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  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Trigger Warning Night of LSD tripping went horribly wrong

Exactly, total control over one's actions can be mastered and is a must.. I mean tripping is like surfing It takes practice with smaller amounts first. Then go for bigger waves of once comfortable and mastered. Amount of dose counts too. Rock climbers go slow too. This is like rock climbing of the mind. Starts slow and needs a skill to it. This person truly needs to confront what happened that night and it is not light. He can get past it but no LSD for now. Where was he? Some people just should not trip too. Not saying that is this guy for good, but for now yes I am.
total control (any real-time control) is not humanly possible.
mastery of routine is by practice, and you cannot practice something before you experience it.
good reflexes may appear as mastery.

the guy took way too much for his constitution - he was not properly exposed to information that conforms to harm reduction. @Esperighanto
 
I think Esperighanto was just referring to personal endeavors to help contribute to the the thread and more importantly the understanding of such doses. Yes reading one sentence and considering this your research for inducing drugs, is terrible and that dumbass will find out.

I mean I remember lurking as a kid and being like OK 3.5g shrooms is standard, then after more research I found the mental tripping latter a better way for me, started with 1g and added .5 until I reached up to 5g or felt comfortable for heroic dosing.

All respect 🙏. All of you guys fucking rock. And I do hope OP is reading and listening to all our cautions ⚠️ and concerns.
 
i think the OP already ruled out our thoughts and told us to shut the hell up, we don't know what we're talking about, she figured it out all by herself
 
His eyes were completely black and there was no soul.
The cops got here, pulled him off of me, (there were about 6 units- sp 12 cops in my house. They tasted him twice, did nothing. So they basically doggy piled him and arrested him.
That sounds like an episode of possession to me. The eyes don't lie, if you feel it.. you feel it, and along with being in a catatonic state where all the nervous energy is channelled to muscles giving excessive strength. And of course the actual behaviour being excessive violence tending towards murder, between a person who otherwise loves you, and not just say stripping naked, speaking gibberish, or the many other behaviours that aren't violence.

If he loves you, which I'll assume he does, then trying to bash your head in is not him. Sleep walking doesn't cover it either, because assuming he is not violent in ordinary life or for his profession, there would be no pattern for that behaviour in the first place to be triggered. Even under hypnosis or sleepwalking states, where the person is not fully conscious, there is still moderation and judgement occurring by lets call it the 'superior self/mind', which will not transgress certain limits.

It's not my realm of study, and obviously I'm not deep diving on the subject personally because of the inherent dangers, so I can't say whether certain things can be done to mitigate such experiences besides not taking psychoactives in the first place.. which was my final conclusion when I last took a psychedelic NN-DMT over a decade ago, after realizing that we aren't the only fish in the sea. Unfortunately this is just seems to be one of the real dangers of psychoactives, it's a big ocean and from time to time people happen upon unfriendly species. It can happen without psychoactives too, but under ordinary conditions the mind is naturally protected from intrusion.

The only practical advice I can suggest, should it happen again, is water. I have heard there is an electrical component to possession, and for whatever reason running water has a kryptonite effect on it. Get them into a shower or if outside by a running hose.
 
I have seen similar things a few times. Never the level of violence described but certainly erratic and alarming behavior.

i hate to say this, but homie should never take psychedelics again imo. If it happened once, it can happen again (in fact it likely will) with potentially even worse consequences. its possible it was a freak incident, but why take the chance? Getting arrested and tazed is not the worst that can hhappen. Tragically, I know this from experience.
 
hopefully you did not just stumble on this but that by titrating up you discovered this about yourself.
Absolutely, the first dose I asked for was "what people would get for 'one hit' in the 60's", and I was given a 325ug gel tab. I view that as an honest and true-to-history response, as ~300ug was a standard dose of LSD in the 60's. Later I would access blotter that was genuinely 50ug per tab, and I explored ranges from 25-300ug in 25ug intervals with 1-2 week breaks in-between, and it was fascinating, truly a great exercise in titrating up and gaining familiarity with a substance in my opinion.
 
I think Esperighanto was just referring to personal endeavors to help contribute to the the thread and more importantly the understanding of such doses. Yes reading one sentence and considering this your research for inducing drugs, is terrible and that dumbass will find out.
I want to back this up, I was stating that my personal preference for LSD is in higher doses due to the fact that we all have different brains, and therefore we all function differently in the first place. I brought up my higher dosed experiences as an example of the fact that high dosed experiences are not guaranteed to cause incidents similar to the horribly traumatic incident that occurred involving OP, however I often feel like a broken record in stating that I am a specifically hardheaded person who's lost most of the organs that contain serotonin receptors in the first place (intestines), and that I've suffered from and recovered from an amount of brain damage that most people would never be able to understand, frankly.
I mean I remember lurking as a kid and being like OK 3.5g shrooms is standard, then after more research I found the mental tripping latter a better way for me, started with 1g and added .5 until I reached up to 5g or felt comfortable for heroic dosing.
I agree wholeheartedly with this approach to a substance, feel out the tolerance (often it's either 3-4 days or 7-10 days, in the rare case of N-benzylated phenethylamines we may be looking at more like 3 weeks) and then every time the tolerance is reset, if the set and setting feels right, possibly push the dose higher by a small amount. I started initially with very low dosed psilocin chocolate but then my third trip ever was with a single tab of LSD, that I had asked for by dose and was presented, one that now, as somebody who's used LSD hundreds of times and has spent time in the chemistry side of this world believes those gel tabs were accurately 325ug.
 
I've taken too much - I still didn't wanna bash anybody's head in that I live with, while they're sleeping, not even bothering you, and i didn't need the cops to be called to get me off of anybody while i seemed possessed

Really good acid and too much acid just shouldn't do that to anybody with a full deck
I meam, that's not really fair to say. On a sufficiently large dose, LSD becomes a deliriant and it induces amnesia. That could happen to anyone and when in that state, that person is completely out of their mind. Now, how much does it take to be in a state of delirium? That depends on your body's particular enzymology and metabolism. Some people metabolize LSD slowly, and some metabolize it in a way that can bring about a temporary dopamine-induced state of psychosis. Dr. David E. Nichols while studying lysergamides with his research group at Purdue opined once that a small percentage of the population experience a quasi-psychotic state about halfway through an LSD trip.

This paper from Dr. Nichols touches on the subject.

Also, there's more information here about psychedelics, safety, and psychoses.

the guy took way too much for his constitution - he was not properly exposed to information that conforms to harm reduction.
Facts. The issue now is that he's sort of been primed to that psychosis state. In my experience, this means he's more prone to falling into another psychosis at a lower dose. There was no reason to take a dose that big.

It has been said in the past that no matter how high on LSD or mushrooms a person is they should be able to state their zip code if asked.
"No matter ho high" ← much too absolute. I'll grant you: it takes a massive dose to get to a state of delirium on LSD, but make no mistake; it's very much possible and it's typically accompanied with amnesia. Mushrooms can have me so high that I'm too confused to communicate or interpret much of my external stimuli usefully, but it's not the same delirium that LSD can bring about, something I've seen maybe a half dozen times. Of them, only once did it involve violence. At a rave this guy full on punched a girl in the face with all his might, he was this giant Latino dude too with massive arms and he sucker punched this girl like he was in a UFC fight. Knocked her out cold. Dude was wiggingTF out, and it took ~5 of us to subdue the guy until the cops could get there and put him in cuffs (my buddy is a beast at Brazilian Ju Jitsu and he folded that dude up, but he was all adrenaline and it took a few of us to help hold him down. Meanwhile homegirl came to before the paramedics arrived and we insisted she go to the ER to get checked out, bc he rattled her goddamn skull piece and concussed her. Not too healthy for the brain when that happens. I never did find out how that all resolved, but that was a heavy scene to witness and be a part of with a head full of acid at the time myself.

Mushrooms can rattle my brain really hard too, but I think there's something about the dopaminergic activity of LSD that shrooms do not possess that makes LSD's delirium state much more of a psychotomimetic affair.

Anyways, @Internecion – there is nothing wrong with your husband, but given the violent delirium state he entered on LSD, if you really want to test those waters again, I would advise using at least one or two trusted trip sitters who are prepared to handle a potential delirium state. I also advise having some benzos on hand to help someone quickly exit a bad trip, but it sounds like you've got that covered. And yes, mushrooms are probably a safer choice, in my humble opinion. Good luck!
 
idk....but i would never wanna be around that guy ever again if he tripped on anything
It really kinda depends on how big that joker is and whether he looks like he'd be hell on wheels in a fight and knows what he's doing, or if he's the type that swings giant haymakers with no form or training and whether he's big enough for that to be worrisome. You know, if she's married to Brock Lesner or Cain Velasquez that's a lot different than if she's married to Mr. Bean or Elijah Wood, ya feel me?

But I know what you mean. I have a few friends that every time they use meth, after ~8 or so hours, they go into a psychosis state and start seeing the ITF (Invisible Task Force) everywhere. It's annoying, but moreover, it's unsettling, bc they start thinking about and talking about all kinds of nutty things and violence and whatnot. I'm like, yo, you are harshing the living fuck out of our vibes, homie, you gotta GTFO outta here and take your nutty ass home. Often I can just offer them a benzo and that takes them down and knocks them out. When they wake up I send em home before they get started again… goddamn trustafarians, man…

Anyway this is OP's significant other whom we don't know. Let's reserve a little judgment and not dismiss the man as being crazy. I know for sure that drug induced psychosis does not always mean something is wrong with that individual. At a certain level of booze, I'm kinda not really the same person, no longer a happy drunk but ornery, short-fused, and destructive. So I impose a two-drink limit on myself for any evening where I feel socially obligated to drink. I still enjoy a good champagne. It's celebratory. It's like the difference between a cigarette and a cigar. The cigarette is intended to be quick and functional, like a comma in the middle of the day. A cigar is celebratory; you're not in a hurry and it's more like a period at the end of your day.
 
ah that's the worst when somebody gets all paranoid doing stims - ive actually seen that way more with ppl doing coke - but then again ive never hung out with too many tweekers so i can't speak too much on that


either way - im not hanging out with them ever again either
 
...

Facts. The issue now is that he's sort of been primed to that psychosis state. In my experience, this means he's more prone to falling into another psychosis at a lower dose. There was no reason to take a dose that big.

...
hello, the point I am making is that sleep walking etc. is not quite a psychosis state, unless we are drifting into the dark ages where anything unusual is deemed psychosis.
 
btw, totally sober, I have to look up my postal code every time.
fortunately it's on my driver's license.
 
btw, totally sober, I have to look up my postal code every time.
fortunately it's on my driver's license.
Haha when I lived in Ontario I had to keep checking. The US is easier. I had heard that statement in the 1980's by one of the psychedelic greats and can't remember who. I mean I am no stranger to people flipping out on acid, so that was one of the milestones to see if someone was still present. Then of course we have things like DMT and Salvia to where I could not talk so that rule does not apply anymore.

I hope the OP and family are staying well. It took guts to post this and take the range of replies in a mature way.
 
Mushrooms can rattle my brain really hard too, but I think there's something about the dopaminergic activity of LSD that shrooms do not possess that makes LSD's delirium state much more of a psychotomimetic affair.
I've used both mushrooms and LSD hundreds of times, often in busy public settings and profoundly inadvisably high doses, and I can tell you that LSD is more "peace-inducing" for the majority of people, myself included, whereas mushrooms are a lot more likely to induce a spontaneous beatdown over something that could've easily been deescalated. If weapons are involved though, you can almost always bank on it being acid based, mushrooms are almost primal in their nature of conflict, it's some ape-vs-ape shit. I've spent a lot of time tumbling on mats with BJJ folks and mushrooms put me in that headspace immediately, acid always first makes me think "how can we deescalate this situation".

Also whoever thinks that any adequately high dose of mushrooms or LSD can't black you out/leave you unable to state your zipcode is goofy and has never pushed it to the (understandably unwise) portion of a half sheet of tabs, or 20g of mushrooms kind of dose.

It really kinda depends on how big that joker is and whether he looks like he'd be hell on wheels in a fight and knows what he's doing, or if he's the type that swings giant haymakers with no form or training and whether he's big enough for that to be worrisome. You know, if she's married to Brock Lesner or Cain Velasquez that's a lot different than if she's married to Mr. Bean or Elijah Wood, ya feel me?
This is why I advised some sober (or sober-adjacent) tripsitters for next time that are more on the Tank Abbot or Don Frye side than the Mr. Bean side of things if you know what I mean. Some tasers, telescoping batons, handcuffs, etc. don't hurt either.
But I know what you mean. I have a few friends that every time they use meth, after ~8 or so hours, they go into a psychosis state and start seeing the ITF (Invisible Task Force) everywhere. It's annoying, but moreover, it's unsettling, bc they start thinking about and talking about all kinds of nutty things and violence and whatnot. I'm like, yo, you are harshing the living fuck out of our vibes, homie, you gotta GTFO outta here and take your nutty ass home. Often I can just offer them a benzo and that takes them down and knocks them out. When they wake up I send em home before they get started again… goddamn trustafarians, man…
We must be around different tweakers man, or maybe it's just that I'm the greater threat to them? Idk? I suppose based on my former "Tank Abbot vs. Mr. Bean" spectrum I'm built more like Tank and these tweakers all look like Mr. Bean, so unless they can access some force modifiers it's not like they could do much about me teasing them that I'm an Invisible Task Force double agent after all, hahaha. I have noticed that amphetamines especially can be prone to causing people to try to fight way above their weight class and exhibit a kind of shockingly iron jaw, usually needing to be pinned and concussed/head trauma'd until they're unconscious. It's unfortunate, but much like liquor, some people simply can't hold their amphetamines. Many an iced up/sped up tweaker has caught numerous hits to the jaw from me that should've set their lights clean off if they were sober, but they just come back for another for some reason. They can be tricky to grapple too if they're all sweaty, but they're usually hyperfixated on striking and succumb to sweeps easily for some reason, in my personal experience.
 
ah that's the worst when somebody gets all paranoid doing stims - ive actually seen that way more with ppl doing coke - but then again ive never hung out with too many tweekers so i can't speak too much on that
I've seen it happen as a result of MDMA before, shit you not. My buddy Jonesy & I were at Avant Gardener in the King's Hall, Brooklyn, NY to see Test Pilot, and we each took ~220 mg MDMA. We were meeting some people there, and I'm talking to my girlfriend near the bathroom when our other friend comes up and says, yo what's up with ya mans? Who?Jonesy? Idk why? Maaaaan he's talking some straight nutty paranoid shit, what'd you guys take?

Long story short, we had to leave the place after only seeing like 20 min of the show, and it was a frustrating several hours before I could talk him into taking some etizolam to come down. Previously he had developed this whole plot about how is ex-girlfriend had hired hundreds of people to gang stalk him and she was in cahoots with his father to gaslight him and make him slowly go crazy for no apparent reason… it was tough.

either way - im not hanging out with them ever again either
Harsh. If you knew homeboy for 14 yrs like OP you might feel differently. I'd chill with him but idk about dropping any doses w/that joker w/o further assessment.

btw, totally sober, I have to look up my postal code every time.
Lol, that's hilarious. Maybe your resting state is equivalent to most people's state on a few doses… sometimes I wonder if that's true for me; I often see faint patterns even when I'm not on anything.

Some tasers, telescoping batons, handcuffs, etc. don't hurt either.
Yeah, idk, those could potentially really harsh someone's mellow, as it were. The sight of a couple giant bouncers with incapacitating weapons is intimidating. I can't co-sign that one, my guy. I also advised trip-sitters, but I think weapons are a bad idea, or at least having them in plain sight seems like a bad move.

Re: acid v. mushrooms + their effect on violence ☞ I think it matters less which compound and more how quick to violence the individuals involved are, with age, maturity and experience playing a part in it, of course. Both substances work primarily through their binding preference at the serotonin receptor subtype 5-HT2A, after all.

They can be tricky to grapple too if they're all sweaty, but they're usually hyperfixated on striking and succumb to sweeps easily for some reason, in my personal experience.
Though often stereotyped, "tweeker" is an umbrella term that encompasses many different types. Definitely must say the tweekers I know are real oddities too rare to kill off and too strange for mass production. It's a shame meth also attracts the "crackhead" types along with the stim connoisseurs, entactogen aficionados, ADHD folks, professionals working long hours at a time, those needing to stay awake and the sexually adventurous. Unfortunately those crackhead criminal fucks have really ruined crystal meth's reputation to the point that many people recoil at the mere term "crystal meth" without knowing 95% of what the drug is. They just barely know the scary bit, the 5% knowledge that if you abuse meth, you're gonna have a bad time bc it will fuck you up for this disrespect. But if done correctly, meth is a brilliant drug and an epic aphrodisiac.

Grappling martial arts are the most practical things to learn. I've seen women who study & practice grappling martial arts like BJJ, 5'6" tall, 130 lbs (170 cm, 59 kg or 9.3 stone for everyone in the sane parts of the world right now (read: non-US)) get full-grown 6'2" 215 lbs men in submission holds and force them to tap out. It's humbling to be forced to tap out by a woman who's considerably smaller than you, but that's a good thing and a testament to the power of learning martial arts, even if you're damn-near a pacifist.
 
Long story short, we had to leave the place after only seeing like 20 min of the show, and it was a frustrating several hours before I could talk him into taking some etizolam to come down. Previously he had developed this whole plot about how is ex-girlfriend had hired hundreds of people to gang stalk him and she was in cahoots with his father to gaslight him and make him slowly go crazy for no apparent reason… it was tough.
I find it obviously unethical to dose people without their knowledge, but for those in psychotic states or suicidality (without adequately understandable reason like terminal illness) I'll slip them some benzos without their knowledge, it's an invaluable tool to keep potent and flavored etizolam droppers on hand.
Lol, that's hilarious. Maybe your resting state is equivalent to most people's state on a few doses… sometimes I wonder if that's true for me; I often see faint patterns even when I'm not on anything.
A friend of mine seems to not endogenously produce MAO-A, she's essentially constantly under the effects of harmaline in her sober state. She'll describe the "kaleidoscopes behind her eyelids" and shit, it's fascinating. She doesn't use drugs at all either, which is even more interesting.
Grappling martial arts are the most practical things to learn. I've seen women who study & practice grappling martial arts like BJJ, 5'6" tall, 130 lbs (170 cm, 59 kg or 9.3 stone for everyone in the sane parts of the world right now (read: non-US)) get full-grown 6'2" 215 lbs men in submission holds and force them to tap out. It's humbling to be forced to tap out by a woman who's considerably smaller than you, but that's a good thing and a testament to the power of learning martial arts, even if you're damn-near a pacifist.
People who can grapple adequately are more dangerous than people with weapons shy of a loaded, unsafetied handgun, might even be a better fit than the armed up tripsitting goonsquad tbh. I still think that whether or not it harshes homeboy's vibe to have some sober people on deck with force modifiers like tasers or whatever, it also harshes vibes to try to murder your fucking spouse, this guy can get tf over it bro. He should find a sense of peace if anything in the presence of the aforementioned goonsquad, imo.
or at least having them in plain sight seems like a bad move.
I bet pocket-sized weapons could keep the vibe neutral? I bet the knowledge that they're there would still at least "semi-harshen" the vibe.
Re: acid v. mushrooms + their effect on violence ☞ I think it matters less which compound and more how quick to violence the individuals involved are, with age, maturity and experience playing a part in it, of course. Both substances work primarily through their binding preference at the serotonin receptor subtype 5-HT2A, after all.
I agree heavily with this, though it has a proclivity to make people who spend their entire lives responding to fight-or-flight situations with flight decide to try fight more often than not I've noticed. It's never wise, but it's a decision I've seen a ton of people make and end up getting their shit wollopped. I find it interesting too that monoamine releasers (NBXX's, amphetamines, MDXX's, etc.) will induce this behavior but reuptake inhibitors are hit-or-miss. Bupropion has made countless people "ready to kill" (their exact words, different people throughout years of me feeding randos bupropion), whereas Ritalin/4F-MPH has almost always made me people more prone to avoiding situations in the first place. Atomoxetine consistently induces the kind of psychosis where people hear voices telling them to kill and shit too, which I find pretty interesting as far as this all goes, as I'm not sure why atomoxetine and bupropion are so "mean" as NDRIs but phenidates are so "gentle", you know?

I spent 6 of the last 7 years living in areas where finding yourself in random scuffles involving dangerously mentally ill people and/or weapons with fatal potential was more common than not, so I was staying stimmed up and armed up the majority of the time, and bupropion, DOx's, psilocin, and harmaline consistently put me in the most enhanced states for that.. Mixing DOM, bupropion and meth one day without really thinking about it had me scheming to put the same mix in gel caps, get my local population of unhoused stimulant enthusiasts hooked on it, and bus them all to the home of my enemies telling them that the remaining supply was hidden in the person's ribcage or something hahaha.
 
I bet pocket-sized weapons could keep the vibe neutral? I bet the knowledge that they're there would still at least "semi-harshen" the vibe.
Personally if I had blacked out and attacked my girlfriend, I wouldn't be willing to take whatever drug did that to me, but I have a really hard time picturing this happening, bc it's not in my nature to attack people unless I'm defending myself. I guess homebizzle felt attacked perhaps, but idk, I've taken heroic doses of acid and other psychedelics and nothing like this has ever happened to me, though I have seen some bad freak-outs before.

You're defs right when you point out that attacking your significant other and banging their head against the ground multiple times is basically the worst vibe harsher of all time. I can't argue against that. It's funny you say "phenidates are so gentle", b/c the last few times I've been on Ritalin or Focalin, I wound up with a short fuse and everything was kinda irking me. It was a bad feeling, and not something I would consider "gentle". Conversely, on LSD I feel calm and gentle, so it's kind of hard for me to related to all of this. Interesting how differently various people can respond to the same drug.
 
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