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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

NPS Act V1. Blankets? Just Say No!

Si Dread said:
I am quite surprised by this & wonder also, if this might be the first step towards a Portuguese style rethink... we can only hope that at some point legislation is produced that actually makes drugs use safer. Because such legislation exists, Portugal, Colorado & Holland before them all proved that. Easing legal strictures against drugs use produces safer drugs use. Simples.
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Coincidence?
NSFW:
portugal-unemployment.png


350px-GDPgrowthPORTUGAL.jpg


portugal-debt_1856312i.jpg
 
I dont get the graghs? Are you suggesting that Portugals easing of drugs laws was for economic reasons or that the easing had some sort of economic impact? And why are they not safe for work, exactly? lol

One Thousand Words said:
I
My point is that although alcohol eventually kills, it takes a fucking long conserted effort to do so. Take violence and motor vehicles out of the equation (which can kill you sober), and you have a relatively safe substance. An alcoholic 12 months into a habit is in a far better situation than someone binging on the majority of the substances that are being proposed being banned.

The binge culture is the very reason why the majority of you can not be trusted with an open unregulated market.
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Unfortunately the bolded part of this sentence isn't entirely accurate. It does not actually take that long to drink yourself to death & people are now dying of cirrhosis of the liver in their early 20's, having begun drinking in their teens.

400% rise in people under 30, does this convince you? - http://www.theguardian.com/society/...sease-epidemic-alcohol-cirrhosis-young-people

However, I think the discussion should be on acute reactions, so I too would be interested in how many people die every year due to alcohol toxicity, too much booze in one go sorta thing. According to this NHS page, which fails to mention fatalities, well over a quarter of a million people were admitted to hospital for alcohol poisoning in 2012/13. Nearly 300 000 of them, actually - http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/alcohol-poisoning/Pages/Introduction.aspx

But if that's not enough, try Drinkaware, who claim that 360 people died from acute alcohol toxicity in 2011 - https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-...alcohol/effects-on-the-body/alcohol-poisoning

Well over a quarter of a million cases & 360 fatalities. Drink is a legal high, just because it's legal DOES NOT MAKE IT SAFE!
 
The graphs show how badly the Portuguese economy has tanked since decriminalisation. From 2001 unemployment is more than double, GDP has hovered around what is accepted as recession and government debt has increased to almost 75% of GDP (which is bad in case you don't know). Now I'm sure there are other factors at play but if you want to start treating drug addiction as a medical not a criminal issue then you are going to have to fund things such as your NHS to cover the shortfall. Given how popular austerity measure are around here I'd like to know how you plan to pay for your drug nirvana?

If I were you I'd be more pissed off that you couldn't have a beer while watching the football than not being able to access poor benzo substitutes through the mail.
 
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One door closes another opens they will never be able to ban everything n in force it
 
My best mate calls alcohol Depression juice, pretty much especially in his case. Misery is just part of the drug, does not have a good effect on my mental alcohol on its own. That will be the same for a lot of people aswell but they will still drink it because its legal and easily obtainable.
 
One Thousand Words said:
The graphs show how badly the Portuguese economy has tanked since decriminalisation. From 2001 unemployment is more than double, GDP has hovered around what is accepted as recession and government debt has increased to almost 75% of GDP (which is bad in case you don't know). Now I'm sure there are other factors at play but if you want to start treating drug addiction as a medical not a criminal issue then you are going to have to fund things such as your NHS to cover the shortfall. Given how popular austerity measure are around here I'd like to know how you plan to pay for your drug nirvana?

If I were you I'd be more pissed off that you couldn't have a beer while watching the football than not being able to access poor benzo substitutes through the mail.
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What has that to with anything? I hate football, rarely drink & I don't often need a benzo. Thanks for your concern though.

Of course there were other factors at play, a global recession for instance. You're grasping now mate. You expect the tax-payers might have to somehow help fund the third largest money making business on earth should it be legitimised? You're nuts. Portugal is being run by folk with the kinda skills on display in Greece. Greece hasn't decriminalised any drugs so I guess their economic shortfalls are entirely unrelated.

Legalised drugs sales are an economists wet dream pal (The Economist itself is a long-time proponent of legalisation), not accepting that is almost as dumb as believing that alcohol must be safe just coz it's legal.
 
Dark Side said:
My best mate calls alcohol Depression juice, pretty much especially in his case. Misery is just part of the drug, does not have a good effect on my mental alcohol on its own. That will be the same for a lot of people aswell but they will still drink it because its legal and easily obtainable.
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It's very depressing. I started noticing it really lowers your consciousness compared with most other things. There can be a short temporary lift, but then you plunge down much lower than what's normal for you, and the day after you can be so low you're full of negative emotions and hate everything.

So I think alcohol really lowers consciousness, or keeps consciousness low, probably the opposite of weed. The body-poisoning is also really bad for me, I hate that toxic feeling.
 
alcohol makes people morose, it does haev a hueg effect on your state of mind in the medium to short term and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the violence is due to benzo type lowered inhibition rage in the more aggro drinkers.

you can't really 'rule out' violence and car accidents when talking about alcohol deaths, when they contribute massively to number of deaths of not only drinkers but innocent victims. These figures are obscene and you cannot disconnect these consequences from the health consquences to the individual consuming alcohol without considering the collateral damage of their alcohol abuse.

Also the fact this is happening en mass in urban city spaces every night makes the whole environment dangerous and frankly intimidating. This is drug abuse and related anti social behaviour on a huge scale that makes some urban centers no-go zones at weekends for orderinary people who feel in danger because of the pissheads and their unpredictability.

A world apart from people who moderately use drugs in a safe informed manner in their own homes or private parties. It is always the pissheads in the streets in the evening causing true problems for society.
 
Ninae said:
It's very depressing. I started noticing it really lowers your consciousness compared with most other things. There can be a short temporary lift, but then you plunge down much lower than what's normal for you, and the day after you can be so low you're full of negative emotions and hate everything.

So I think alcohol really lowers consciousness, or keeps consciousness low, probably the opposite of weed. The body-poisoning is also really bad for me, I hate that toxic feeling.
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it also rapidly causes thiamine deficiency and this can result in some serious side effects like death and dementia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernicke–Korsakoff_syndrome
 
Ive not read all of the contents of those links yet so im very pleased to hear that posession for personal use will not be a crime. I wont be able to carry on as i am doing currently, but that opens the door to the possibilty of having a small stash for personal use, to be taken on an occasional basis only. It would greatly reduce the potential for use to become habitual, because once the stash is gone, that is it, never to be replaced, if they actually succeed in getting european vendors to stop shipping here.

Those that dont give up drugs alltogether following this will obviously just move back to the 'old school' drugs. Nothing much will change in terms of harm reduction imo. The only thing that will change is that the illegal drug dealers will be shifting a lot more product all of a sudden.
 
and with a years notice until it comes into effect, expect booming sales, bulk sales, in the meantime while the vendors transfer their product to blackmarketeers.

These drugs won't go ayway.
 
One Thousand Words said:
The graphs show how badly the Portuguese economy has tanked since decriminalisation. From 2001 unemployment is more than double, GDP has hovered around what is accepted as recession and government debt has increased to almost 75% of GDP (which is bad in case you don't know). Now I'm sure there are other factors at play
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Are you honestly saying Portugal's decriminalization policy is responsible for their economic crisis? Astounding. You have completely lost the plot. Not one economist, sociologist or sane politician would agree with you.

Are you on some shit research chemical?
 
I am simply pointing out an obvious coincidence. Portugal should have been saving millions on law enforcement cost yet from the exact moment decriminisation was introduced the economy crumbled. This was a good 5 years before the gfc, at a time where countries like Ireland were actually booming.

We have no way to say if this is just bad luck or just perhaps productivity decreased because shitty cannabinoids became less popular?
 
The savings from 'law enforcement costs' are completely, absolutely 100% neglible compared to the size of Portugal's debt and economic problems. The two are not related in any way shape or form and, sorry OTW, but only an ignorant fool could think or suggest otherwise. Stick to the day job which you are so obviously good at.

And at a time when countries like Ireland were actually booming? Oh yes, Ireland, that country that in 2004 George Osbourne suggested we should emulate. That country that all but went bust in the blink of an eye later. Great economic policy they were following. Basically tried to copy the UK inflated/unrealistic housing boom with no currency to back it up and had to go begging to the EC for a bailout a few years later. Great economic policy that one. Probably just the fault of some drug policy of theirs that remains hidden up to now though. I'm sure the truth will come out to support your argument in years to come.

So. Alcoholism. Benzodiazepines. Economics. What other shit don't you know fuck all about? ;) As long as that education wasn't wasted...(stick to gluing teeth).
 
Name calling is the sign of desperation SHM ;)

Have you ever been to Portugual in the last 10 years? A shit hole beyond reproach in my experience. God save the queen if Britain heads down that track.

Besides we are debating the merits of banning legal highs, that following decriminalisation in Portugual are almost non existent now.
 
This really is cobblers. You can't argue that alcohol is harmless any more though, can you, coz I've proven that & you've ignored so you come up with more of this rubbish. Carry on with yourself, if your argument is not cogent, it's not worth discussing.
 
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