mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
i dont know marmalade. I tend to lack any ideas, energy, or any initiative at all when im in opiate w/d.
I'll look into that Inflorenscence.
I'll look into that Inflorenscence.
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Opiate and opioid withdrawal: Coping strategies and medication
- Thread starter knock
- Start date
So what's the logical conclusion or direction to take from that admission?
foolsgold
Bluelighter
yes thats what i am looking into at the minute just waiting on the doctor to get back to me on it
Inflorescence
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2013
- Messages
- 2,513
I mean it's pretty much the below with extra columns for substance used prior to that days diary entry and what you crave..looking at the triggers etc.
http://www.livingcbt.com/forms/thought_diary.pdf
Self evaluation-cause and effect/breaking cycles patterns. Sometimes you know what why and where but to see if evidenced on paper I truly believe is worth a whirl.
http://www.livingcbt.com/forms/thought_diary.pdf
Self evaluation-cause and effect/breaking cycles patterns. Sometimes you know what why and where but to see if evidenced on paper I truly believe is worth a whirl.
foolsgold
Bluelighter
got told its what i need as ive been self medicating for so long
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
Yep. You know your own sticking points, so unless you preplan a strategy to overcome them in advance, you're just leaving it up to chance and random circumstances to do the work for you. And you know that wont happen.
Explain this exact problem to your keyworkers, councilors and as inflo points out - CBT gives you the format to do that if you can't muster the enthusiasm yourself, or if you don't yet understand how to dissect yourself (and mustering enthusiasm is hard at the best of times, let alone when you're missing out on your favourite hobby, as well as feeling the physical withdrawals from it.). Jancrow used it and he said it helped straighten his thinking processes out fantastically
knock
Bluelighter
It's a fair point well made. I do understand that brimz. And maybe I'm being really insensitive. It wouldn't be the first time. It's a difficult thing to talk about freely without hitting a nerve somewhere though.
No-one wants to belittle the fact that you lost your ex-partner. I suppose the fact that MDB's problems are getting discussed, while "more serious" problems are not, seems a bit ridiculous. Thing is some problems are easier to talk about, so they get discussed.
My big brother is slowly dying from Multiple Sclerosis. It tears me up that whenever I see him he's got a bit worse. He can't take a step without a walking stick, and if you blow on him he'll fall over. I know this isn't an MS discussion forum, but it is time spent discussing stuff that doesn't help my brother. And I think the way you're talking could easily be stretched to the idea that I should stop discussing drug problems on here and go and help my brother instead.
But I don't think it's as straightforward as that, I've got my own problems to deal with, he's very lucky to have a wonderful wife who loves him and cares for him, and he's got two lovely kids he can be proud of. I haven't. I could run a mile, and he can't walk 50 yards, but he gets to see his kids grow up, and I don't get to watch mine grow up, though I'm proud of my nephew and niece and I get to enjoy being an uncle, so it's not all bad. And actually I do help him out quite a lot, with computers and phones and when I visit he's always got a list of odd jobs for me to do, and when he visits up here I am his chauffeur. I wish I could help him out more, but he fucked off to Norwich in the 90s, and my elderly parents are up here, I'm their only child who's in a position to help them with anything, so I can't fuck off and leave them to fend for themselves while I go and help my brother. Well, I could, but it wouldn't be very nice.
My point is, my problems are my problems and me addressing my problems is not belittling his problems. Similarly, MDB's problems are his problems and him discussing them on here and getting help is not a slight on other people's problems.
I wasn't saying that your situation is comparable to Mugz, I wasn't saying "here's MDB going the same way as mugz". I don't think that either! I am just reminded of my own behaviour towards him, for a long time I just kept plodding on with him and trying, like others did, to encourage him when he was looking for help and trying to get him to cut down his drug use. But I reached a point where I got fed up with his behaviour and I called him "attention-seeking". I can't remember for sure if there was an EADD-wide shift in attitude to his extreme levels of drug use and combos, there probably was a bit, I know for sure that I did have a change of attitude and was less tolerant of what seemed like never-ending relapses. That's all. I was talking about my and the board's attitude to people's problems. I wasn't comparing you with mugz.
I'm not sure whether you have also read what I said to be comparing MDB to Mugz. If you are, I wasn't.
I need to work on being clearer. It all looks pretty clear while I'm writing it out but the responses I get indicate it is not :D
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Inflorescence
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2013
- Messages
- 2,513
Yay Knock awake and lucid. Well put. I know I have only been ere 5 mins in the scheme of things but Brimz do you need to talk more about how yer feeling about the death of your ex-partner? It's on your mind clearly..to someone here or openly whatever. That is fucking horrific.
Knock so sorry to hear about your brother. My oldest friend is 44 and in same boat..my godaughters are 12 and 8 and are basically here carers..she lives so far away. She has people and I visit as much as I can, I have to admit I dread visits selfishly as they heartbreaking that I am always over cheerful and it all seems false and grr.
I personally think we all need to get stuff of our chests,,if it helps MDB then great...if it winds others up what do you do-confront or ignore..tis tricky with emotions, comedowns, highs..real life shit and the stuff people wouldn't even put here.I feel so sad that so many of us are fighting our demons and in so much inner turmoil and hurt...off to have a whiskey to steady my nerves. Totally in-eloquent post but I hope you get the message in true Beauty pagent BL space cadet style I just want us all to be given a break, world peace and futures (with happiness).
Knock so sorry to hear about your brother. My oldest friend is 44 and in same boat..my godaughters are 12 and 8 and are basically here carers..she lives so far away. She has people and I visit as much as I can, I have to admit I dread visits selfishly as they heartbreaking that I am always over cheerful and it all seems false and grr.
I personally think we all need to get stuff of our chests,,if it helps MDB then great...if it winds others up what do you do-confront or ignore..tis tricky with emotions, comedowns, highs..real life shit and the stuff people wouldn't even put here.I feel so sad that so many of us are fighting our demons and in so much inner turmoil and hurt...off to have a whiskey to steady my nerves. Totally in-eloquent post but I hope you get the message in true Beauty pagent BL space cadet style I just want us all to be given a break, world peace and futures (with happiness).
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Knock, he may well have been experimenting with ODT and pods prior to the AH-7921, but he didn't have a physical habit. This is documented in posts from the time, which I'm not going to drag up, out of respect for MDB. This is what Kenny's getting at.
As for the part about taking opioids to relieve mental health problems, MDB's own posts demonstrate the fact that the professionals working with him believe he needs to work on his drug issues before any valuable diagnosis / treatment can be made (that's the way it works - I know all too well) and in the meantime are offering counselling (which he appears to be utilising well) and antidepressants, which he is taking irregularly and combining with non-prescription drugs, some of which no doubt negate the antidepressant's impact.
MDB's self-prescribing is leading him into a world of trouble. Worse still, it's wreaking havoc with his mental state. The apathy and lack of inspiration he describes are typical effects of too many drugs. The 'cure' is the fucking disease!
Do you see where Kenny's coming from? I know you don't mean to advocate MDB's drug as such, but it can appear ambiguous at times.
knock
Bluelighter
experimenting with pods? MDB reported taking quantities of poppy pods that would probably kill me. And he ate the pod straw after drinking his brew. I'm afraid I will need to go back to those posts to understand what you're saying because the impression I had is that MDB certainly had a level of opiate/opioid tolerance that is not consistent with not having a "physical habit".
I'm not doing it now though, I've slept for one hour tonight and I need another couple of hours...
Yes it makes complete sense that the professionals he's working with want him to be free of drugs before they can tackle his mental health issues. I'm aware of that and I'm not arguing any different. The reason I mentioned that is Kenny said:
kenny said:
I was responding to that. I was highlighting that MDB has told us what he thinks his reasons are for using opis, and it's a fair enough reason, albeit a dangerous path to go down. It was not "inventing problems" it was "self medicating". I am not arguing in favour of self medication, though I've done it myself and I can fully understand the attraction because getting treatment for mental health problems can be a bit like getting blood from a stone, I know from my own experience.
I am not trying to encourage it I am just pointing out what I see as a sort of major flaw in Kenny's tirade against MDB.
The self-prescribed 'cure' is certainly not sustainable but if we are to believe MDB, and we have no reason not to, there is another pre-existing disease or condition.
Well maybe it appears ambiguous, but I wrote my post for a specific reason, and it wasn't to provide a full summary of my view of his situation. If all my posts contained full statements of my understanding of an issue from all the various angles, they would be a hell of a lot longer than they are, and that is frequently too long as it stands
So I can see where kenny's coming from, yes, and I'm currently under the impression that it's a false premise.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Tolerance varies wildly from person to person, as does the way they metabolise opioids. Especially the ones in pods. Not to mention the alkaloids in pods themselves.
High pod tolerance does not an addict make. Ask Issy.
Here's a thread where MDB clearly states he isn't addicted. Delete as necessary: *deleted*
It ain't pretty, but he declares MDPV to be his only real problem. Benzos possibly figured heavily.
knock said:
Maybe so, but as you've said yourself, the drugs need to go before that's established. And not by MDB, by professionals.
I get a bee in my bonnet about the 'doctors = bad, drugs = good' mentality I find here sometimes. I apologise if you got caught up in that.
I still believe Kenny has a point, however.
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Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
Awh I 'm so terribly sorry, Brimz xxxx
You know that we are here for you too, right? Anytime you want to talk we are here for you too.
Knock , I'm so terribly sorry to hear that your brother has MS.
To think I was crying yesterday cause I wasn't chosen as a mod - all this puts things into perspective.
MDB - I never knew Mugz so I can't really make a comment on whether you are like he was / were the same road as he went but what I can say is that you have a lot of people who care about you n are worried about you n just want to help. If someone has implied that they think they are going the same way (sorry haven't read all the posts here) then it is only through concern for you n sometimes people use tough love like shock tactics. Please don't get upset over it but try to think through why they have said this sort of thing to you. I find this stuff hard to do too n often think someone is saying something offencive when they are only concerned n wish to try n help in some way.
Evey xxxx
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Shambles
Bluelight Crew
I don't think I've ever been offered CBT specifically for withdrawals or drug issues in general, but I have been referred to CBT a few times for depression which CBT person tends to say is essentially untreatable until/unless the drug issues are addressed. Don't recall there being any specifically tailored help with drug issues from general CBT sessions but it is an approach used by some addiction support organisations. Picked up a leaflet for this one at my DSP clinic just last week which some may find of use and/or interest: SMART Recovery. I only know what I read in the leaflet but they do mention they use CBT alongside other techniques. They have online support services too (details somewhere within the linky) for those who don't have a physical branch within easy reach. I've not come across them before and have never tried their services so would be good to hear from anybody who has as it looks to be quite a different approach to addiction treatment and support I've had in the past.
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
Thanks for bringing that embarassing thread up Sam, it was too embarrasing to read past post number 1. Its kind of besides the point as to whether or not i was addicted to pods 2 years or go or not anyway ? As others and myself have said many CBT workers dont believe the true underlying issues can be addressed whilst drug use continues. The ironic thing is that CBT could help in stopping to use drugs. The group i did attend for a few months was SMART, it was for people struggling to stop using, people who were on various stages of taper, and people who had stopped using, in order to support them in staying clean. I am going to start re-attending this group.
Unfortunately, when i last went there was a pool of about 10 of us, and about 6 of the 10 would turn up every week. Currently they seem to be struggling to get a new group or get the old group back together, Im not sure if this is because the old CBT group facilitator/peer mentor who was pretty good has left, and the new people need to establish themselves, or if the old group of atendees has either started using again or been cured. It discusses things like long term vs short term thinking, and the more the facilitator gets to know you, the more firmly they challenge what they call 'faulty thinking'. In other words any desire to continue using drugs is seen as faulty thinking.
Doesnt any opiate addict create their own addiction, by taking opiates too often, or finding it hard to stop taking them ?
Unfortunately, when i last went there was a pool of about 10 of us, and about 6 of the 10 would turn up every week. Currently they seem to be struggling to get a new group or get the old group back together, Im not sure if this is because the old CBT group facilitator/peer mentor who was pretty good has left, and the new people need to establish themselves, or if the old group of atendees has either started using again or been cured. It discusses things like long term vs short term thinking, and the more the facilitator gets to know you, the more firmly they challenge what they call 'faulty thinking'. In other words any desire to continue using drugs is seen as faulty thinking.
Doesnt any opiate addict create their own addiction, by taking opiates too often, or finding it hard to stop taking them ?
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Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Sorry, I only posted it in response to Knock, who was under the wrong impression. I asked him to delete it when he'd read it but it must've been missed.
I'll get rid, as it's not fair at all.
knock
Bluelighter
Yes because MDB hadn't had any poppies that day.
And I've only just read that because I'm only just logging on to the forum. If things don't get done immediately, sometimes it's because I'm having a shit or something.
In this case I was in bed. Earlier than usual. It's gradually improving.
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
its ok, was just a bit embarrasing thats all. No problem now its gone.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
No, he explicitly declares that he's 'booted' poppies. As well as AH7921. And clearly states he isn't addicted to anything.
And I've only just read that because I'm only just logging on to the forum. If things don't get done immediately, sometimes it's because I'm having a shit or something.
Calm down, calm down! I wasn't having a go! 8(
Just informing MDB why it was still there. It was lame of me to post the thread, but it was FYI. I should maybe have sent a PM.
its ok, was just a bit embarrasing thats all. No problem now its gone.
Glad you're okay with it. You've come a long way from there, that's for sure!
knock
Bluelighter
Yeah sorry about the embarrassment. It's annoying arguing over things like this, and having to bring up the past, but I remember things differently to how Sam remembers them, and if he read just a little bit more carefully then maybe he would too
Sam, again, it's embarrassing for MDB having this dredged up, we're both aware of that, but he booted poppies "yesterday" in that thread. Sure. Addiction over! the effects of poppies last for about a day. Plus it's ironic you choose a quote where in such a terrible state mentally to backup your version of history.
Sam, again, it's embarrassing for MDB having this dredged up, we're both aware of that, but he booted poppies "yesterday" in that thread. Sure. Addiction over! the effects of poppies last for about a day. Plus it's ironic you choose a quote where in such a terrible state mentally to backup your version of history.