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non-addictive opiates

Some say racemic methadone was *that much* less addictive, in proportion to the nmda-antagonistic properties of the relatively (mU-opioid), inactive enantiomer. But like Hamilton said- tramadol is a pure agonist, and has absolutely no opioid antagonistic qualities. Also, dose level, and context play big roles (is the patient, otherwise, in real pain). So many factors...psychological and physical addictions. Its just a big mess. Probably the simplest and most elegant way over any addiction is a nice slow taper down. But you need discipline.
 
loperamide.... but it is addictive. i'm addicted to it.. when i stop i shit my brains out and feel quite uncomfortable phsyically (irritable, restless, etc)
 
ok NEW QUESTION

would a sub-threashold dose of Ibogaine still have the effect where your tolerance to opiates diapears?
 
Yes, a amantadine and memantine do reverse tolerance though not enough to prevent a full blown junkie from having horrific withdrawals upon discontinuing the use of opioids, this is first hand experience gained over a period of 3-4 years... DXM used sparingly (Ie. not for dissociative effects) seemed more efficacious, and ketamine even more so. Phencyclidine was by far the most effective, and almost completely ameliorated withdrawal symptoms.

IMHO the more strongly dissociative the NMDA inhibitor, the more efficacious it is in this respect.

As a tidbit, a few minor structural changes to salvinorin a makes a full blown mu receptor agonist as recently reported in I believe the Journal of Medicinal Chemistry. I do not believe that its abuse liability has been established.

Lastly, the kappa antagonism of buprenorphine is absolutely inextricably intertwined with its antidepressant effects. It block Momma natures perverse little pet dynorphin, the "feel bad" endogenous ligand to the kappa receptor.
 
All Opioids that kill pain are addictive. All Opioids that bind to Opioid receptors cause dependance. This certainly includes Tramadol, Loperamide, Diphenoxylate, etc.

Partial agonists are no less addictive than full agonists. Buprenorphine, Pentazocine, Nalbuphine, all have a long history of abuse and addiction as the primary drug of choice for countless thousands.

Some of the Benzomorphans may be considered non-addictive Opioids. Cyclazocine being the best example. I am sure that it will cause dependance though. It produces a profound dysphoria making compulsive drug seeking behavior / addiction unlikely.
 
ATF said:
yeah, I dont think tramadol is non-addictive, from personal experience. But I think at one time they were saying even methadone was 'non-addictive', and 'non-abusable', etc.

I thought that the OP might have heard something like that ~ hopefully this guess was wrong, because I would love some non-addictive opiates!
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Originally, when it wqs first produced, heroin was maketed as a safe & reliable cure for 'morpinism' (morphine addiction) 8o Lot's have had that title stripped, like the benzos etc.

For a non addictive painkiller, naloxone & other antagonists have analgesic activity as well. Then again, some people actually liked pentazocine to the point of abuse - I thought the side effects from that drug actually made the pain worth hanging onto so as to not have to take the pentazocine (getting so confused that if you turned 180' you'd be lost in your own hose doesn't seem like it'd appeal to anybody...

Nowt so queer as folk
 
sorry I only read the first page. but i had to post after reading someone saying tramadol withdrawal is "very mild". fuckin pissed me off.

tramadol is fuckin addictive, and withdrawals are terrible.

now to the OP: No I dont believe there are non-addictive mu-agonists. if you say opiates then salvia should count as one. and it's not addictive. i heard it's quite anti-addictive.
 
ok- so whenever a discussion pops up where people are pontificating the glorious existence of non addictive opioids, someone brings up the always hilarious sounding, herkinorin. Since this is ADD, im sure everyone here knows what herkinorin is, but just in case, herkinorin is synthed from salvinorin B and has been shown to have quite potent mu agonism with neglible kappa agonism. the reason people discuss hekinorin in relation to non-addictive opioids, is that unlike most mu agonists, herkinorin doesnt recruit β-arrestin-2 to the intracellular domain of the μ-opioid receptor. It has been suspected that the recruitment of β-arrestin-2 is greatly involved in the development of tolerance and addiction. it therefore is argued that since herkinorin does not recruit β-arrestin-2, it might not cause addiction and tolerance.

HOWEVER, why is it that i feel that this is all simplified a bit too much and overly wishful thinking? Am i crazy for thinking that there are SEVERAL distinct proccesses that lead to tolerance and addiction. I find it hard to believe that β-arrestin-2 is solely responsible for addiction and tolerance. Has there been any real studies done yet which confirm or dispell this idea regarding herkinorin being a non-addictive opioid??
 
daddysgone said:
HOWEVER, why is it that i feel that this is all simplified a bit too much and overly wishful thinking? Am i crazy for thinking that there are SEVERAL distinct proccesses that lead to tolerance and addiction. I find it hard to believe that β-arrestin-2 is solely responsible for addiction and tolerance. Has there been any real studies done yet which confirm or dispell this idea regarding herkinorin being a non-addictive opioid??
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Nope, rather the contrary. You sound absolutely reasonable to me. I would bet there's not a single mechanism but instead several ones... Maybe one of 'em is predominant, but that's a different story.
 
We (wife & I) have a family member who is running tests (proper clinical trials) with what she calls 'Non-addictive' opiate based medicines to aid those suffering depression & other mental illness.

It's been a while since I have spoken to her, the wife was telling me about these trials that she (the family member) is conducting, having seen her about a month ago at a family gathering.

I shall stick it on my 'things to do list' toemail or phone her (family member) & ask her what these so-called 'non-addictive' opiates are.

From my own experiences over the years of being on many various narcotic medications (at various dosages too), I found Kadian which is a time released Morphine medication to be pretty much 'non-addictive'.

Thats to say that came the time to drop the medication I didn't need to ween myself off nor did I have any WD's from it.
This was two doses per 24 hours (one morning, one night) over a 6 month period.

But that maybe just due to my own physical / mental attributes & not the attributes of Kadian itself.

It has been said elsewhere & by a good many doctors that Kadian is one of the lesser evils in the Morphine based medications.
 
full antagonists are still opiods/opiates.
these will most probably be the non-addictive ones.
 
William Burroughs called the search for a non-addictive opioid the modern day equivalent to the alchemists search for the philosophers stone. He posits that an opioids addictive potential is comparitive to its ability to kill pain; that is, an opioid that is not addictive will not kill pain, and that an opioid that does not kill pain is not addictive.

Nefopam is not an opioid but is touted as a non-addictive pain killer. It is said to cause euphoria, but not dependancy. Reported as one-half as potent as Morphine for analgesia.

HOWEVER, why is it that i feel that this is all simplified a bit too much and overly wishful thinking? Am i crazy for thinking that there are SEVERAL distinct proccesses that lead to tolerance and addiction. I find it hard to believe that β-arrestin-2 is solely responsible for addiction and tolerance. Has there been any real studies done yet which confirm or dispell this idea regarding herkinorin being a non-addictive opioid??
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Reminds me of the 1897 quote from Ridley, that Kratom (mitragynine) is the cure for opium addiction. And then Morphine the cure for Opium addiction. And Heroin the cure for Morphine addiction. And Methadone the cure for Heroin addiction. And Buprenorphine the cure for Heroin addiction. ad nauseum.

Trying to point to one single process or enzyme or receptor or cell is an act in wishful thinking. Addiction is one of the most complicated neurosis experienced by mankind. I doubt the full spectrum of addiction in general from compulsive behavior to dependancy will ever be completely understood.
 
I've always found that vicodin / percoset withdrawals to be nearly non-existent if I only used for 2-3 months at a time.

Also... I don't have withdrawals from suboxone these days... I've been getting high off suboxones very very infrequently for two years...
 
Flupirtine is interesting. It is non-opiod, but a good painkiller for strong pain and is not traditionally addictive in the way most opiates are. It is however almost impossible to get scripted in the UK because no doctors even know what it is.
 
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