivors of the looted oil fields and 3 million dead it must surely be a case of sleeping with the enemy.
I too grew up in a civil war and was directly effected by purely sectarian murder. When you seize control of a man or womans life, systematically terrorise them, wipe out all they have ever know and loved a pathological fundamentalism may well develop. It has happened in my country and the rest of Europe has a grim form book in relation to fundamental belief systems orchestrating unspeakable acts.
And people wonder why I get high, shiiiite - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45PvLSyHKRg&ab_channel
altonBohnert
NATO's policy is ultimately one of diminished returns centering primarily on divide an conquer, War based economies such as the US and UK where a obscene war based economies relay on public infrastructure by trading 'defence' for oil. The 3.5% of US GDP is 'defence', $610b, probably makes it easier to justify abandoning heavy weaponry when the orders come to over throw the next sovereign state, when they A, they get a little to influential or B, threaten the petrodollar.
But none of this is news, Saudi Arabia and many other gulf states point blank refusal to take Syrian, Afghan, and Eritrean (primarily) refugees, as a threat to national security - despite ample safe space, ample ability to provide resources, and a generally homogenous population is a disgrace. But then there's not a lot about Saudi Arabia that isn't. Completely unaccountable leadership with no mandate drop a whopping 10.4% of GDP or $80.4 Billion dollars on defence - payment of which often brokered straight for for US dictated Oil prices making OPEC just another subsidiary of USA PLC. However America is fucking everyone over - all at the same time. The ongoing surge of immigration into Europe. Germany expects to receive 800,00 applications and expects France and the UK to to take 650,000 immigrants - France has capped the number at 24,000 the UK 22,000. And this is just the start - lebanon is home to 1.2million Syrian refugees - 50% of the population. Turkey is 'home' to 3 million asylum seekers. In total, as it stands that is 6.3 million refugees. 5/7ths of the population of Sweden.
Headline of the USA Today - After attacks in Paris, governors refuse to accept Syrian refugees. American is thought to have accepted 24,000 Syrian refugees to date http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/16/alabama-refuses-syrian-refugees-paris-terror-attack/75857924/
Australia, don't get me wrong, I think your a great bunch. But sort out your neoliberal social media campaign declaring the the 129 murders in Paris to be insignificant within the wider context - that context as a full NATO member, Australia playing an active role in repeatedly over throwing and attempting to over throw a sovereign state. And guess what the Aussie quota 15/16 is - for the whole of fucking Australia, a continent? 12,000 Syrians and Iraqi's. I don't like dissing Australia but you can bet they will be some cashed up asylum seekers. Stop bitching about the insignificance of 129 innocent civilians in the 'grand scheme of things' from behind a screen and lobby. 12,000 is not acceptable for a country of 23 million and 100th in population density of developed nations. Sweden, 83rd in population density, historically neutral is preparing to accept - 190,000 refugees.
Russia - well, Russia refuses to help Syrian refugees, Russia refuses to join any scheme to help Syrian refugees and blames Western powers for Europe’s migration crisis - while they are to only nation to explicitly barrel bomb key infra-http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11856922/Russia-refuses-to-help-Syrian-refugees.html structure.
China, they have been pretty quiet - well you notice that they have exported $4.25 TRILLION'S worth of arms to Iran, Syria's number one regional ally but hey according to the Asia Pacific Diplomate this wasn’t a calculated outcome by the Chinese; it’s an unavoidable consequence of being one of the world’s biggest arms dealers. $4.25Trillion - how much even is a trillion? http://thediplomat.com/2015/09/how-china-helped-cause-the-syrian-refugee-crisis/
The number of Syrian refugees they are prepared to accept is much easier to work out - zero.
India is happy to accept them if want to make the trek
So lets look at who's getting royally fucked in the ass here - Obviously the Syrians, Iraqi's, Afghans, Eritreans - Syria's sovereign land's decimated, 250,000 killed, vast majority indiscriminately
Iraq sovereign lands decimated, Really depressing reading how many died in Iraq, a Lancet report between years 2003-06 put the body count at 601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths -thats just to 2006 - I've seen BBC statistics around the 3 million figure. What disgusted even more and I just found out today - was Iraqi Oil fields were a nationalised asset, in 2003 an asset that would have provided a Good life. Instead they got hell. This document states that there where $200 Billion readily exploitable with 70% of the fields un tapped (pretty good Idea for a Nationalised industry) https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/185/40642.html This is even more blatant https://www.globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/0723bhpconfidential.pdf
So the Iraqi's were robbed of a nationalised industry operating at 30% capacity yet maintaining a largely state owned infrastructure, suffered a death toll in the millions and growing, a fraudulent case for war based on wmd's was proposed to the UN and rejected - The Cowboys went in anyway - who's going to stop them $900 Billion a year. Ira might be a more prickly pear with $4.25 Trillion! of Chinese air defences. Russia are deployed and have complete air superiority over Syria. While the US, Hmm's and Ha's about ground troops (because arming ISIS - the most reactionary and ruthless definition of Islam in the world today. US wants Assad toppled because of the mutual alliance between Syria and Iran - leaving the next obvious move into the Oil fields of Iran.
But times have changed. The Bush wild west see it, kill it, sell it shock and awe - backed by war criminal Tony Blair wont wash this time, (China's) weapons and Russia's air supremacy are established in all key arenas ISIS - a US instigated bogey man, maintains the Iraqi oil fields and receives weaponry in the tradition of the US based war economy. Peace would bankrupt the US - this article sheds insight http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/16/blowback-isis-iraq-manufactured-oil-addiction
Mean while the tragic exodus of traumatised individuals is immediately slapped with a £120 billion cost to Europe, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11209234/Immigration-from-outside-Europe-cost-120-billion.html
Thanks America, Japan, Australia we'll just pony up all the support the desolate and often deranged need - Take in 6+ million of the world's most desperate and disaffected. Not that we shouldn't, but Merkel is playing a high stakes game. Leaving the support and social services to one side, Europe as part of NATO for many of the survivors of the looted oil fields and 3 million dead it must surely be a case of sleeping with the enemy.
I too grew up in a civil war and was directly effected by purely sectarian murder. When you seize control of a man or womans life, systematically terrorise them, wipe out all they have ever know and loved a pathological fundamentalism may well develop. It has happened in my country and the rest of Europe has a grim form book in relation to fundamental belief systems orchestrating unspeakable acts.
And people wonder why I get high, shiiiite - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45PvLSyHKRg&ab_channel
altonBohnert
I was struggling last night 8( - I was typing in Pigeon English after a drink. Press TV is a disgrace (IMHO) it is the lowest form of media coverage there is. Would they have covered Beirut - Yeah, with a twist though. George Galloway quoting the Quran, telling the good Muslims they are ok and only the bad Muslims were targeted. Infidels drinking in bars, enjoying themselves etc.
Your anger and the way it escalated towards me is rather strange and not what I have come to expect from you.
StoneHappyMonday
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 10, 2001
- Messages
- 18,084
I was defending you, drunkenly you then started swearing at me. You work it out.
Press TV has a range of presenters. You pick on Galloway I could say Derek Conway, former Conservative MP or Lembit Opik, former Liberal Democrat MP. Yes, they have some odious people on there but they also have more female interviewers (not plastic newsreaders, serious interviewers) than any other channel I've seen.
And they generally report a wider range of news from more countries than I see on any other channel.
Go back and look at your posts, where you call me fucked up (oh the irony) and say I'm using words like 'fact' when I'm not.
Yeah. You were struggling. Remind me not to try backing you up again in a hurry.
Press TV has a range of presenters. You pick on Galloway I could say Derek Conway, former Conservative MP or Lembit Opik, former Liberal Democrat MP. Yes, they have some odious people on there but they also have more female interviewers (not plastic newsreaders, serious interviewers) than any other channel I've seen.
And they generally report a wider range of news from more countries than I see on any other channel.
Go back and look at your posts, where you call me fucked up (oh the irony) and say I'm using words like 'fact' when I'm not.
Yeah. You were struggling. Remind me not to try backing you up again in a hurry.
i think all these news sources have value in that you can begin to work out what is propaganda and what other countries takes are on events, none of them are infallible but dialogue is whats important and to get that you have to listen to everyones point of view and reporting and assemble it yourself, wether it be the guardian, the sun, the daily mail, press tv, russia today, fox news whatever. I look at from the perspective of a psychoanalyst reviewing the statements that are put out and how ideology, politics and culture all converge to influence any kind of media output.
George Galloway is as divisive a figure as any other talking head, they all are, no one is right, anyones notion of the "truth" is just what you personally construct after analysing and distilling the info that is out there...
theres my 2p and statement of the bleedin obvious etc.
George Galloway is as divisive a figure as any other talking head, they all are, no one is right, anyones notion of the "truth" is just what you personally construct after analysing and distilling the info that is out there...
theres my 2p and statement of the bleedin obvious etc.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
My thoughts and sympathy are with you Pagey and anyone else directly affected.
Good posts above. I'm a bit sceptical about how significant/relevant all that stuff about ISIS' infantile theology is. The stories they spin to recruit idiots who'll strap bombs to themselves is one thing (though i still think the adventure/ego is as much a motivation), but the top level of ISIS will be motivated by all the usual non-spiritual things like money/power/oil/slaves(/their cia mind control handler) etc - this is the same with the neocons who don't really believe all that clash of civilisations stuff, they just think the public are better controlled using simple myths of good and evil (after leo strauss). I think focussing on the theology of ISIS is a red herring that can play into the hands of the people who think 'islam=evil' is enough to explain the complex reality.
Without for one second apologising for any terrorists (i don't believe in violence), it seems to me ISIS is a result of what we've done in the middle east: not only indirectly by fucking iraq up, but directly by training up jihadis over decades how to be terrorrists to act as our deniable proxy armies - they didn't get all that knowledge from nowhere (see Mark Curtis' Secret Affairs for proof). There's also the small matter of the massive influx of weaponry sent into syria over the last few years (and a few years ago the media were practically encouraging people to go and fight assad). If (if) some of these trained-up terrorists have now gone rogue and started teaching each other without our guidance, our states moaning about it is a bit bloody rich when it was us that started it all off (we can still moan about it, but in the end it's up to us to stop our leaders and we've failed). We (the west) have been doing this for a century and more: my grandad worked out in pakistan in the 40s "teaching people how to make bombs" as he used to tell us)
Good posts above. I'm a bit sceptical about how significant/relevant all that stuff about ISIS' infantile theology is. The stories they spin to recruit idiots who'll strap bombs to themselves is one thing (though i still think the adventure/ego is as much a motivation), but the top level of ISIS will be motivated by all the usual non-spiritual things like money/power/oil/slaves(/their cia mind control handler) etc - this is the same with the neocons who don't really believe all that clash of civilisations stuff, they just think the public are better controlled using simple myths of good and evil (after leo strauss). I think focussing on the theology of ISIS is a red herring that can play into the hands of the people who think 'islam=evil' is enough to explain the complex reality.
Without for one second apologising for any terrorists (i don't believe in violence), it seems to me ISIS is a result of what we've done in the middle east: not only indirectly by fucking iraq up, but directly by training up jihadis over decades how to be terrorrists to act as our deniable proxy armies - they didn't get all that knowledge from nowhere (see Mark Curtis' Secret Affairs for proof). There's also the small matter of the massive influx of weaponry sent into syria over the last few years (and a few years ago the media were practically encouraging people to go and fight assad). If (if) some of these trained-up terrorists have now gone rogue and started teaching each other without our guidance, our states moaning about it is a bit bloody rich when it was us that started it all off (we can still moan about it, but in the end it's up to us to stop our leaders and we've failed). We (the west) have been doing this for a century and more: my grandad worked out in pakistan in the 40s "teaching people how to make bombs" as he used to tell us)
Last edited:
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Nah, they're just pissed off that they didn't get to take over the world 900 years ago. As you say, for the people in control of ISIS, religious ideology is just a front for their quest for world domination. Perhaps 'The West' is partly responsible for providing the ability, but the intent has been simmering for centuries. Now it's coming to the boil.
In a nutshell, It's all about power and control - which has always been synonymous with religion. Unless the world can be freed from religion, we will never find peace.
In a nutshell, It's all about power and control - which has always been synonymous with religion. Unless the world can be freed from religion, we will never find peace.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
But that tiny ragtag bunch of idiots in the desert haven't really got any chance of even dominating the small patch of desert they're in though have they? They only exist now because someone didn't bomb the fuck out of them using the sattelite images they must have of them (and the constant stream of funding and weapons from our allies (as Putin said to the G20 the other day)).
Sure a handful is all that's needed to do terrorism, but that's in no way an existential threat to any state (we survived the ira as was said above). The main existential threat to our countries are letting our leaders rip up all our freedoms using this as an excuse.
Read Mark Curtis' Secret Affairs to hear how radical political islam was hijacked/nurtured by the british empire as a natural ally against democracy in the middle east - it's all there to see in official documents. To cast back over the history of islam and say there was always in inherent tendency to evil is just complete bollocks: i could just as easily find all sorts of odious writings by christian scholars of the last few centuries which would prove exactly zero about the current world situation. You show me a wahabi and i'll show you a sufi (just like you show me a westboro baptist christian and i'll show you a quaker)
Sure a handful is all that's needed to do terrorism, but that's in no way an existential threat to any state (we survived the ira as was said above). The main existential threat to our countries are letting our leaders rip up all our freedoms using this as an excuse.
Read Mark Curtis' Secret Affairs to hear how radical political islam was hijacked/nurtured by the british empire as a natural ally against democracy in the middle east - it's all there to see in official documents. To cast back over the history of islam and say there was always in inherent tendency to evil is just complete bollocks: i could just as easily find all sorts of odious writings by christian scholars of the last few centuries which would prove exactly zero about the current world situation. You show me a wahabi and i'll show you a sufi (just like you show me a westboro baptist christian and i'll show you a quaker)
Last edited:
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Perhaps they haven't got a hope in hell of achieving their aims, but they're definitely a tenacious bunch. The world is just a fucked up place, due to the combined influences of human nature and religion. Unfortunately, religion tends to perpetuate the worst aspects of human nature.
Sharapovafistpump
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2009
- Messages
- 672
Although a few years ago I'd of agreed F.U.B.A.R, Now I don't know.
Even Scientists including Hawking's reckons 'there's something up there'. Quantum Physic's, the multi-verse and that many latest experiments have to take place in a vacuum - because simple observation radically alters the results, it's beyond me.
Abraham Religion littered with prophets (and profits) depress me. Although much of the intention may of began well, it seems Islam (not expert....) wound up in a I'm holier than you, pissing contest of one up man ship, where the most extreme will always dominate the headline media. Christianity, while certainly contains solid moral teachings and most Christian people I know 'seem' to be some of the most content has been monetized and sanitized and to ad extent bastardized by Sex scandals and West boro baptists.
Personally I believe somethings doing something, and its not all a mathematical construct, it's also not my job to figure it out - if any deity wants a chat, i'm in the book.
Secularism can be as corrosive as theism if you allow it. Peddling the hamster wheel harder and harder for shit that is sold to make you life more enjoyable, care-free, sensual, the cumulative effect of this mass bombardment of empty promises, or worse, if you can't afford it, well guess your not worth it. In a way it's surprising there hasn't been a capitalist Jihad https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Even Scientists including Hawking's reckons 'there's something up there'. Quantum Physic's, the multi-verse and that many latest experiments have to take place in a vacuum - because simple observation radically alters the results, it's beyond me.
Abraham Religion littered with prophets (and profits) depress me. Although much of the intention may of began well, it seems Islam (not expert....) wound up in a I'm holier than you, pissing contest of one up man ship, where the most extreme will always dominate the headline media. Christianity, while certainly contains solid moral teachings and most Christian people I know 'seem' to be some of the most content has been monetized and sanitized and to ad extent bastardized by Sex scandals and West boro baptists.
Personally I believe somethings doing something, and its not all a mathematical construct, it's also not my job to figure it out - if any deity wants a chat, i'm in the book.
Secularism can be as corrosive as theism if you allow it. Peddling the hamster wheel harder and harder for shit that is sold to make you life more enjoyable, care-free, sensual, the cumulative effect of this mass bombardment of empty promises, or worse, if you can't afford it, well guess your not worth it. In a way it's surprising there hasn't been a capitalist Jihad https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Vurtual
Bluelighter
Athiests will say religion is a load of shit when nearly everything they know is a set of stories handed down to them by a preistly scientific authority; most people's belief in the big bang is not really much different in essence to belief in god's creation - it's just the current worldview they adopt from the mainstream (just like they'd be christian a few centuries ago) - most don't do any maths or build a radio telescope.
I've read the quran and the bible and they're pretty much morally the same: mostly nice with a few idiotic bits and lots of stuff that was of its time; the quran is more coherent (having one author), but this also makes it easier to quote mine out of context (the bible's incoherence lets it wriggle out of this more but is still easy pickings). When read as a whole, and honestly, they're both clearly good in overall intention (imo) (though i disagree with nearly all the practical details (details is where these things go wrong)).
I don't think religion is as relevant to the current situation as the usual weapons, money, power and imperialism. And there's a worrying trend in some public discourse that i think needs calling out that treats muslims in pretty much the same way as the media treated jews in past times. (first they came for the muslims...then they came for the violent extremists...then they came for the non-violent extremists, etc)
I've read the quran and the bible and they're pretty much morally the same: mostly nice with a few idiotic bits and lots of stuff that was of its time; the quran is more coherent (having one author), but this also makes it easier to quote mine out of context (the bible's incoherence lets it wriggle out of this more but is still easy pickings). When read as a whole, and honestly, they're both clearly good in overall intention (imo) (though i disagree with nearly all the practical details (details is where these things go wrong)).
I don't think religion is as relevant to the current situation as the usual weapons, money, power and imperialism. And there's a worrying trend in some public discourse that i think needs calling out that treats muslims in pretty much the same way as the media treated jews in past times. (first they came for the muslims...then they came for the violent extremists...then they came for the non-violent extremists, etc)
Last edited:
Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
Im an ex Christian and can say the bible, especially the OT, isnt "mostly nice with a few idiotic bits and lots of stuff that was of its time" These religious books are enablers, all the Abrihamic religions are death cults because they live to die and most don't give a fuck about this world and cannot wait to get to heaven. Most Americans don't believe in climate change, they think God controls the weather. All these books subjugate women and are easily "taken out of context" to suit ones agenda
Do you even science?
Steven Hawking's is most definitely an Atheist
Last edited:
Hey there, Pagey. I've personally known the consequences of war and losing relatives. Not related to these attacks, but I am sorry to hear your ex has been hurt and I hope he makes a full recovery.
These are unfortunate and tragic events in Paris. There have been hundreds of people killed and maimed, many thousands have their lives irrevocably altered. Still the likelihood of any one of us dying in these types of events is not great. All will be well. Try not to lose sight of the bigger picture.
These are unfortunate and tragic events in Paris. There have been hundreds of people killed and maimed, many thousands have their lives irrevocably altered. Still the likelihood of any one of us dying in these types of events is not great. All will be well. Try not to lose sight of the bigger picture.
Pagey
Bluelight Crew
Hey,
Thank you so very much to those who gave compassionate responses. You have no idea how much it means to me as I've felt extremely alone being away from Paris and all my family.
Sadie I get your job as a mod (I was one on multiple forums for quote a while after all...) but these aren't exactly the same two topics at all. This thread is a much more objective discussion of what happened, and that discussion is needed and important, but it's extremely difficult to read for those who've been directly affected by the attacks. Why is it such an issue to have a separate thread for people who NEED to discuss this emotionally and who need that kind of support?
It's not gonna hurt anyone...please could you re-instate my thread
Thank you so very much to those who gave compassionate responses. You have no idea how much it means to me as I've felt extremely alone being away from Paris and all my family.
Sadie I get your job as a mod (I was one on multiple forums for quote a while after all...) but these aren't exactly the same two topics at all. This thread is a much more objective discussion of what happened, and that discussion is needed and important, but it's extremely difficult to read for those who've been directly affected by the attacks. Why is it such an issue to have a separate thread for people who NEED to discuss this emotionally and who need that kind of support?
It's not gonna hurt anyone...please could you re-instate my thread
mrcientist
Bluelighter
I have to say, I agree with Pagey on this one - not only are they different topics, but a separate thread for those who have been DIRECTLY affected is a really sensible and sensitive idea, I don't see the problem??
Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
I know what you mean i had two joke thread about the world exploding - one was which Bluelighter would you save n an older ome which Raas bumped, what would your final wish be if the exploded n they got merged i didn't want them merged n wasn't consulted n now they're ruined because Raas bumped an old thread why couldn't that thread have just been closed.
I'll make you a thread pagey dunno if it'll help. (Edit: I've made a new thread n quoted you pagey hope you don't mind if you do I'll take it down let me know ok?!
Evey
I'll make you a thread pagey dunno if it'll help. (Edit: I've made a new thread n quoted you pagey hope you don't mind if you do I'll take it down let me know ok?!
Evey
Last edited: