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non-addictive opiates

IGNVS

IGNVS

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they exist, i heard a reference to one here once but i cant find it no matter how hard i search.
does anyone know the names of these drugs?
 
Is it something incredibly rare or could it be something like tramadol? I've heard people say the partial agonists are less addictive ~ or even 'non-addictive' ~ whatever that really means.
 
Any mu-agonist alone is probably addictive. If the side effects were bad enough they might cease to be, but mu opioid agonism is incredibly good at hijacking the reward system.
 
yeah, I dont think tramadol is non-addictive, from personal experience. But I think at one time they were saying even methadone was 'non-addictive', and 'non-abusable', etc.

I thought that the OP might have heard something like that ~ hopefully this guess was wrong, because I would love some non-addictive opiates!
 
there is no such thing as a non-addictive opiate

there is a semi-synthetic semi-opiate drug, tramadol, but it truly isnt an opiate, it just triggers some receptors a little bit, but not enough to be an opiate

i dont know but I think a thing constitutes an opiate if it is, obviously, derived from that shit, and works on certain receptors (delta/kappa/ and most importantly MU). If something triggers these receptors, you're going to have a good time/get high; thereby ensuring that it will have addictive properties
 
ATF said:
Is it something incredibly rare or could it be something like tramadol? I've heard people say the partial agonists are less addictive ~ or even 'non-addictive' ~ whatever that really means.
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tramadol is a partial agonist, like this dude said.

I think that this would mean it is DAMN HARD to get addicted to it. You can get a tolerance, semi-physical addiction, from which you will withdrawal, but it won't be as bad as a real opiate...

but, i know that tramadol withdrawl is actually really rough cuz I think it works on more SSRI shit for some reason, and thats why it is sometimes used off-label for depression
 
Tramadol is not a partial agonist. You know how you can tell? If you're addicted to heroin and you take a tramadol you're not instantly thrown into the worth withdrawal you've ever experienced.

All partial agonists are competitive antagonists in the presence of pure agonists.
 
sunset117 said:
I think that this would mean it is DAMN HARD to get addicted to it. You can get a tolerance, semi-physical addiction [1], from which you will withdrawal, but it won't be as bad as a real opiate...[2]

but, i know that tramadol withdrawl is actually really rough cuz I think it works on more SSRI shit for some reason, and thats why it is sometimes used off-label for depression
Click to expand...

[1] What is this supposed to be?
[2] It won't be as bad as a "real opiate"?! Hum? What is an "unreal" opiate then? Sorry to say so, but this is nonsense.

Tramadol, like almost every µ-agonist (!) will provoke addiction, both physically and mentally. Of course not as strong as heroine or methadone (I guess this was what Sunset117 wanted to say) but it will definitively do so.

A non-addictive opiate you ask? Try kappa-agonists, like Salvinorine A. For sure not addictive.

Peace! Murphy

Edit: And btw, the question is very inaccurate. Are you looking for agonists or antagonists? Compounds that just act on the µ-receptor or are kappa- and delta-ligands allowed, too? Are you aware of the definition of the term "opiate"? Maybe a rhetorical question
 
Salvinorin A from Salvia Divinorum?
Is it primarily a kappa-agonist or is that a peripheral effect?
That stuff is a bit wacky for me to use regularly to get a fix, I guess that could be why it would be less addictive?
 
i think the OP is referring to thinking there is a Mu-agonist that is not addicitive and not regarding the other opioid receptor types and such

anyway, there is no truly recreation Mu i believe that is devoid of tolerance and addiction potentials...

no doubt delta and kappa activators can have analgesic effects of a different nature and are not addictive
 
if there were non addictive opiates I would still take them e'ry day

sunset117 said:
there is no such thing as a non-addictive opiate

there is a semi-synthetic semi-opiate drug, tramadol, but it truly isnt an opiate, it just triggers some receptors a little bit, but not enough to be an opiate

i dont know but I think a thing constitutes an opiate if it is, obviously, derived from that shit, and works on certain receptors (delta/kappa/ and most importantly MU). If something triggers these receptors, you're going to have a good time/get high; thereby ensuring that it will have addictive properties
Click to expand...

What he said ^^^^ THERE IS NO OPIATE THAT IN NON ADDICTIVE, the less addictive ones are the partial agonists Such as buprenorphine which I am currently taking for opiate maintenance, and let me tell you, it doesn't get you "HIGH" it just gets me well, however, to someone who is relatively inexperienced with opiates a sublingual dose of *2mg would lay them out for a full day.

*Depending on body weight, I'm assuming it may take more than 2mg for a five hundred pound morbidly obese man than a size zero little suburban barbie doll princess.%)

More than one love,
Inrvizion
 
Salvinorin A is an opiate, oh look, a pig with wings!

ATF said:
Salvinorin A from Salvia Divinorum?
Is it primarily a kappa-agonist or is that a peripheral effect?
That stuff is a bit wacky for me to use regularly to get a fix, I guess that could be why it would be less addictive?
Click to expand...

^^^^^Salvinorin A is basically the isolated active ingredient of Salvia Divinorum which is a Sage plant, not an opium poppy... Salvia is in no way an opiate, it's an entheogenic drug that is widely misused and sold in every single headshop in the state I live in. Salvinorin A though, that's some pretty tough stuff, How'd you wind up with that? Make it yourself or order it online? I saw it priced at like 5k for 1 gram of pure Salvinorin A so I assume it must take only a teeny tiny amount to rocket you into outer space...:p

Peace,
Inrvizion
 
Salvinorin is completely and totally a kappa agonist, and a highly potent one active from around 200 micrograms upwards.

No mu effects at all, and without a scale that is accurate in mcg. scale, I would not advise taking it pure, stick to salvia leaf, and enhanced extracts.
 
di-hydro et-orphine? Believed to be thousands of times more pyschologically addictive than morphine, but carry nill physical dependency:\

Its an opiod tho...fully synthetic. All opiates carry dependency as a side-effect, as do the vast majority of oids im sure...
 
Hammilton said:
Tramadol is not a partial agonist. You know how you can tell? If you're addicted to heroin and you take a tramadol you're not instantly thrown into the worth withdrawal you've ever experienced.

All partial agonists are competitive antagonists in the presence of pure agonists.
Click to expand...

It really isn't as simple as that.
for a partial agonist to precipitate WD symptoms it would have to be high affinity and low intrinsic activity. by high affinity it would have to have about the same or a higher affinity than the full agonist, additionally it would have to bind to the same site or have substanitial binding overlap from its site to displace or block the the full agonist binding and doing its stuff, this is not always the case.
 
no no, i mean one that dosnt make those false receptors, or like one that dosnt fuck with your neurochemistry so that you dont get w/d's
 
Inrvizion said:
^^^^^Salvinorin A is basically the isolated active ingredient of Salvia Divinorum which is a Sage plant, not an opium poppy... Salvia is in no way an opiate, it's an entheogenic drug that is widely misused and sold in every single headshop in the state I live in. Salvinorin A though, that's some pretty tough stuff, How'd you wind up with that? Make it yourself or order it online? I saw it priced at like 5k for 1 gram of pure Salvinorin A so I assume it must take only a teeny tiny amount to rocket you into outer space...:p

Peace,
Inrvizion
Click to expand...
So now we are talking about the definition of "opiate". You are of course correct, "opiates" are substances solely from opium poppy. Well, tramadol is completely synthetical (and therefore an "opioid") but it was accepted in the discussion as well. So, I suggested salvinorin A.

If we are strictly talking about what the thread opener asked ("non-addictive opiates") and we strictly stick to the definition, then I second apomorphine ;)

Peace! Murphy
 
vecktor said:
It really isn't as simple as that.
for a partial agonist to precipitate WD symptoms it would have to be high affinity and low intrinsic activity. by high affinity it would have to have about the same or a higher affinity than the full agonist, additionally it would have to bind to the same site or have substanitial binding overlap from its site to displace or block the the full agonist binding and doing its stuff, this is not always the case.
Click to expand...

For opiates though, I'm not aware of any full agonists not blocked by a suitable partial agonist (obviously affinity is a big issue, but o-desmethyltramadol has a high affinity) so it seems that there is significant overlap for all known mu agonists and antagonists aside from the *inorin's. Tramadol itself has negligible affinity, and the m1 metabolite is mostly or entirely responsible for the opioid effects. I honestly don't know if tramadol itself is a partial agonist, but it seems unlikely.

Oh wait, I'm thinking about the kappa receptor in that *inorin bit. I know salvinorin is not entirely blocked by buprenorpine (a kappa antagoist), at least with a high enough dose (8mg dose, taken ~18-20 hours previous only partially blocked a 5mg smoked salvinorin a dose. The measurement is not 100%, there may be a 1/2mg off +/- , from my 20mg/ml solution- if you weren't on suboxone, it'd be difficult to measure that solution well enough.



IGNVS: I'm not aware of any opiates making 'false receptors'- some types of tumors, yes, but not opiates. It'd be an intresting concept, but AFAIK, it's false. There are some studies indicating that receptor proliferation may be involved in tolerance, but theres a lot more to it that that.

And re: "one that dosnt [sic] fuck with your neurochemistry so that you dont get w/d's'

You can't take a drug that doesn't mess with your neurochemistry. Taking a psychoactive drug means messing with your neurochemistry, that's sort of the definition, you know?

There are some opiates that bind to the ORL receptors that produce less or no tolerance. I think bromidol and methydol are both strong ORL agonists (or is it antagonists you want here? I forget!!)
 
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