Overrated and underrated drugs

[Burnt Offerings]

Anything under S-I status is legal. People are quick to admit what they denote as "medication", even if it's really not helping them much. Especially in the US, doctors pretty routinely hand out benzo scripts. High doses are usually in reach at that point, maybe within a few months. They think it's totally safe.

Legalization has started an arms race between providers for the most powerful substance. There are variations, but it's not unlike what tobacco corporations did in trying to maximize the amount of nicotine that people ingest while smoking. Lots and lots of R@D funding on a massive scale not seen before.

I don't think that analogy fits. People can get very drunk on beer. Regardless of the kind of alcohol, there really isn't a ceiling there that's present when people smoke lower-grade marijuana. If you take a lot at the studies, there is a lot of consensus on the increasing potency.

Reefer Madness was a scare campaign driven by unfettered racism. I don't think that you need much more than watch the actual videos they put out. The science though, again, pretty well-confirms that it's an anti-androgen. There's no doubt that bigoted literature and vested interests fueled Reefer Madness, but that's largely how it's separated from current scientific understanding. Seems like people would be more objective about studying marihuana now, as more people than ever think it's not harmful, it's been largely legalized or decriminalized in the states. Why would the researchers be more against it at this point? It doesn't require that much know-how to look at how well recent studies were conducted.

I think you can make your point better without sensationalism. Science. Not angry rhetoric. That's how you can make a point.

Well I don't think I had much angry rhetoric, as you say, but if I did it's only because I feel passionately about this issue. There was a time in this country when we had a deeply ignorant view regarding cannabis and many people's lives were affected negatively as a result, either directly or indirectly (for example, having your probation/parole violated for failing a drug test for cannabis, or incurring a criminal charge due to a 4th amendment infringement using cannabis as a pretext). My own life was affected negatively, but I had already been completely convinced of the need for serious reform regarding cannabis law in the United States because I had taken an interest in & read about the issue.

I'd like to think that we've evolved socially and moved past that ugly time, just like we moved past alcohol prohibition. I even proudly cast a vote to legalize when it came up on the ballot in my home state. IMO this is a fantastic time for the legalization movement and just cannabis generally in the United States. But you seem to think otherwise, so I'm challenging that.

Placing cannabis in one of the other schedules would be a horrible idea. That would open growers and sellers up to prosecution, just as decriminalization would, and probably retail users too. And I have no idea what you're referring to with all this "arms race" business among cannabis businesses...if you want to consume nothing but THC, you can do that right now. If you want to take a big fat hit of pure THC, you can already do that! So I have no idea what kind of sinister objective "big cannabis" is up to.

You keep making these appeals to authority regarding "The Science". My position regarding this issue is admittedly not based on "The Science", because I support the legalization of drugs which are far more harmful than marijuana. I'm not even sure how I'd validate a position of "marijuana should be legal for recreational purposes" with science, exactly? Sure, with medical marijuana you can look at each individual medical condition and see if there's any effect when cannabis is introduced, but I think people should just be able to toke up because I think adults should have the freedom to partake in that activity in this country. That's the kind of country and society I want to live in, so that's why I advocate for it. Cannabis is a drug and like all drugs it has various potential positive and negative effects*, which each user should consider before they decide whether or not they'd like to try it or continue using.

* for anyone interested in scientific investigations into cannabis, this is a good one from a link I posted above from the National Academy of Sciences from 2017: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28182367/ and summary: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425741/

From that document, released a mere 4 years ago:

• There are specific regulatory barriers, including the classification of cannabis as a Schedule I substance, that impede the advancement of cannabis and cannabinoid research (15-1)
• It is often difficult for researchers to gain access to the quantity, quality, and type of cannabis product necessary to address specific research questions on the health effects of cannabis use (15-2)
• A diverse network of funders is needed to support cannabis and cannabinoid research that explores the beneficial and harmful health effects of cannabis use (15-3)
• To develop conclusive evidence for the effects of cannabis use on short- and long-term health outcomes, improvements and standardization in research methodology (including those used in controlled trials and observational studies) are needed (15-4)

That certainly sounds to me like they've got some more work to do and hurdles to overcome before the conclusive results regarding cannabis are attained, which you seem to be implying already are.

 

[Jen X]

overrated : kratom, just does nothing for me but i have a high opioid tolerance

underrated: ketamine and weed

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Well I don't think I had much angry rhetoric, as you say, but if I did it's only because I feel passionately about this issue. There was a time in this country when we had a deeply ignorant view regarding cannabis and many people's lives were affected negatively as a result, either directly or indirectly (for example, having your probation/parole violated for failing a drug test for cannabis, or incurring a criminal charge due to a 4th amendment infringement using cannabis as a pretext). My own life was affected negatively, but I had already been completely convinced of the need for serious reform regarding cannabis law in the United States because I had taken an interest in & read about the issue.

If you want to come off as passionate, not alarmist, there was a way to do that.

I'd like to think that we've evolved socially and moved past that ugly time, just like we moved past alcohol prohibition. I even proudly cast a vote to legalize when it came up on the ballot in my home state. IMO this is a fantastic time for the legalization movement and just cannabis generally in the United States. But you seem to think otherwise, so I'm challenging that.

Placing cannabis in one of the other schedules would be a horrible idea. That would open growers and sellers up to prosecution, just as decriminalization would, and probably retail users too. And I have no idea what you're referring to with all this "arms race" business among cannabis businesses...if you want to consume nothing but THC, you can do that right now. If you want to take a big fat hit of pure THC, you can already do that! So I have no idea what kind of sinister objective "big cannabis" is up to.

The amount of time, money, and work put into a capitalist venture will exponentiate when it becomes mainstream. There will be more Ivy League scientists working on it than ever before possible in order to maximize profit. If society had changed for the better, then our world would not be falling apart from climate change and violence, fueled by that persistent drive to make money. They do not care about anything but that bottom line.

You keep making these appeals to authority regarding "The Science". My position regarding this issue is admittedly not based on "The Science", because I support the legalization of drugs which are far more harmful than marijuana. I'm not even sure how I'd validate a position of "marijuana should be legal for recreational purposes" with science, exactly? Sure, with medical marijuana you can look at each individual medical condition and see if there's any effect when cannabis is introduced, but I think people should just be able to toke up because I think adults should have the freedom to partake in that activity in this country. That's the kind of country and society I want to live in, so that's why I advocate for it. Cannabis is a drug and like all drugs it has various potential positive and negative effects*, which each user should consider before they decide whether or not they'd like to try it or continue using.

If you don't believe in science, feel free to say so. Usually it is applied to study whether or not something is harmful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

* for anyone interested in scientific investigations into cannabis, this is a good one from a link I posted above from the National Academy of Sciences from 2017: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28182367/ and summary: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425741/

From that document, released a mere 4 years ago:

That certainly sounds to me like they've got some more work to do and hurdles to overcome before the conclusive results regarding cannabis are attained, which you seem to be implying already are.

Wouldn't really defer to you on that at this point. See straw man, again...It's not just "illegal" or "legal" these days. So I never supported not researching cannabinoids. Four and a half years ago, cannabinoid research wasn't as fair as it is now. As it is, one source on irrelevant conclusions doesn't prove that cannabis should be legal.

 

[yubacity]

Poopy pods. very underrated do enough give good buzz

 

[Burnt Offerings]

If you don't believe in science, feel free to say so. Usually it is applied to study whether or not something is harmful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


Wouldn't really defer to you on that at this point. See straw man, again...It's not just "illegal" or "legal" these days. So I never supported not researching cannabinoids. Four and a half years ago, cannabinoid research wasn't as fair as it is now. As it is, one source on irrelevant conclusions doesn't prove that cannabis should be legal.

It's not that I "don't believe in science". It's more that I don't accept vague assertions that science has rendered this or that judgement on a particular psychoactive drug should dictate public policy.

Here's two more examples to illustrate what I mean:

I'd go as far as to say that there's a scientific consensus that smoking cigarettes is bad for your health. More people die every year from complications related to smoking than any illegal drug you care to name. The public health consequences of its social acceptance and widespread use are enormous. But, having said all that, I'm not in favor of any kind of a ban or restriction on adult use of cigarettes.

Alcohol too has documented consequences resulting from its abuse, is addictive & linked to violence, and there's evidence to suggest that even moderate alcohol consumption leads to negative health outcomes. Despite its proven harms, I'm not in favor of a ban or restriction on adult use of alcohol.

("Ban or restriction on adult use" both in the sense of limiting consumer availability through changes in their legal status, not that "you should be able to smoke or drink anywhere", just to be clear on that point)

Those are two where the harms are known to be true. With cannabis the harms are more speculative, as it hasn't had the kind of prolonged legalized period that the others had, but I still wouldn't change my position even if a panel of eggheads gave a televised press conference that said, "we, the assembled scientific community, have come to the conclusion, after exhaustive research and investigation, that weed is bad."

 

[Burnt Offerings]

The amount of time, money, and work put into a capitalist venture will exponentiate when it becomes mainstream. There will be more Ivy League scientists working on it than ever before possible in order to maximize profit. If society had changed for the better, then our world would not be falling apart from climate change and violence, fueled by that persistent drive to make money. They do not care about anything but that bottom line.

I'm also not sure what you mean by this...because we live in an exploitative capitalist system, that means that legalized marijuana shouldn't happen? The profiteers who stand to make money from it are often predators (as one would expect in this socioeconomic system) but I'd rather have them distribute the product in the light of day, as opposed to the previous situation. I don't see how slapping it in the same category as oxycodone or alprazolam or whatever other controlled substance does any good at making meaningful reform on this issue.

I've said enough though...I feel guilty about derailing this thread. You can have the last word. And if you want to continue arguing, feel free to PM

 

[izo]

Poopy pods. very underrated do enough give good buzz

true, the right dose of poppies rivals good heroin in every aspect.

 

[marley is good]

 

[G_Chem]

i always thought that phenibut is very overrated especially here at bluelight, and codeine is underrated, one of my favorite opiates.

Phenibut shines best when mixed with other things. I never got much from it alone, but seems to combine well with stimulants and maybe a small bit of alcohol as well if that’s your thing.

Phenibut with MDMA is good shit.

-GC

 

[izo]

this one time i had some clonazepam, a bit of alcohol, some gbl and phenibut together. this was real nice, gaba galore.

 

[yubacity]

true, the right dose of poppies rivals good heroin in every aspect.

ive nod on them different then heroin but still good

 

[Jabberwocky]

overrated : kratom

I don't like opiates and have never been into them but my reaction to many things opiophiles get into when they are tryng to avoid full-blown addiction or sickness is: really? Are you serious? But then again, I do'nt have the lived experience of being lost to opiates so I am not judgy, just bemused.

underrated: ketamine

Definitely under-rated since it offers hallucinations at the level of the world's greatest aesthetic experiences. But I suspect it's just a "once in your life for a few month" type of thing until the novelty wears off and then it's like "why the fuck do I bother"

and weed

Useful if you are a teenager with an over-abundance of IQ and just don't want to be burdened with it any longer.

 

[Jen X]

I don't like opiates and have never been into them but my reaction to many things opiophiles get into when they are tryng to avoid full-blown addiction or sickness is: really? Are you serious? But then again, I do'nt have the lived experience of being lost to opiates so I am not judgy, just bemused.

Definitely under-rated since it offers hallucinations at the level of the world's greatest aesthetic experiences. But I suspect it's just a "once in your life for a few month" type of thing until the novelty wears off and then it's like "why the fuck do I bother"

Useful if you are a teenager with an over-abundance of IQ and just don't want to be burdened with it any longer.

I tried Kratom after becoming a heroin addict and again on 40mg of Methadone so that's probably why i see it that way. My tolerance was high. I was clean (no methadone either) for 2 months and relapsed and my tolerance is still high. Does it ever go back to pre opioid level?

 

[Xorkoth]

Kratom got me into opiates, back when my receptors were virgins and hardly anyone in the US had ever heard of kratom, I was brewing 12-16 grams in the traditional tea method (2 x 20 minute simmering extractions, filter out the leaf), and getting some of the most euphoric highs I've ever had to this day, it was like a cocaine come-up that settled into a strong opiate high. Once I got really addicted to it I stopped getting great highs and once I moved to stronger opiates kratom was ruined for me... nothing but a mild high that pulls me in with the desire to chase it in hopes that it could be good again.

 

[Xorkoth]

I tried Kratom after becoming a heroin addict and again on 40mg of Methadone so that's probably why i see it that way. My tolerance was high. I was clean (no methadone either) for 2 months and relapsed and my tolerance is still high. Does it ever go back to pre opioid level?

Opiate tolerance from addiction seems to be semipermanent. I quit and was clean for 5 years and I was surprised to find that when I relapsed I still required doses that would be dangerous to the opiate naive...

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I don't like opiates and have never been into them but my reaction to many things opiophiles get into when they are tryng to avoid full-blown addiction or sickness is: really? Are you serious? But then again, I do'nt have the lived experience of being lost to opiates so I am not judgy, just bemused.

Kratom is quite recreational actually IMO (some experiences with it actually rank right up there as some of my favorite experiences with any drug tbh). People who didn't have much experience with drugs of its class probably would get the most out of it actually, compared to someone who's only trying to stave off w/d

 

[sage632]

Which drugs do you think are overrated? Underrated? Please explain why you feel this way too.

I personally think that acid is overrated. There is unnecessary hype behind it and when I tried it, the experience was far from what I imagined. Don't get me wrong, I still do like acid.

I think that alcohol and marijuana are underrated. Just because they are widely accepted, many people don't even view them as drugs any more. When in fact, they are the most commonly abused drugs.

A question. How much acid do u take during a trip (guestimation if u don't know the actual micrograms)?

i feel like the who 2c family is waaay underrated, as well as dmt.

Yet, also believe ahayuasca to be overrated.

marijuana is definitely overrated, hippie crack (nitrous oxide),too.

Molly is overrated, especially the shit they call molly now. It blew my mind when I heard some kid at a party say 'this is some really good molly.'

Since molly is pure mdma, there cannot be better or worse types of molly. If it is cut with anything, it is not molly. And it is definitely better when it is cut with ketamine or speed.

 

[sage632]

Originally posted by Beagle
Coke, BY FAR. I just don't get it. WHY DO PEOPLE EVEN TALK ABOUT THIS DRUG?!?!

i love coke.

when discussing something subjective, surely the terms 'overrated' and 'underrated' are essentially meaningless?

alasdair

If u like coke, u should try meth. Same high, but waaay more intense and u don't need another bump 15 mins later.

Plus it's much more cost effective.

How much is a ball of coke like 150, a ball of meth costs like 200 depending on area. A ball of coke will last u 1-4 days. A ball of meth will last u 2-4 weeks.

 

[sage632]

I thought 2c-i was really fun and beautiful. But I guess I can see why soome people don't enjoy it......

Coke's basically a piece of shit but it still kicks ass.

2ci is the most painful thing i have ever put up my nose. Once the pain subsided, it was quite fun.

 

[sage632]

coke is def the most overrated drug. dont give me this lack of exposure shit i used to run shit son. coke is lame. its all image, if ur sellin it or really close to anyone that is, you will find out very quickly that people only pay your out the ass prices for the image, not for the high.

crack/base is a totally different universe, but the same hypothesis can be applied in a given scenario.

a lot of people say dope is overated, but theyre all idiots that think coke has some use outside of turning basic sex into a fuckfest.

lol i just read that heroin is a subtle high thing. hahahahahhahaha oh shit thats funny. what did u pop a 5mg hydrocodone and think "oh so this is what opiates are like..."



i think you need to find some quality homegrown

or make a keef screen. or cook with marijuana.

no cannabis is in no way anything related to mushrooms lsd etc, but in the right setting with the right kind of herb it can be very "mind revealing" (the definition of psychedellic)

*Kyv