???? people change, they become douche bags when once they were decent, shit happens, Blar blar blar. I'm just saying in the uk the things the government makes a shit tonne of money from are still legal, things that don't are now illegal. The U.K. Is so backwards is almost at a standstill. RC's aren't a poor relation of 'traditional' drugs, they are a development. I see you disapprove, but they have their place. Or they did. Have you ever actually tried any?
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European & African
Drug Discussion
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NPS Act Discussion V2. Novel, Psychoactive, Still here!
- Thread starter Si Dread
- Start date
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
Name one drug recently banned that was an actually improvement.
If any of them were better market forces will dictate that soon enough you will find them back on the black market.
If any of them were better market forces will dictate that soon enough you will find them back on the black market.
Agreed, and I think we will actually. 3fmp, would be my example. It's a brilliant functional stim. It deffo has its place under amphet. It's a bit like drinks though. We all have different preferences. I like what I like, you like what you like...
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
Is 3fmp really better than a controlled dose of amphetamine sulphate?
Of all the things the government does, putting the hand brakes on an unregulated market of untested Frankenstein drugs is hardly the most insidious.
Perhaps start by reading through the mdvp mega threads around bluelight to see how quickly the excitement of a new compound is quickly replaced by psychosis and plenty of deaths by misadventures. Even over the past couple of months the 3fmp thread has been slowly revealing a multitude of side effects that only reinforces the Guinea pig nature of this chemical.
Of all the things the government does, putting the hand brakes on an unregulated market of untested Frankenstein drugs is hardly the most insidious.
Perhaps start by reading through the mdvp mega threads around bluelight to see how quickly the excitement of a new compound is quickly replaced by psychosis and plenty of deaths by misadventures. Even over the past couple of months the 3fmp thread has been slowly revealing a multitude of side effects that only reinforces the Guinea pig nature of this chemical.
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
LSD has always been banned and that's even better
But these sides aren't limited to RC's. They exist with illegal drugs too, so I'm not sure I get your point? Why are RC's 'dirty' compared to illegal drugs?
? Don't worry, you can get round it, just buy a duvet ??
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
You only have to compare vasoconstriction (purple knees and hands, problems with vision) that occurs with 3-fmp which is only a minor issue with traditional amphetamine sulphate.
This is nothing new. I too was excited 15 yrs ago when we were importing large amounts of legal 4-mmc to get around the legal restrictions on MDMA. We worked out pretty quickly though the cardiovascular side effects far outweighed the legal risks and switched back.
Experience means I see no benefit to society allowing open market on these drugs, many of which are only a couples of years old.
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
The same argument could be said for human experiments by the nazi and Japanese during WW2.
Using desperate drug addicts or immature thrill seekers as test subjects isn't something any government should condone. Just because it's now illegal doesn't stop your experimentation, it simply absolves the government from future litigation.
Using desperate drug addicts or immature thrill seekers as test subjects isn't something any government should condone. Just because it's now illegal doesn't stop your experimentation, it simply absolves the government from future litigation.
/gets coat.[/QUOTE]
I would not acquaite my argument with justifying nazi or any other actions, not at all. Taking a few recreation drugs before we are totally aware of their long term impacts is a choice.
I would not acquaite my argument with justifying nazi or any other actions, not at all. Taking a few recreation drugs before we are totally aware of their long term impacts is a choice.
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
How much choice does an addict have though?
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
The problem was never the drugs so much as it was the total ban on sellers of those drugs giving any information on their (relatively) safe usage. Instead we end up with a gajillion and one shiny packets filled with fuck knows what that even the sellers don't have a clue about half the time. A legalised drug market has to be controlled and be backed up with proper education and information. Using the RC free-for-all as an example of what a legalised drug world would look like is highly misleading... which could almost make one wonder whether it was done so deliberately to head off future calls for legalisation...
*buffs up the shine on his finest tinfoil hat*
This one. Not been able to in years.
consumer
Bluelighter
I think if the substance is worthy and demand is there then supply will occur. LSD is hard to make, the ingredients tightly controlled but yet it is still widely available. Because people want it and the people behind it's production believe in it...so thats probably not the best example. But where there is demand and money to be made their will be people prepared to make it happen whatever their motivations are..
Plenty.
steewith2ees
Bluelight Crew
I recently asked a friend of mine who is quite the acid head if he could get me some proper street blotters (LSD25). He told me I was wasting my money as the 1P-LSD blotters I have are are, in his extremely extensive use of acid and other psyches, in his opinion much better than the average street tab, which in the UK has been dropping with regards to the average dose decade on decade since the 1980's. Add to the fact that 10 years ago, if you bought a bunk tab, the worst damage that could have happened is tat you would be let with an inert piece of card - but now street tabs in the UK can be adulterated while remaining active, it may contain one of the newer NPS designer lysergamides such as ALD - 52, LSZ or even a potentially lethal NBOMe type drug. I now prefer 1P-LSD to standard street acid for multiple reasons and I am not the only person with this view.
OTW, you didn't experience the whole legal high thing as you live on the other side of the world - it changed the landscape of UK drug culture significantly. Just because we had were able to have some seriously powerful drugs, including LSD (the general consensus at present is that the 1P version is nothing more than a pro - drug for LSD), posted through our letter box for 8 years is no reflection on how amazing some of these drugs actually were.
It's difficult to get your head around the concept of being able to legally purchase many designer versions of popular drugs of use and abuse, versions that in a lot of cases were as good as the original drug that the designer version as based on, and for all the shot in the dark guinea pig chems that were sold during this period, many others (1P-LSD being a good exampe) were reasonably well understood with regards to short, medium and long term health risks due to the similar pharmacokinetic profile compared to the parent analogue.
It's a shame that you didn't have 8 years of being able to order seriously good drugs in your neck of the woods OTW - legally through the post from legitimate vendors (who were in a lot of cases very well run with consistently quality products) but just because you couldn't don't arbitrarily label these drugs as automatically crap. Perhaps if you had actually taken some of the better ones you might be able to qualify your assumptions.
Don't knock it until you have tried it.
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
You assume quite a lot stee. For starters I have lived in Europe off and on for 20 years, its the nature of my job, and second that Australia Customs is efficient as it is portrayed on television.
The majority of compounds arrive here and are distributed to a niche market that is actually more knowledgable and savvy than you are giving credit to. Despite what space junk might lead you to believe the post does get through. I can assure you that if its worth it you can procure it.
LSD in particular is extremely plentiful, and in increasingly good quality. Nbomes have been driven almost to extinction in certain circles around here believe it or not. Perhaps if 1p-lsd is as good as your expert suggests, it may be present too, but there are some heady producers/importers who do know their market so unless it is profitable they probably wouldn't bother.
If a drug is good enough I'm sure it will survive in the UK, however from experience I couldn't name more than one that I am confident about.
The majority of compounds arrive here and are distributed to a niche market that is actually more knowledgable and savvy than you are giving credit to. Despite what space junk might lead you to believe the post does get through. I can assure you that if its worth it you can procure it.
LSD in particular is extremely plentiful, and in increasingly good quality. Nbomes have been driven almost to extinction in certain circles around here believe it or not. Perhaps if 1p-lsd is as good as your expert suggests, it may be present too, but there are some heady producers/importers who do know their market so unless it is profitable they probably wouldn't bother.
If a drug is good enough I'm sure it will survive in the UK, however from experience I couldn't name more than one that I am confident about.