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Organ donation & presumed consent - should the state own our disease riddled corpses?

StoneHappyMonday said:
Isn't it just religious idiots against this? Because they fear going to heaven missing a kidney or some bit? I don't see what possible objections rational people have to this and I'm proud to live in Wales where they're pioneering it.
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I don't see me advocating Stalinism in that sentence Mysh so, er, fuck off eh?

If people cared a bit more in the first place, enough to opt-in with no shortages, then there would be no need for any sort of coercion, implied or otherwise. Seems to me (IMO etc) we just have a few selfish fucks raising their hands because they think they're being forced to help a fellow human. I think I'd be more prepared to whinge about apathy and selfishness before I went around alleging Stalinist sympathies to those of us who believe our dead bodies might just be more use to the living than ourselves.

Chill Winston. Is it coz I slagged Nico or stuck up for Farmaz btw? :p
 
knock said:
Do fossilised humans have any say about their bones being dug up and analysed by archaeologists? Should they? What difference does 20,000 years make if you're dead?
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The question of ethics with regard to exhuming human remains is quite the big issue among the archaeological community, as it happens. All the more so in recent times, where you would've expected a trend toward a coldly 'rational' approach.

If a dig happens to occur on a site where the locals worship their ancestors, who is the archaeologist (almost invariably from the 'developed world') to tell the natives that their long-cherished beliefs are totally 'irrational' and the province of ignorant, backward bushmen?

I imagine there'd be one or two contributors to the forum who would sympathise with the natives on this occasion. As you rightly point out, it ain't cut-and-dried.

StoneHappyMonday said:
I don't see me advocating Stalinism in that sentence Mysh so, er, fuck off eh?
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Not quite, but you're appointing yourself the arbiter of what's 'rational'. I'm sure Uncle Joe thought he was the most rational cat in Georgia back in the day.

StoneHappyMonday said:
Chill Winston. Is it coz I slagged Nico or stuck up for Farmaz btw? :p
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It's because I'm a horrible guy.
 
Most graveyards in the UK are routinely dug over every 150 years or so. Never mind 20000. Nobody bats an eyelid.
 
Myshkin said:
The question of ethics with regard to exhuming human remains is quite the big issue among the archaeological community, as it happens. All the more so in recent times, where you would've expected a trend toward a coldly 'rational' approach.

If a dig happens to occur on a site where the locals worship their ancestors, who is the archaeologist (almost invariably from the 'developed world') to tell the natives that their long-cherished beliefs are totally 'irrational' and the province of ignorant, backward bushmen?

I imagine there'd be one or two contributors to the forum who would sympathise with the natives on this occasion. As you rightly point out, it ain't cut-and-dried.
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They're digging up some cunts granny just to have a wee look at her bones, maybe stick them in a museum & charge folk to look at them. They're not saving anyone's life with auld betty's left shin. If there was someone dying & digging up a 2000 year old grave would likely save their life then I'd say fuck the natives, bring in the shovels.
 
parttime crackhead said:
They're digging up some cunts granny just to have a wee look at her bones, maybe stick them in a museum & charge folk to look at them.
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I'm sure that the Confederation of Bone-nosed People Eaters in New Guinea issues its members with free museum passes as a matter of course.

Why didn't I think of that? Stupid, brown, flesh-eating savages, one and all...
 
Myshkin said:
Is state tyranny all well and good when it's all for a 'good cause'? :)
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You have a point Myshkin.

How about assumed consent of having the police enter our homes in the interests of public safety? Assumed consent for all sorts of things is a bit worrying. we may be dead but the bodies still belong to someone, not the state. Or do they?

I can't tell you about Never Let me Go Bearlove as it kind of ruins the story for those that haven't read it. Its critically and literary acclaimed, I recommend it if you're a reader.
 
badandwicked said:
You have a point Myshkin.

How about assumed consent of having the police enter our homes in the interests of public safety?
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They already have that right.

This is, or should be, a necessary debate about public health. Government ministers won't be chopping your retina out, Health professionals will. In order to benefit....you. Not Stalinism. And you can opt-out. You CAN be an absolute selfish cunt and tick a box on a form to stop the advancing hordes of Orwellian tyranny.

But ticking a box is hard work eh? Requires some action on our part as opposed to being passive, selfish, lazy fucks. The sort of passive selfish lazy fucks that have got us into an organ donation crisis in the first place.
 
I do not believe there is any valid reason for refusing to donate your organs after death. It is simply an act of mean-spiritedness from beyond the grave. Living people have rights; pieces of meat do not. To burn or bury a resource that potentially could have saved one or more human lives life is simply obscene.

If they are going to ask the relatives of the deceased for consent to reuse organs, then they should ask them right in front of someone who is dying for want of an organ transplant; so they can see for themselves exactly what it will really mean if they say no.

At the very least, if anybody does opt out from donating their organs, then in the name of fairness they should automatically be barred from receiving a transplant. Don't dish out what you can't take, and all that.

This is not about "the state owning your body", even although they may have mostly left you alone while you were alive (apart from the help they gave you e.g. roads, sanitation, education, healthcare, security and so forth). This is about doing the right thing by other human beings, by allowing them the chance to make use of something that you no longer need.
 
It's one thing to tell people (probably quite rightly) that they are being selfish and irrational. It's another thing to ignore their wishes and go ahead because you know you're right. The missing link is some sort of involvement.
 
People are, and always will be selfish and irrational. So fucking what? Personally, I will not mind giving my organs to the living, after I die, but aren't there some rare fits with organs such as with bloodtypes?
I could easily imagine someone going half-insane from a dying loved one and faking an accident just to get someone killed, organs saved. Extreme, but it could happen. Now, murder takes time to prove, and everyone is innocent until it's decided otherwise. Doctors wouldn't sit around and wait for another meaningless death, would they? Reminds me of Crime and Punishment, while we're at it...
 
Fuck. What was I doing on bluelight yesterday...too many drama series for me. A good laugh and a facepalm, at least.
 
I don't buy the "doctors would kill patients for their organs" line. Already, if someone who has had cancer dies of anything else but cancer, they are deemed to have "survived cancer". Even if they're riddled with it, if cancer isn't what killed them, officially they are a survivor. You don't see anyone bumping off patients to boost their survival rates, do you? Why is it likely to be any different with transplant patients?

Anyway, there are more than enough people dying every day with usable organs, no need to add to the pile. You might as well forge 10p pieces by filing down fifties.
 
They can have whatever organs they want, then i want to be cremated, and my ashes placed into a giant (like fucking massive) firework and shot into the sky over my favourite beach.......

I don't know if my hips would cremate, might be dodgy having chunks of metal falling out the sky.
 
You are all kidding yourselves if you think anyone is going to want any of *our* organs when we die...

Seriously though - why would you give a fuck? It is not like they are going to use your corpse for evil empire ends. They'll give your heart or whatever to someone who will die if they don't have it.

Pity the poor sod who gets my liver...
 
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