Opioids Opiates dont seem addictive to me- addictive potential exaggerated?

[cybergenesis]

Hi I've been using opiates for about a year now and the one thing that strikes me is that they do NOT in the slightest seem addictive to me. Now I am not stupid, I know you can get physical withdrawal symptoms if you take them day after day after day, but I don't do them like that, I just take one dose from time to time, and never want any more.

I used to be an alcoholic, and also a very heavy smoker. You would assume I have an additive personality, but getting into opiates I haven't run into any trouble at all, I would go as far as to say that my experience has been the opiates are the most benign drug type I have ever tried, to me taking opiates is less significant than smoking pot (pot screws with my head).

Now I know if you inject opiates etc, that well your asking for addiction. But I just swallow them. They don't even make me euphoric, they just make me relaxed and reduce tension, which is why I like them.

I tried 120mg of oxycodone the other day (crushed and swallowed it as usual), it just made me fairly relaxed, but I definitely felt far from overwhelmed. I feel totally in control on opiates, unlike other drugs. I would not hesitate to say take 120mg oxycodone then say go to a family dinner, nobody would even know I am on them because they don't effect me very much, they just mellow me out, make me placid and relaxed.

What I want to know are my experiences normal? I never get any compulsion to use them, and once i have taken them i never want more. I know if I did them everyday I would be in trouble, but as i said i dont do them like this. I don't feel any threat of addiction whatsoever. I've done benzos etc now THEY are addictive drugs, I have to say that when used sensibly i think the addictive potentate of opiates is exaggerated. . I don't mean to piss anyone off, but it seems to me that the reason most people become addicted is from grossly irresponsible, uneducated and dangerous usage practices (ie injecting, doing it every day etc, doing street heroin etc)...

Any thoughts?

 

[pallidamors]

^So taking them daily if prescribed by a doctor means that the patient is irresponsible.

I think you do more opiates than you are letting on if you took 120 mg oxycodone and felt "far from overwhelmed". Opiates do make you feel as if you're in control, which is part of their insidious nature; they become easy to work into one's daily routine. Good for you if you don't believe they're compulsive by nature, and they certainly aren't compulsive in the sense that coke or stimulants are. But just because you don't feel that theyre addictive (to you) doesn't mean that other people are going to respond in the same way. To be honest you really come off as ignorant by assuming that just because you can control your usage (at least for a while), then the addictive potential of opiates in general is "overrated".

 

[JerZfirE]

You dont seem to do them often enough to become addicted. Being in "total control" while on opiates/opioids is normal. The effects are what is exaggerated sometimes. You also totally contradict yourself by saying if you did them every day, or you IV them, that you WOULD become addicted. Your post is entirely rediculous and doesnt make any sense at all.

ALSO, this will probably piss alot of addicts off (including myself) saying that opiates arent addictive unless you are "GROSSLY irresponsible." Pull your head out of your ass and dont post bullshit on this excellent site.

 

[izzy66]

you dont seem to do them often enough to become addicted. Being in "total control" while on opiates/opioids is normal. The effects are what is exaggerated sometimes. You also totally contradict yourself by saying if you did them every day, or you iv them, that you would become addicted. Your post is entirely rediculous and doesnt make any sense at all.

Also, this will probably piss alot of addicts off (including myself) saying that opiates arent addictive unless you are "grossly irresponsible." pull your head out of your ass and dont post bullshit on this excellent site. :x



im now gonna go be grossly irresponsible and dose again because i need to.

^^ lmao

 

[pallidamors]

This thread might be better off in BDD, also...

 

[Nibiru]

I think that, as potentially physiologically addictive as opiates are, some people simply don't psychologically reinforce to them easily. I've used an amount of opiates that could likely fill an average bathroom if represented as a brick of raw opium in the past seven or so years, and have had two withdrawls, which although they weren't severe, were well shitty enough to teach me a lesson. Opiates have a long half-life generally, and so stay in the system for a while, so it's good to practice self-restraint, and take them less often than every other day.

Really, though, I found their physiological drawbacks like occasional hangovers, possible dependence, constipation, all of that to be annoying enough to not make me want to use them too much, and the high from them was not interesting enough to me to cause habituation. I enjoyed them, used them a lot, and had them around quite a bit, but saw no reason to take them enough to get addicted to them. Probably because i had lots of other things around that I liked better, and partly because my favourite drugs were and still are psychedelics, which are a different sort of story than opiates entirely.

I wouldn't say the addictive potential is overrated or overblown, indeed I have enough friends and family that are complete junkies to know that it's not, but to some people who are predisposed to other types of addiction and/or drug use, they really are not all that addictive. The physiological potential exists in everyone, but the psychological potential not so, and I think both are vital to a person developing addiction.

 

[OntarioGuy]

<SNIP> I'm gonna Laugh when He comes back to us Crying cuz he's in the Depths of Withdrawal

No need for that. djsim

 

[burn out]

1) different people find different drugs addictive. some people here would say that they don't find alcohol very addictive but you (the original poster) said you were an alcoholic. so individual differences come into play here.

2) drug addiction often sneaks up on you. the drug doesn't seem addictive at first, leading you into a false sense of security.

 

[dieselbaby]

xxx i'm gonna laugh when he comes back to us crying cuz he's in the depths of withdrawal

+1...

 

[cybergenesis]

+1...

Well I think you guys are the arseholes, I stated my experience and observations in a calm and friendly manner, not attacking any individual but you guys are attacking me. Please have the basic intelligence to provide valid points as to why you disagree with my views instead of all the hostility and attacks upon my person. (This is not directed to the people above that were not rude in their responses- thankyou)

So you guys are saying that people who become addicted are blameless? That taking huge doses of opiates day after day (as opposed to using them occasionally) should not be considered a valid argument as to why people become addicted?

What I was trying to say that is I think their is a strong behavioral / attitude element regarding addiction potential, it seems to me this is equally the case as is the generally addictiveness of these substances. It annoys me that opiates are portrayed as being so horrendously addictive, when this contradicts my experience. I am NOT saying that physical withdrawal is not horrendous ONCE you become addicted, I am talking about getting addicted in the first place. I am not making moral judgments to people who are addicted. If I had access to plenty of opiates when I was younger I would almost certainly have gobbled them up and become addicted. I am not saying people who become addicted are losers or anything, I myself have suffered from addiction to other substances. I was saying that the media and other elements seem to portray opiates as worst drugs than I have found them to be. And yes if someone decided to whack up heroin for 3 weeks in a row then it is sort of predictable that they are going to get withdrawal symptoms, but I am not making value judgments as to what sort of person they were in the first place to do this.

I'd like to say that people who are addicted to opiates for medical reasons, that I was not directing any of my comments towards them. Obviously in such cases it is probably a necessary evil to become addicted.

As for my using opiates more than I have stated- this is not true. I am just a person who seems able to tolerate large doses of opiates, I am a fairly large guy etc. Someone said they "hope" i get addicted, this is certainly not a very civil thing to say. I certainly have not demonstrated that I "hope" that any person gets addicted, I think this demonstrates the commentator is sadistic. Maybe I will someday become addicted (though I doubt it), if I do then of course I will face the same problems as any other person addicted to opiates.

Again I cannot see how people could interpret my comments as hostile, yet I was met with hostility. This is a discussion forum, and even if my views are not correct, isn't the best way to correct my views by discussing things in a calm and respectful manner?

EDIT: You people seem to think I have some sense of lack of empathy for people addicted to opiates, this is not true at all. I feel very sorry for anyone addicted to them, and I like opiate users much more than I like users of other groups of drugs, such as amphetamines.

 

[pallidamors]

^I'd agree with you that the dangers of opiate use do seem to be exaggerated, but I don't think you can really downplay the addictive potential. Just because you seem to have less of a psychological propensity for addictive behavior doesn't mean that this is true for all people. This is what I was getting at. You stated your views in a rational manner, but I just think that the crux of your argument is based on flawed logic. You can't extrapolate your personal experience to all people.

 

[cybergenesis]

^I'd agree with you that the dangers of opiate use do seem to be exaggerated, but I don't think you can really downplay the addictive potential. Just because you seem to have less of a psychological propensity for addictive behavior doesn't mean that this is true for all people. This is what I was getting at. You stated your views in a rational manner, but I just think that the crux of your argument is based on flawed logic. You can't extrapolate your personal experience to all people.

Nah thanks for your feedback. I guess part of the reason I wrote my initial post the way I did was to prompt a bit of discussion. I guess I have always been able to understand that no everybody may be as fortunate as myself in regards to "not having an excessive disposition" towards opiate addiction. For example with my prior problems with alcohol, I understand that some people are quite able to moderate their drinking habits, and would not understand how someone such as myself could have become an alcoholic, so I guess I angled my post to prompt discussion that would give me the sort of viewpoints that would expand my understanding.

Thinking on it usually the words grossly irresponsible was to strong, so I do apologize for that I was over-emphasizing my point.

What I meant was that surely behavioral and educational factors come in to play with the risk for addiction to opiates. Here is a theoretical example.

Imagine say a 15 year old girl. She doesn't know ANYTHING about opiates, never even really heard about them before, and does not have an understanding of the concept of addiction. Now lets say her friend offers her some oxycodone one day. She likes it, it made her feel good. The next day her friend offers her some more, and gives her enough for a several days. She keeps doing them day after day cause they make her feel good. She runs out, goes back to her friend and wants to do more. Next thing she is addicted.

Was she addicted because opiates are such evil addictive drugs or because she didn't have a sufficient understanding of the situation to avoid avoid addiction in the first place? Because she didn't understand that opiates are not drugs you should do day after day, but more occasionally. Because she didn't understand that after several days of continual usage you can develop physical tolerance. You could also argue that teenagers, and some other people have such poor self control, that you just know they will end up addicted. Some people are vulnerable to addiction to anything.

Such a person as this girl, who might not understand anything about opiates might be more likely to overdose also because she doesn't possess knowledge of the dangers. She might try some benzos with them, having no idea this is dangerous, or she might take too much not really understanding that she may potentially overdose. So what I was saying is that an element of the risk of addiction is surely related to knowledge / education. People emphasize knowledge is important to avoid people overdosing, people on here always warn for example about combining benzos and opiates... But I would also think that emphasizing knowledge to avoid addiction would be useful. People say addiction in basically inevitable, I was just wondering if that really is the case. Sure maybe it is when it comes to say injecting heroin, then again perhaps not.

I do think some opiates users are irresponsible though, but NO MORE than any other group of people.. Comeon we have irresponsible people in all walks or life. I would only want to encourage people that opiates are NOT the sort of drug you want to be reckless with. Just like some people hoon around in their cars and use cars irresponsibly, some people probably hoon around with their opiate usage, too arrogant to think they will get trapped. Teenagers especially. I am not saying this is the majority of users. But we shouldn't ban cars because some people can't be trusted to drive. We shouldn't ban opiates because some people use them in a bad fashion. What I am really getting at is I am pissed off they are not legal. I think they should be legal, absolutely.

I personally treat opiates with great respect, I researched a great deal of information before getting into them, and I think this and my caution towards them is why I haven't got in trouble with them.

Oh one other thing:

People please don't get all abusive to me because you don't agree with what I am saying, I am not being nasty in the way I am wording things. What is that quote, something like "I may totally disagree with what you say, but would defend with my life your right to say it.". People that speak to me in a rational manner and make valid points can change what I actually think, cause I am open to being corrected by people with valid points.

 

[Eight0Eight]

The potential for addiction with opiates is certainly not exaggerated, if anything its under-estimated.

Keep playing with fire, then see how badly it will burn you...

 

[cybergenesis]

The potential for addiction with opiates is certainly not exaggerated, if anything its under-estimated.

Keep playing with fire, then see how badly it will burn you...

I'm thinking it depends on the situation. For example I view injecting heroin as the most addictive opiate situation you can get yourself into. Of course as people have pointed out I could be naive and in a couple of years come crawling back to this community begging for help with my chronic addiction (much to the great satisfaction of certain members I suspect).

I think besides the IV factor in heroin, and perhaps because heroin is more addictive than other opiates, well I think it might also be related to the impurity. You can control your dosage precisely. So you get this constant yo-yo effect with your usage patterns and the level in your blood. I don't know I would try heroin but only medical grade diamorphine. Yes if someone offered me that, I would probably inject it. So thankfully I have not been offered that, otherwise I would probably end up in the addiction side of things.

But I only swallow opiates, and only occasionally. NEVER more than twice in a week and NEVER two days in a row, and twice in a week is rare. What I would like to figure out from this topic, is that if the usage i just mentioned is really that risky at all.

 

[Binge Artist]

But I only swallow opiates, and only occasionally. NEVER more than twice in a week and NEVER two days in a row, and twice in a week is rare. What I would like to figure out from this topic, is that if the usage i just mentioned is really that risky at all.

Theoretically, if you did this, you would never become dependant on opiates.

Good luck!

 

[Tchort]

Opioids effect different people in extremely different ways.

I'd be willing to guess that a majority of opioid users who developed dependany and addiction believed they were in control of their use, or still believe they are in control. But this is certainly subjective- I thought I had given up control after a certain point, but my own view of my habit vs that of people around me who were in, my opinion, much less control than I was and yet they still believed it was completely under their control.

Addictive potential of the class is beyond dispute. Morphine/Opium is the archetype for addiction, what humanity across cultural, racial, socioeconomic lines recognizes as the basis for what is known and believed about addiction. But not everyone who uses opioids, or a particular opioid, will become dependant and addicted. Dr. Dole, cofounder of MMT and a father figure of the modern metabolic theory of addiction, believed that approx. 1 in 50 people who tried Heroin would pursue the drug to dependancy and addiction. Then there are plenty of people who don't like any but one particular opioid, or like them all except one or two, and so on. Meperidine, Ketobemidone, Dextromoramide, Piritramide, Methadone, etc have their own brand-loyal cult following (which is particularly apparent with Heroin-only users, Oxycodone-only users, etc).

but it seems to me that the reason most people become addicted is from grossly irresponsible, uneducated and dangerous usage practices (ie injecting, doing it every day etc, doing street heroin etc)...

This is the statement I have the biggest problem with. Without going on a rant, I will just say that in my experience, this is a 'addiction denialism' fantasy that takes the true horror and humanity out of addiction, and makes it into something that is easier to understand, easier to ignore. A good example of this way of thinking is the old theory of addiction, the moral theory. Up until the 1960's, the medical establishment believed drug use and addiction was caused by and a symptom of immorality. With the criminalization of alcohol and narcotics in the first decades of the 20th century, the US based its penal code and medical treatment based on this false philosophy. By the 1930s and '40s, psychiatrists and psychologists entered the fray using technical jargon like 'Antisocial personality', 'Schizotypal with paranoid features', 'psychotic' to describe anyone who experiments with, uses recreationally or becomes addicted to any drug. Shock therapy, brain surgery, insulin shock, all manner of ridiculous injections of dangerous chemicals (keep in mind this was a time when homosexuals were being experimented upon and demonized in a similar manner).

Wealthy, well educated white people make up the majority of drug users and addicts in the industrialized West. The most common Heroin user in the US is a white male of middle class background between 34-55 years old.

So this statement you've made is not only incorrect, it is dangerous, and it is depressing that 50 years after the medical establishment first began to prove the metabolic theory of addiction and disprove the moral theory, this kind of thinking is still around. Who knows how many hundreds of thousands were tortured and abused in the name of medicine and 'good society' or 'law & order', and continue to be treated as such despite evidence that it is morally and medically wrong to do so (for example: disproportionate prison sentances for low income non-white drug users, forced cold turkey withdrawal with no or minimal access to medical treatment, professional stigma in the health care industry itself, etc).

 

[JerZfirE]

So you guys are saying that people who become addicted are blameless? That taking huge doses of opiates day after day (as opposed to using them occasionally) should not be considered a valid argument as to why people become addicted?

Actually, it used to take me a whole entire day to do a bag of dope. 1/10 of a gram.

You dont have to take "huge" doses to become addicted. Im addicted

to dope, and I still dont use huge amounts of the shit.

 

[xxkcxx]

EDIT: You people seem to think I have some sense of lack of empathy for people addicted to opiates, this is not true at all. I feel very sorry for anyone addicted to them, and I like opiate users much more than I like users of other groups of drugs, such as amphetamines.

Sorry. That's nice of you and all, but this heroin addict doesn't need your pity

 

[chester mcgruder]

Some of seem like you are trying to justify your own addiction by telling the OP that opiates are super addictive. Every one has different body chemistry. I know plenty of people thta have done OCs daily. Only a couple of them weren't able to stop when they either wanted to or supply dried up. I take opiates when I get the opportunity, but that doesn't happen more than couple times per year., so I can't speak from personal experience here. I can say that I make my own beer, so I have an almost constant supply. I drink about 3 16oz glasses of 6%-9% per day. when I go away for a few days, or just don't feel like drinking I don't feels any ill effects. Some people would pysilogically not be able to do this, and some can. Ultimaytely it is up to the individual to assess their own tolerances. We all can share our experiences, but it doesn't mean your body will react the same as mine. Good luck and keep an eye out for addiction. Be honest with yourself, it will help a lot.

 

[chester mcgruder]

Tchort, you may not like the statement the OP made, but how can you say its not true? Excluding prescribed medical situations, how can becoming a heroin addict not be grossly irresponsible? Using an addictive drug to the point of physical dependence just for fun seems like the very definition of irresponsible. It doesn' matter who does it, or even if they can maintain their life. It is needlessly risking the destruction of your life simply to feel good in the short-term. I am not saying its wrong or anything. Many people do dangerous things, but it is still irresponsible. If you jump out of a plane enough times, evemtually your chute won't open one time.