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On the Demonisation of Methamphetamine on Bluelight

Yeah I'll be dying of obesity at 600lbs
Sounds like someone needed a prescription for some Desoxyn… ;) (meth logic, aka: there's a methyl to my madness)

Chill out, guys. It's not that serious. And believe it or not, plenty of people are in fact capable of being functional meth users. No, it's not for everyone, for sure. But it's also not a blanket statement "bad drug". It's close-minded to paint the world so black-and-white just because you didn't like the drug. Why is it so common for people to shit all over things they don't understand?
Your very own personal revered chains.
Why the hostility? Did I do something to you?
 
Somebody a few days ago pointed out that I myself post a lot of stuff advising people not to do meth but am complaining about other people basically doing the same thing and asked for an explanation of my motivations. I apologise because I forget who it was and don't have time to re-read the whole thread. It might have been @bongdong I think.

Firstly, my main motivation is as a staff member committed to what I understand to be the guiding principles of BL. Regardless of my own personal tastes or phobias regarding drugs I believe that claims on the positive or negative aspects of drug use should be backed up by a reasonable amount of experience and/or some kind of credible third party reference. However, such posts should not be probitionist or unecessarily fear mongering in nature. BL accepts that people engage in an inherently dangerous pastime and exists to guide those people towards safer use in the first instance. We DO NOT exist to bring people to sobriety unless that is what they have already decided what they want in their lives and have specifically asked for help with. In which case we have The Recovery Forums which have outstanding resources on getting clean and sober.

For example I personally loathe opiates and my very first experience of heroin was an OD where I woke up very ill in the ER. Almost all drug-related crime I have suffered or witnessed involved heroin addicts or drunk people. The only people I know who have died from drugs were heroin addicts, benzo addicts and alcoholics. But I have minimal technical knowledge about those drugs, have never had to 'recover' from them, and little appreciation for how good they can feel. So I pretty much have nothing much to say about them on BL (except for what just wrote)

In an ideally moderated world we'd have at least three clear divisions. The Drug Forums: where everything is fact-based and judgement-free harm minimisation advice given eqaully for all substances. The Recovery Forums: where drugs are treated as not-good and problematic and help is given to remove them from people's lives. The Community Forums (particularly Drug Culture and the Lounge as well as the social forums in MDMA and Psychadelics at least) where celebrating your love of drugs and posting while high is accepted and supported not just merely tolerated.

I have asked Management and my fellow moderators on several occasions to consider a special stim sub-forum to contain all the tweakery. But there are several practical problems with this that I understand are hard to address easily. The first is that a special sub-forum may still fill up with tweaky material that obscures harm reduction. That material is better off in DC or the Lounge - but it a lot of mod effort to prune it and transfer itto where it is more appropriate and obscure the HR info less. The second is that stimulants are not limited to meth, and a lot of serious discussion around cocaine, ADHD drugs, other pharmaceuticals and research chemicals would likely get lost in a meth dominated forum. The moderators who contribute most on all those topics don't have the bandwidth to manage the tweakery as well and overall we might lose their valued contributions on other stimulant substances.

My other motivation is that I believe that in life everyone should make a solid effort to reach their full emotional, intellectual, and social potential. Now, in my personal experience of stim use over 30 years I have found that heavy stim abuse has really prevented me from doing those three things. Despite being in my 50s I still have ambitions to make serious gains in each area of my life and I know that meth has been seriously retarding me doing so. BUT, it has also brought me some of the greatest fun and pleasure imaginable - especially on the sexual side. My life for the last 2 years has been an absolute sexual riot. I'm going to miss those adventures but personally as I take my dying breath one day, it is whether I achieved my intellectual, social, and emotional potential that will be on my mind - not the time I spent 12 hours daisy chaining with three 20 year old secretaries, two transbabes, and a cute midget in the Philipines.

So I am probablty guilty of seeing people who post here on meth like me through my own particular prejudices about what people should be trying to do with their lives. For older experienced tweakers I want to put my arm around them and lead them to the realisation that there are lots of good things they can still get out of life if they moderate themselves and wean themselves of meth or find a way to be much more selective in their use. For scared or curious young newbies I feel I want to give them the benefit of my experience and paint a picture of the rabbit holes I ran down that caused me to waste a lot of my life and greatly underachieve academically and professionally in my youth as I prioritised pleasure and/or hiding from my chidhood pain and trauma even when I didn't recognise I had it.

I honestly think that if heroin had turned out to be my drug of choice and I'd spent the last 20 years on the nod in between begging for coin on street corners, pimping out my girlfriend, or breaking into cars for spare change and consumer elctronics I'd be engaging with opiate users in the much the same way about making up for lost time or not getting onto a time-wasting track in the first place. Just without all the great sexcapades to make it a more interesting or amusing read for those following along.

Basically it all boils down to respecting people's freedom of choice, having a high tolerance for what drug use can lead people to do, and a belief that everyone can find pleasure and joy in the end so long as they use drugs safely and with some kind of perspective on what's really fun and what's just hiding from things about yourself or your family you cannot face but probably should. Which, again, seems to be what this place is really all about.
 
Sounds like someone needed a prescription for some Desoxyn… ;) (meth logic, aka: there's a methyl to my madness)

Chill out, guys. It's not that serious. And believe it or not, plenty of people are in fact capable of being functional meth users. No, it's not for everyone, for sure. But it's also not a blanket statement "bad drug". It's close-minded to paint the world so black-and-white just because you didn't like the drug. Why is it so common for people to shit all over things they don't understand?

Why the hostility? Did I do something to you?

Yeah you did. You attacked mrpeabody after they made their case respectfully, implying that they could be a 'worthless troll". That's not how you respond to someone who confides in us that they lost several children due to meth, regardless of what you think. You imply that they are "heavily biased", and basically throw them out of the equation for the very thing that makes their opinion most legitimate. And you think that they have a vendetta? How on Earth did they lose their mind? No one here is even saying that meth should be outright illegal, much less advocating "draconian" legislation. That is about the most offensive thing that one could conceivably post here.

How about you get mad when you want, then when you're feeling better tell everyone to relax. Makes a whole lot of sense. What a load of irony.
 
Forgot to factor in the firearm factor. This is a hunters paradise and everyone has a gun and everyone is carrying. Crimes that are happening on the spur of the moment and amp fueled are resulting in people getting shot much more easily. It's bad enough they were just fighting with their hands but now they just shoot you. Same with alcohol. Shit just gets people riled up I swear. Nice cool peeps turn into savages on the turn of a dime? What the hell? Is it so intense and you are so high that you just act on the spur of the moment? I guess.

I used to think I wanted to live rural but I was wrong. Give me back the city where at least there are neighbors close by. Takes 45 minutes for the cops to come from the shop to here. They put in a substation but it hasn't helped. This isn't about the right to bear arms. I believe in Venison wholeheartedly. But young people that should be having a good life are carrying and fucking up their whole future. Just damn sad when you see Mom's and Dad visiting junior in prison. Have 3 families within 10 miles doing that right now. Meth and guns kids. It's not going to end well.
What the fuck do guns have to do with any of this? Stop creating fake news and injecting your unrelated, personal biases into the topic. You moved to a rural area, you knew there'd be guns. Don't expect others to change their lives or give up their hobbies just because you don't happen to agree with aspects of it.
Guns + meth aren't even remotely related and any correlation is purely coincidental or just a regional thing. I spent a lot of years living (and doing drugs) in the west coast mountains and no one i knew in the drug community carried a firearm. Most of em if given a weapon, would have probably sold it for more dope. So stop creating stereotypes.

How do you feel then about Muslims?
Rap culture? "Urban" neighborhoods with all the black on black murder (and with all those nifty gun laws 😃) that always seems to be off limits in any discussion.

You'd make for a good journalist.
 
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Most of Team Nod (aka the heroin addicts that swarmed the board from about 2005/2006-on are mostly deceased from overdosing/fent..

I'm still here somehow 🤯

When old school bluelighters come here (that haven't been here in a while) some seemed to be shocked that I'm still around (and mostly coherent). Funny enough, the only drug that actually flatlined and managed to partially kill me was not opioids but rather an RC quaalude analog (etaqualone).
 
Yeah you did. You attacked mrpeabody after they made their case respectfully, implying that they could be a 'worthless troll".
Firstly, that's not what I said. I pointed out that his statement was either true or false and what either reality represented.
Secondly, I like how when I ask if I did something to you, I get a complaint about a comment I made about someone else days ago and have already apologized for.
That's not how you respond to someone who confides in us that they lost several children due to meth, regardless of what you think.
Wait, I'm sorry, but who are you to say how I should respond to a thing? I'm not violating site rules and I'm not breaking the law. Stop projecting your arbitrary would-be etiquette rules. No one wants your projections, thanks.
You imply that they are "heavily biased", and basically throw them out of the equation for the very thing that makes their opinion most legitimate.
No, I'm outright calling his opinion heavily biased, not just implying it. You don't think he has a bias? As stated previously, his extreme views on methamphetamine and preoccupation with propagating anti-meth messages would likely exclude him from jury duty in a meth-related case. Again: not to suggest meth isn't a dangerous drug when abused, but I just think there's some balance to be had in criticizing meth.

May I ask, @mr peabody if it's not too difficult to talk about, what were the causes of death for your three sons? I would guess methamphetamine overdoses? I mean, being that you say you lost your sons to meth, I'm expecting it was something medical and complicated that directly involved meth abuse itself, and it's not, idk for instance, gun violence, right?

And before everyone gets mad at me again and accuses me of being insensitive and offensive, I'd like to point out that I did not broach this subject. If someone else brings it up, I don't see how I'm not allowed to discuss the topic, and don't blame me if I'm dubious of drawn conclusions.
And you think that they have a vendetta?
Yes, I do. If someone killed my children, it's likely I might have a vendetta against them. Seeing as how @mr peabody considers the drug, methamphetamine, to be the killer of his sons, is it that hard to believe?
How about you get mad when you want, then when you're feeling better tell everyone to relax. Makes a whole lot of sense. What a load of irony.
You're the one blowing a gasket over comments not even made about you. And I'm not sure you understand what irony is. At least, I've never heard someone use the expression “a load of irony” and I fail to see any ironic angle. Generally irony refers to when what actually happens is the exact opposite of what's expected to happen. I believe the word you were aiming for was hypocritical, in that you were attempting to accuse me of being flippantly angry and then suddenly not. Nice try, but I'm not angry, just logical.

Speaking of irony, why exactly did you choose the username AlphaMethylPhenyl?
 
Hold on, I've got more…

How on Earth did they lose their mind?
What? I'm sorry what are you saying here? You're saying Peabody did or did not lose his mind? I'm confused, but moreover I wouldn't say anyone had lost their mind, and if that's your argument, yikes.
No one here is even saying that meth should be outright illegal,
Are you sure of that? I'm not certain you should be speaking for everyone.
much less advocating "draconian" legislation.
Draconian legislation is already in place. Do you know what the mandatory minimums are for methamphetamine at the federal level? If you have zero priors, five grams of pure meth will fetch you a mandatory minimum of five years in prison, and 50 grams triggers 10 years. If you have any priors, five grams triggers 10 years and 50 grams triggers 20 years. I mean, that a person could get ten years in prison for the simple possession of five measly grams of crystal meth is absurd, Draconian, and unjust, especially in a country with 2.2 million people incarcerated already, more than any other nation both in number (#2 India has ~1.9 million inmates) and per capita.
That is about the most offensive thing that one could conceivably post here.
OMFG, really? Sensitivo over here. Don't be so easily offended, especially as my intent was never to be offensive. You'd think that the intention of offending would need to at least be present for that prestigious award, Most Offensive Thing That One Could Conceivably Post Here. It's also amazing and a little bit touching how upset and offended you can become on someone else's behalf. Are you always like this? Seems impractical.
 
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His kids died from meth according to him, he definitely has a bias

I am sorry for his loss, but the facts are some people have horrible problems from meth, and others need it to focus in school/stay awake because of narcolepsy/lose weight so they don't have a stroke.

Nothing's all bad or all good, bad things happen sometimes, and there not always somebody to blame
Yeah you did. You attacked mrpeabody after they made their case respectfully, implying that they could be a 'worthless troll". That's not how you respond to someone who confides in us that they lost several children due to meth, regardless of what you think. You imply that they are "heavily biased", and basically throw them out of the equation for the very thing that makes their opinion most legitimate. And you think that they have a vendetta? How on Earth did they lose their mind? No one here is even saying that meth should be outright illegal, much less advocating "draconian" legislation. That is about the most offensive thing that one could conceivably post here.

How about you get mad when you want, then when you're feeling better tell everyone to relax. Makes a whole lot of sense. What a load of irony.
This doesn't need to be an argument, some people act like if I say a certain drug has medicinal worth, its in the same realm as politics/religion.

IE people think their viewpoint is the ONLY valid one, and if you don't believe what they believe, your an idiot.

Just like how heroin has medicinal worth, I'm sure that methylmethcathinone (bath salts) has medicinal worth too, society needs to stop blaming their problems on inanimate powders/liquids
 
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Please keep posting your " pamphlets' Mr. Peabody. I know some BL'ers that may not throw a like on them, but they are being read nonetheless. Posters don't have to read them. We all read what we choose to. The articles make much more sense because they have facts in them that some users may not know. And there are many families in my area that are losing their children to meth. Some are in jail and some are dead. They either got caught with it or engaged in violence because of it. Firearms were involved in two of the incidences. But it isn't just meth. It's fentanyl and xanax as well. Your " pamphlets" just aren't about meth either. They include all drugs. And if that's not HR I don't know what is. I commend you for posting the articles. Maybe, just maybe, one of them will stick with someone and they can turn their life around. 💖
I love @mr peabody posts and link them in the social media accounts occasionally. They're really good work.
 
Yeah the "pamphlet" term was a little harsh. To be frank i don't really know what people are reading anymore, at least at what frequency. There was once a way to see how many views a thread has gotten but that doesn't seem available anymore. Generally in the past the views seemed to be directly proportional to either the number of replies or the broad applicability of the thread title, like "how do i smoke heroin?". But maybe people are reading the articles and getting value i have no idea actually.

And i suppose that's what i meant. This place has always been a place for discourse and interaction, leveraging the wisdom and experiences of a group, but not really a library. That's where this differed from a place like erowid. You have to remember bluelight is a pre-reddit entity, and historically its purpose was filled not as a reading room/article sharing venue but rather as an exchange. I guess my fear was it might alienate people, though frankly who knows. Can't hurt. I was largely agreeing that the tone/authorship of some of them were in some cases questionable.
 
Everyone is.
Yes but there is a point of bias after which the person is no longer considered capable of being impartial enough to apply logic and reason in making sound judgments about a particular topic or case. This is why voir dire exists in the context of jury selection in the U.S. judicial system. While it's known everyone has personal biases, there are some examples of bias that would obviously preclude a juror from providing impartiality as guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This is the type of bias being referred to here.
 
Yes but there is a point of bias after which the person is no longer considered capable of being impartial enough to apply logic and reason in making sound judgments about a particular topic or case. This is why voir dire exists in the context of jury selection in the U.S. judicial system. While it's known everyone has personal biases, there are some examples of bias that would obviously preclude a juror from providing impartiality as guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This is the type of bias being referred to here.
This is Blue light, a private forum, Australian based, where he has every right to express his opinion on the subject at hand
 
he said "voir dire"
gaydance.gif
 
This is Blue light, a private forum, Australian based, where he has every right to express his opinion on the subject at hand
Not once have I ever said or implied that he doesn't have the right to his biased opinion. And I maintain the right of criticizing his opinion and its value, no matter how subjective and/or arbitrary my opinion of his opinion may be. I keep having to say this to people – I am a big fan and advocate of freedom of speech. I would never deny someone this right, as I appreciate my own free speech rights. You're not making any relevant point by this, and besides, what does the forum being private and Australian-based have to do with anything?
he said "voir dire"
gaydance.gif
Actually, I wrote it. But what's your point?

EDIT: actually considering that the emoji you used is called gaydance.gif, exactly what are you implying? Kinda smacks of hate speech a bit there, but I'm sure that wasn't what you meant. Please clarify.
 
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This is Blue light, a private forum, Australian based, where he has every right to express his opinion on the subject at hand
Everyone is.
he is more so than everyone else, you can't expect us to take this seriously
There is nothing safe about meth.
that is just flat out untrue

He has the right to free speech, and I have the right to disagree with something that is blatantly incorrect and harmful
 
Regular amphetamine is not stronger, it's less potent, lasts shorter, and does not release as much dopamine or serotonin. I think it releases more norepinephrine though so it can have a stronger physical response.
I'm not so sure I agree regarding duration, but that could be right. I agree with the rest of the assessment though. Relevant data:
 
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