Paris terrorist attacks

[spacejunk]

^ top post

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Horrific stuff indeed - what baffles me is the day before IS killed 49 in Beirut, shopping center, suicide Bomber not sure if any of the Media is covering that one?

We used to get a channel called Press TV. It's the best news channel I've ever watched. They got their license taken away in the UK so disappeared off our screens. Can't think why. Oh yeah, they were an English language Iranian TV station.

They would have covered it all. Maybe not OTW's murder suicide.

Trouble is virtually all media is parochial. There's a reason the UK gets to hear about Kenyan atrocities and France 24 reports on a lot of North and West Africa. Old colonies die hard.

If you want a "what I don't get", how about how all the days papers previous to the French attacks were celebrating war and death, specifically the dropping of bombs from unmanned drones controlled from thousands of miles away. You want cowardice, how's that?

But that was ok. Because it "apparently" took out Jihadi John. Or Jilted John, I can't remember. Point is our killing > their killing.

Peace.

 

[gannetsarewe]

^ top post

I concur.

I agree. The rise of Jihadism can be seen as response to a cultural crisis in Islamism. Islamic civilisation peaked over 800 years ago and has declined to the point of near irrelevance in world terms, having no cultural, technological, military, economic contribution to the world at large, the Arab lands being only important for oil, while other civilisations that may have faltered like the Indian or Chinese they have had recent renaissances. The Arab world has suffered military humiliation after military humiliation in the last century, the various Arab/Israeli wars, the two gulf wars etc. This is pretty hard for those who are told by The Book that they are God's chosen people. This has lead to a school of thought attributing Islamic decline to the decline of proper religious practice among the Muslim people who were thus abandoned by God, consequently the only way to restore and increase Islamic power is to return to the pure Islamic practices of the era of the Arab Conquests.

This position has garnered support in many forms in recent years and IS are perhaps its purest form yet. The IS program according to my understanding, reads like something from an abandoned Monty Python script and for that reason I am convinced there is a learned scriptural reason that The Eagles of Death Metal* gig was selected for attack. The main aim of IS, is the end of the world as soon as possible. To initiate the apocalypse the “Army of Rome” must be defeated at a city in Syria (I forget which one now). Attacks in the west are designed to entice “Rome”, which Islamic scholars believe to be the arrayed forces of Christianity (Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant), there they will be defeated by the Caliphate, perhaps because “Rome” will commence battle arrayed as the Chivalric Orders of the Middle Ages mounted on horse and armed with lances and will be easy meat for Caliphate forces armed with the US equipment captured from the Iraqi army. The Caliphate will then turn on and sack Baghdad, however the Antichrist will then arise in the east (Iran) drive them from Baghdad and unto Jerusalem where the last few thousand Jihadi will be besieged by the Antichrist, however when all seems lost Jesus will descend from Heaven and kill the Antichrist with a spear, then the world will end, all the jihad’s and their following will ascend to heaven where it will be nineteen, 13 year old virgins each, all round for eternity. Any scholars of scripture on here may be able to put me right on some of the above but that is more or less the gist of it.

IS are of course a death cult masquerading as medieval revivalists, I doubt many truly believe the above scenario to be achievable in thier lifetime, just as Hitler probably did not believe the final victory possible when he went to war with US/British Empire and The USSR at the same time, the aim was to exterminate the Jewry to avenge WW1, then fight to the death, killing as many of the enemy as you can. The similarities between IS and the SS are obvious and I doubt accidental, the narcissism, the black uniforms, the genocide, the deaths head masks, the child soldiers the flag fetish. Nazism also had a deep religious basis and an ambition to revive an old pagan morality and is a pet philosophy of many a jihadi.

*Just came to me the Eagle was the emblem of Rome.

 

[One Thousand Words]

2014 - two people killed (one sex worker and his lover) in a murder suicide. Four days ago - 43 people blown to bits by IS, suicide bomber's, in busy shopping district. Yeah I can see the similarity in both instances.

My point is the media is covering, you are just not watching.

Even basic pay to has al Jazeer, France 24, BBC Asia, Chinese central news etc, etc. the media is covering Beirut, Kenya, bogota and the dozens of murders a day in Chicago, but the people dictate what they consider news worthy and Paris is considered top dog because it is historically important. Another report on a bombing in Baghdad was shocking in 1962, however today it is just another mass killing in a death zone and therefore gets lost in the noise.

In a world that is still full of death and disorder you can't expect people to want every single mass murder to be reported one after the other on a 24 hr loop. We have enough mentally depressed people in the world as it is. There needs to be space put aside for the cricket scores and the weather

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

I agree. The rise of Jihadism can be seen as response to a cultural crisis in Islamism. Islamic civilisation peaked over 800 years ago and has declined to the point of near irrelevance in world terms, having no cultural, technological, military, economic contribution to the world at large, the Arab lands being only important for oil, while other civilisations that may have faltered like the Indian or Chinese they have had recent renaissances. The Arab world has suffered military humiliation after military humiliation in the last century, the various Arab/Israeli wars, the two gulf wars etc. This is pretty hard for those who are told by The Book that they are God's chosen people. This has lead to a school of thought attributing Islamic decline to the decline of proper religious practice among the Muslim people who were thus abandoned by God, consequently the only way to restore and increase Islamic power is to return to the pure Islamic practices of the era of the Arab Conquests.

Definitely agree with this.

This position has garnered support in many forms in recent years and IS are perhaps its purest form yet. The IS program according to my understanding, reads like something from an abandoned Monty Python script ...... The main aim of IS, is the end of the world as soon as possible.

This is not right though.

They work from a very explicit agenda outlined in a book called Management of Savagery: The Most Critical Stage Through Which the Islamic Nation Will Pass . Yep. The management of savagery.

Management of Savagery argues that carrying out a campaign of constant violent attacks in Muslim states will eventually exhaust their ability and will to enforce their authority, and that as the writ of the state withers away, chaos—or "savagery"—will ensue. Jihadists can take advantage of this savagery to win popular support, or at least acquiescence, by implementing security, providing social services, and imposing Sharia. As these territories increase, they can become the nucleus of a new caliphate.

And not only in Muslim states of course.

the chaotic scenes on the streets of Paris and the fearful reaction those attacks provoked are precisely what Isis planned and prayed for. The greater the reaction against Muslims in Europe and the deeper the west becomes involved in military action in the Middle East, the happier Isis leaders will be. Because this is about the organisation’s key strategy: finding, creating and managing chaos.

The book outlines strategy, like I said, explicitly.

Hit soft targets. “Diversify and widen the vexation strikes against the crusader-Zionist enemy in every place in the Islamic world, and even outside of it if possible, so as to disperse the efforts of the alliance of the enemy and thus drain it to the greatest extent possible.”

Strike when potential victims have their guard down. Sow fear in general populations, damage economies. “If a tourist resort that the crusaders patronise … is hit, all of the tourist resorts in all of the states of the world will have to be secured by the work of additional forces, which are double the ordinary amount, and a huge increase in spending.”

Look at the emboldened words. Then go check the stock market prices today of companies associated with French tourism. I'll tell you. They are all down. Lots. Capitalist investors shifting their capital into safer stocks. Like gold.

It's clever. They are not mindless. They do not want the end of the world. They want to rule the world. They have a plan.

“Capture the rebelliousness of youth, their energy and idealism, and their readiness for self-sacrifice, while fools preach ‘moderation’ (wasatiyyah), security and avoidance of risk.”

“Work to expose the weakness of America’s centralised power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and the war by proxy until it fights directly.” Ditto for France, the UK and other allies.

There is a recruitment framework. The Grey Zone, a 10-page editorial in Isis’s online magazine Dabiq in early 2015, describes the twilight area occupied by most Muslims between good and evil, the caliphate and the infidel, which the “blessed operations of September 11” brought into relief. Quoting Bin Laden it said: “The world today is divided. Bush spoke the truth when he said, ‘Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists’, with the actual ‘terrorist’ being the western crusaders.” Now, it said, “the time had come for another event to … bring division to the world and destroy the grey zone”. The attacks in Paris were the latest instalment of this strategy, targeting Europe, as did the recent attacks in Turkey. There will be more, much more, to come.

Radical Arab Sunni revivalism, which Isis now spearheads, is a dynamic, revolutionary countercultural movement of world historic proportions, with the largest and most diverse volunteer fighting force since the second world war. In less than two years, it has created a dominion over hundreds of thousands of square kilometres and millions of people. Despite being attacked on all sides by internal and external foes, it has not been degraded to any appreciable degree, while rooting ever stronger in areas it controls and expanding its influence in deepening pockets throughout Eurasia.

Simply treating Isis as a form of “terrorism” or “violent extremism” masks the menace. Merely dismissing it as “nihilistic” reflects a wilful and dangerous avoidance of trying to comprehend, and deal with, its profoundly alluring moral mission to change and save the world.

The truth is more complicated. As Abu Mousa, Isis’s press officer in Raqqa, put it: “We are not sending people back to the time of the carrier pigeon. On the contrary, we will benefit from development. But in a way that doesn’t contradict the religion

Isis is reaching out to fill the void wherever a state of “chaos” or “savagery” (at-tawahoush) exists, as in central Asia and Africa. And where there is insufficient chaos in the lands of the infidel, called “The House of War”, it seeks to create it, as in Europe.

All taken from http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis

 

[gannetsarewe]

Dabiq is the town where the Caliphate will defeat Rome, there is plenty out there about it out there.

http://revolutionaryeye.tumblr.com/post/99712100981

An Islamic state is a prerequsite for the end of times, lucky for us, IS seem to be a few Caliphates short of an Apocalypse, 12 are required and there have only been 8 so far by most accounts.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Dabiq is the town where the Caliphate will defeat Rome, there is plenty out there about it out there.

I know. It's the funky name of ISIS's funky magazine.

The 'end of times' doesn't refer to a nihilistic scenario of the end of the world though. It refers to the utter domination of Islam (or their brand of it) over Christianity.

Here's another issue. That's St.Peters Square, Vatican City. Note the appreciation of a return to slavery too.

NSFW:

 

[One Thousand Words]

They are going to be disappointed when they realise most of Rome are atheist not Christian

 

[gannetsarewe]

I know. It's the funky name of ISIS's funky magazine.



The 'end of times' doesn't refer to a nihilistic scenario of the end of the world though. It refers to the utter domination of Islam (or their brand of it) over Christianity.

Here's another issue. That's St.Peters Square, Vatican City. Note the appreciation of a return to slavery too.

I don't know where your getting your scriptures from but mine say the end of times is that, the end of times.
While I can understand the desire for the end of the world, life is shitty in an Arab city, the slavery thing is hard to get.

 

[Bearlove]

We used to get a channel called Press TV. It's the best news channel I've ever watched. They got their license taken away in the UK so disappeared off our screens. Can't think why. Oh yeah, they were an English language Iranian TV station.

They would have covered it all. Maybe not OTW's murder suicide.

Trouble is virtually all media is parochial. There's a reason the UK gets to hear about Kenyan atrocities and France 24 reports on a lot of North and West Africa. Old colonies die hard.

If you want a "what I don't get", how about how all the days papers previous to the French attacks were celebrating war and death, specifically the dropping of bombs from unmanned drones controlled from thousands of miles away. You want cowardice, how's that?

But that was ok. Because it "apparently" took out Jihadi John. Or Jilted John, I can't remember. Point is our killing > their killing.

Peace.

Press TV - are you having a laugh !

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

No.

I was supporting what you were saying. Though I must admit I wonder why I bother sometimes Bear.

They would have covered it all.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

I don't know where your getting your scriptures from but mine say the end of times is that, the end of times.

You're talking the Bible. I'm talking ISIS's interpretation of that phrase. Two different things.

I don't think Damascus was that shitty before the war started.

 

[Ceres]

presstv, rt.com, antiwar.com all sources worth comparing with the uk media.

 

[Bearlove]

No.eo

I was supporting what you were saying. Though I must admit I wonder why I bother sometimes Bear.

When not that many people have even heard of the "gutter of the gutter" press have a laugh - quoting them 'as fact' fucked up mate

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

When not that many people have even heard of the "gutter of the gutter" press have a laugh - quoting them 'as fact' fucked up mate

Is that English? Or are you pissed again?

I said they were the best I'd seen. I never used the word 'fact' anywhere. I used them as an example of a channel that would have reported the Beirut massacre you were moaning had been ignored. I.E, I was trying to support your argument that it was weird no media here reported it.

And wtf are you on about with 'not that many people have heard of them'? Does popularity equal quality?

And again, judging by your sentence structure, there's only one fucked up person in this argument.

 

[Ceres]

http://www.politico.eu/article/the-...-real-foe-islamic-terrorists-salafi-violence/

 

[Pagey]

Paris attacks

Hi,

I know there's already a thread about this but I'm looking for anyone here who has also been directly affected by the terrorist attacks.
I don't mean people who are scared it'll happen in the UK now, or whatever. I mean people who were in Paris at the time or know people who were killed, or injured.
My ex-boyfriend is in a coma and everything I try to talk about it here (UK) I'm told 'well your family's okay isn't it? So why are you complaining?'
I genuinely don't know where to get the support. Can anyone here relate? I've never felt so alone

 

[smackydowners]

i cant personally relate, sorry pagey, but my condolences. that really must be a headfuck and shouldnt be dismissed just because 'well your family's ok'.

 

[growit&smokeit]

My post above was wrong, it turns out. ISIS are pretty fucking serious about Islam law, and keeping it as it was back in the dark ages, hence their lack of hesitation, when it comes to killing Muslims with a more modern view on the subject. From what I understand, the ISIS members that pull the sort of shit that's happened in Paris are generally considered failures and pussies, by the rest. This is what I've just read, and it explains it a lot better than I can, if you wish to know why ISIS exists:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

This article is really brilliant. It sort of says what gannetsarewe and StoneHappyMonday are saying is both correct. That IS want to create an ever expanding caliphate and that they are itching for the end times where they can fight the Rome army and do all the stuff gannetsarewe mentioned.

I've been reading up a bit on Islam a bit recently and hadn't realised how out there some of the shiite sects beliefs are.

For example: The Occultaion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Occultation where the 12th Imam has been hidden somehow since 873. The Alawites, of which Assad is a member, apparently believe that women don't have souls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites. They basically seem to be a bit like the Gnostics of Christianity / Something that Philip K. Dick would have dreamed up as in https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/02/07/r-crumb-weirdo-philip-k-dick/

 

[gannetsarewe]

TBH I based my account of the IS apocalypse on William McCants book on the subject and s that is based on reviews interviews etc as it has yet to arrive in my local charity shop, seems like a good read though.