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NEWS: Herald Sun - Party Drug Puts 10 in Hospital - 08/03/04

I think it is a cop out to say they didn't want Ravesafe because it causes confusion. Ravesafe know what they can deal with, and they know someone wigging out from a GHB/1,4b overdose is something for the ambulance. If Ravesafe were there at least they can redirect the patrons to the MedEvent teams, I feel most people would not have even known these MedEvent guys were there.
 
What Future could have done is print half the amount of glossy flyers for the set times, and given it to RaveSafe so that they can print drug info pamphlets which could be left at the entrance to be picked up as you get the set times.
 
The average response time with Medevent is just two minutes as there are several roving teams stationed around the venue in radio contact with security staff who have been briefed on procedure should a medical situation arise.

How was this measured? I would strongly suggest this comes from time problem was identified/reported to the time medical assistance was being applied. I'm sure it doesn't take into account the time from person being in trouble until one of his/her mates does something about it.

Following consultation with Medevent, we can confirm that there were eight transportations from our Two Tribes event, of which only five were for GBH substance abuse, rather than the 11 reported in the media. (The remainder made up of a dislocated shoulder and two non-substance related seizures.)

How many more people in addition to this where transported by their friends to a hospital? In other words have you bothered to source additional info from all local hospitals?



As far as the Ravesafe organisation is concerned, they have not been asked to attend Two Tribes events as their attendance can sometimes confuse the communication channels in case of emergency. They are not qualified to treat people where as the Medevent team are.

Bullshit, I have seen first hand on several occasions where it was a Rave Safe staff member who identified a problem before the individuals friends had done anything about it.


I do commend the organisers for having many qualified medical professionals on site but all they do is treat the end result, they are not out their trying to educate individuals so that they don't get themselves in trouble in the first place. If you want to make your events safer then you need to tackle the problem from both ends, a just say no attidude is not going to work.


As for your initiatives

Having signage at all entrances indicating that drugs are prohibited from being brought into the venue

Its been done and it sure doesn't work.

Patron searches at venue entrances

May stop some drugs from entering the venue but will create an environment where individuals take all their drugs just before coming in, possibily in far to higher doses!!!

Having qualified personnel on site warning of the dangers of taking drugs

When was the last time any of these yound adults listened to anyone regarding the taking of an illicit substance.



Once again I must stress that I'm fully supportive of any initiative thats going to create a fun and safe environment but for gods sake do it the right way and don't do it half assed.
 
I agree with Airwalk. Instead of having a sign saying, "Drugs are not allowed to be brought into the venue" or similar, they should have a sign saying: "In case of emergency the first aid team is located at...". This would be much more constructive than telling people not to take drugs, that doesn't work and they are just wiping their hands clean.
 
It must be a difficult situation for promoters: They can sell alcohol but are not permitted by law to serve intoxicated or underage persons, so the onus of responsibility rests with them to ensure nobody overdoses on alcohol. However they aren't providing the drugs and thus cannot have any control over people's drug intake. Thus they are at the mercy of people's common sense, or rather its apparent absence.

Taking a zero tolerance stance is clearly limited in its effectiveness and difficult to implement without undesirable levels of security, and to achieve harm reduction promoters are now being forced to think up strategies to impose common sense onto patrons. With whom should this responsibility lie?

BigTrancer :)
 
shorza said:
Agreed on everything except for the "more toxic" part.
Liquified GHB and 1,4b are just as dangerous/toxic as each other.

GHB is non-toxic, whereas 1,4,B has a similar toxicity as alcohol (or, correct me if I'm wrong, it's effects on the liver is comprable to alcohol). People have had massive overdoses of GHB with no ill effect, let's not forget that it is openly prescribed as a sleeping aid in many European countries because it is probably the safest substance with the least abuse potential available, also it is the only sleeping aid that does not interfere with the brains normal sleep rythems. It's only downfall being that it is a naturally occurring substance which cannot be patented by any drug company, a fact that I feel has more to do with its illegality here and in the states than its supposed use as a date-rape drug.
 
Now that G is the latest evil, I can't wait to hear the first report of someone thinking their pill contains G!!
 
From today's Herald Sun:

One in five try killer drug GHB
Patrick O'Neil and Christine Caulfield
11 Mar 2004

NEARLY one in five Victorian drug users has tried potential-killer drug GHB, a recent report found.

About 40 per cent of users told the National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre the drug was very easy to get.
The centre's spokesman, Paul Dillon, said he knew of at least six GHB-related deaths in New South Wales.

Victorian deaths were inevitable, he said.

The research found gamma hydroxybutyrate, also known as GBH or grievous bodily harm, was more readily available than the amphetamine speed and just as available as the methamphetamine ice.

Experts and users said overdoses were frequent because the drug was extremely potent in small quantities.

Mr Dillon said GHB deaths were difficult to quantify because post-mortem tests had to be performed quickly before the drug became untraceable in the body.

"The reality is that there have been more deaths than have been attributed to the drug," he said.

Eleven people overdosed on the drug at the Two Tribes dance party at Melbourne Park on Monday morning.

Life support systems were needed to keep the overdose victims alive.

Mr Dillon said orga nised crime was giving young people cheap GHB to create a market.

The drug costs less than $5 and many users consider it a cheap alternative to ecstasy.

Mr Dillon said young GHB users were at high risk of death because their friends might be too afraid to call an ambulance if they overdosed.

The news came as dance party organisers Earthcore accused the Department of Human Services of shelving a draft of safety guidelines that they said could have lowered the number of GHB overdoses at the weekend.

Earthcore co-ordinator Pip Darvall said the department drafted the guidelines after discussions with Earthcore, St John Ambulance, the Australian Drug Foundation, Vivaids and sexual-assault support groups about two years ago.

"These sort of documents might stop people taking drugs, or those drugs that might hurt them," he said.

"A draft version was produced called A Guide to Running Safe Dance Parties. I kept asking what was going on but nothing ever happened. It is a huge pity."

Mr Darvall said the report looked into ways of dealing with overdoses, drink spiking, health promotion messages and peer education.

Police, Metropolitan Ambulance Service workers and representatives of Melbourne Park last night met Future Entertainment to discuss ways of avoiding a repeat of the weekend.

Two Tribes organisers agreed to notify and consult the ambulance service before dance parties.

Future Entertainment director Jason Ayoubi said organisers would agree to have an ambulance on stand-by at big events.

The rave operators also agreed to give notice of dance parties to the Alfred and St Vincent's hospitals, so emergency wards could be prepared for drug overdoses.

Police would also have an increased visible presence at the festivals and security staff would limit the number of pass-outs to reduce the opportunity of revellers leaving the grounds and returning with drugs.

Supt Mick Williams, who chaired the meeting, said an awareness campaign educating ravers about the dangers of party drugs was imperative.

He said banning raves would not solve the problem of drug abuse among the young.

"You face more devastating consequences if you close these things down and drive them underground," he said.

Online here:
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8929809%5E2862,00.html
 
Also, in yesterday's Herald-Sun, former AFL footballer Jim Stynes wrote an editorial piece in defence of the rave scene, someone else typed it up and I've copied it here.

Some of you may have seen him there on Sunday night. His email address is at the bottom of the piece if you feel like emailing him to thank him for writing it, which I have done. :)

Herald Sun
Edition 1 - WED 10 MAR 2004,
Page 18

We can't rant about raves
By Jim Stynes

IT absolutely amazed me yesterday how society reacted to Monday morning's events at Rod Laver Arena.

As most would now know, 10 young people were taken to hospital in a serious condition from overdosing on GBH.

This drug has been doing this to people for more than 12 months, every weekend at raves and dances all over the country, yet rather than focus on the real issues we resort to demanding the Government close down such venues.

As if that's going to solve the problem.

Then I read comments from a doctor at The Alfred that his staff have to come in on weekends to treat these people and how frustrating this is and how it drains their resources.

Maybe it does drain resources but these people need help, not a negative attitude.

After all, people go to hospital with smoking related cancer -- I hope we don't treat them with this attitude.

Most people who have commented on the issue have never been to a rave.

SO if they are really concerned, then they should do their homework to learn why people are attracted to these events and why they take potentially deadly drugs such as GBH.

The claim that there were no medical people in attendance is also hogwash.

I spoke to the event organisers and there were 16 trained professionals on site, six of whom were doctors.

All the people taken to hospital were first treated by one or more of this team.

With overdoses, time is crucial, and from the first report a response team will typically be there within a minute.

GBH prevents people from breathing without a respirator so time is everything.

The key point about this is that at most dance venues there are no medical professionals, so by closing down mainstream events like Monday's, people drift back to smaller venues where the threat posed by the drug is greater.

The real problem is not the venue or the music or the type of people who are attracted it; it's much deeper than that.

The Government can close the venue and maybe get a few pats on the back, but the drug problem will still be there and these young people will still crave something more in their lives.

I was at Monday's event and was amazed at what I saw. There were 20,000 people aged from 18 to 40 celebrating and dancing together.

In many cases, they were coming together to express themselves in ways they couldn't in their normal lives.

Some were there to forget life for a while, others just to be part of something greater, to be inspired by the music.

This experience is a very tribal one where people of varying backgrounds can feel they belong, like they matter -- a feeling they may not get as many are struggling with life and its pressures.

Inevitably, many young people will experiment with drugs, but those that need to do it regularly are missing something in their lives.

SOME young people interviewed yesterday claimed overdoses happened to them and their friends every weekend. That's tantamount to saying they don't value their lives.

That's terribly sad, and it's where we need to put our focus, inspiring people to have the purpose and motivation to live life.

There is a great Australian film out in cinemas called One Perfect Day, and it deals with this very topic.

It explores choices that young people make in the rave culture and the consequences of these choices.

It is also a film that helps us understand why the events on Monday happen and the power of the music that inspires people to go.

Events and films like these have to be explored for the good and bad so we can understand the issues more clearly.

Governments have admitted that saying "no to drugs'' will inevitably create a rebellious urge in some young people to experiment.

But if we're to adopt the approach of harm minimisation, it's vital we understand what our young are thinking and feeling.

This is not a time to bury our heads in sand because it's our kids who are going to these venues and it's our responsibility to make sure they are healthy enough to make the right choices.

[email protected]
JIM STYNES is co-founder of the Reach Foundation
 
Cheers for posting those articles Hoptis, the second in particular. Its amzing how peoples opinions are skewed depending on which side of the fence they sit.
 
well, isn't this a shit situation. it's just a shame - as usual, and as with so many other things - the uneducated people give the rest of us a bad name. but fuck that, i'm not even wanting to look at it that way - it's just so frustrating that people seem to think this is such a difficult thing to figure out, when it's really not. like a lot of the people here, i've done g (1,4b :p) plenty of times, and never had a problem. if i get a new batch, i dose lower than my usual amount, to find out what it's like. plenty of times this has resulted in my first dose having little to no effect on me, but it's also meant that i've been able to figure out how much of it i can handle, and never ever even have to worry about overdosing.

i just don't understand why people take such stupid risks when a very simple procedure only needs to be put in place to prevent it.

and fuck you future - sure, they had trained medical staff on site (though no ambulances), but isn't education the key here? - something that ravesafe focuses entirely on...it's so blatantly obvious that this kind of problem is not helped at all by the scare-mongering and entirely innacurate mainstream media (and even future's horrendous "gbh" press release), and that ravesafe's approach is so so necessary, especially in such a situation.

Originally posted by Mick Bunworth
I'm a Melbourne-based reporter with the ABC's 7.30 Report who's working on a story about GBH. I'm not out to exaggerate or sensationalise its use in the dance community, but from my reading of dance music forums like this one many people agree that it's bad stuff, with a dosage that's difficult to quantify, and people should not take it.

I'm looking for anyone who's used GBH to talk on camera about it. This can be done in silhouette so that the person is not identified. Is anyone able to put me in touch with someone who's had experience with GBH ? ... I understand the sensitivity of what I'm asking so you could just give them my phone number at the ABC in Melbourne which is 9626 1423 ... otherwise they could email me – [email protected] … to arrange a meeting … thanks for your time


it's been said already, but please don't call it "gbh" for starters. this is a term entirely invented by the media (and occasionally used by the more ignorant users out there), but has no actual relevance to the drug itself. if you don't want to "exaggerate or sensationalise", then it would be a good start to cut out this kind of reference straight away :)

also...i think the thing is that most people involved in the scene really don't hate the drug - there's just a lot of people scared of it. talk to anyone who is educated about its uses, dangers and positives, and you'll generally come away with a far better opinion of ghb or (as is most prevalent in melbourne) 1,4b.

i strongly recommend that you take a read of apollo's ghb faq in this forum - here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111881&r=34 - as it's a fantastic resource for information on the drug. also, if i have the time to, i will contact you myself :)

though i think you've gotten off to an average start so far (;)), i really appreciate your efforts to at least look for an informed view on this drug, and it says a lot for your journalistic (and moral) integrity that you've gone straight to the (educated :)) horse's mouth, as opposed to the media itself. sure, there are uneducated users out there, but there's plenty of smart ones, too!

Originally posted by syntech
its disgusting to see so much misinformation in the media, and even worse, how 1,4B has become the new trendy drug.

1,4 is not a drug for the masses, and as Sllip was telling me, its hopefully gonna become the new herion. i'm glad there is so much in the news about it because it will eventually drive the drug underground.

dont get me wrong, i love the stuff, but i know the rules. most ppl dont, and thats why it shouldnt be getting around at raves. even the dealers dont know what theyre selling, and its usually concentrate.


sadly, i almost agree. though ideolistically i'd hope that everyone that wants this could have access to it (obviously disregarding its illegality here ;)), but perhaps this just isn't possible. more than anything else, perhaps this is showing that people are just too damn stupid. the resources (ravesafe, minimally; bluelight; erowid et al.) exist where people can educate themselves, but there are plenty who just don't seem to want to bother.

i'd hope that maybe this is just because of the fact that the mainstream attitude still prevails amongst -even- the majority of drug users (that drugs are bad/dangerous, and even if we take them we've just gotta hope that we don't get fucked up), and that with more significant steps towards a harm reduction attitude within society of a whole then perhaps this attitude will be changed...but maybe that's just not right? i dunno, but this is a very sad situation, for sure.

Originally posted by shorza
Agreed on everything except for the "more toxic" part.
Liquified GHB and 1,4b are just as dangerous/toxic as each other.


...or not :)

go read apollo's faq (and any of the other reference material available) - 1,4 is far worse for your liver than the very non-toxic ghb. in regards to neurotoxicity, there seems to be no definite idea of their negative effect, though the general opinion seems to be of their relative safeness (particularly when considered in comparison to, say, the neurotoxicity of meth or similar).

and btw, i'll be emailing stynes as soon as i've figured out how to thank him - his is an amazingly refreshing attitude in such a mainstream arena :)
 
My bad, liquified GHB is not as toxic as 1,4b on the liver.
Sorry for the misinformation.

Orginally from Apollo's FAQ:
2.5 How bad is it for me?
... This suggests some serious issues with 1,4-B, however studies on its effects on the human body have proven it is not a danger, unless abused. 1,4-B damages your liver and kidneys much in the same way as alcohol does, however there is a much steeper bell curve (the damage will begin with less abuse, and get out of hand easier). Don’t abuse it, and you shouldn’t encounter any side effects.
So how much 1,4b is actually bad for you? (how much is considered abuse?) If it's effect on the liver are similiar to alcohol, then, drinking 3ml of it once a week is barely toxic.
GHB and 1,4b must be as dangerous as each other, if you can overdoses and die from both chemicals. Or is GHB harder to OD on then 1,4b?

killarava2day said:
People have had massive overdoses of GHB with no ill effect
Except death perhaps?

killarava2day said:
... let's not forget that it is openly prescribed as a sleeping aid in many European countries because it is probably the safest substance with the least abuse potential available, also it is the only sleeping aid that does not interfere with the brains normal sleep rythems.
I don't believe that at all. GHB also has huge addiction and abuse potential:
Orginally from Apollo's FAQ:
... withdrawal period can be traumatising.
 
It's far better to be proactive than reactive to drug issues.

Future Entertainment's press release is a cop out.

To quote Jason Obi himself

"Future Entertainment director Jason Ayoubi said organisers would agree to have an ambulance on stand-by at big events.

The rave operators also agreed to give notice of dance parties to the Alfred and St Vincent's hospitals, so emergency wards could be prepared for drug overdoses. "

5 years too late coming from a organisation that considers themselves as the leaders of a youth movement.

geez..........
 
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Shorza- I dunno about the toxicity, I was under the impression (but could be wrong) that a dose of 1,4,B would be equvalent to getting pissed on alcohol, but don't quote me on that.

As for death, find me one case of somebody dying solely off a GHB OD. I'll wager that in every fatality there has been some mitigating factor such as other CNS depressants. I read a book (cited on erowid) that challenged a lot of the negative claims against G, the author was purported to be a Phd (can't remember what in though 8)). According to him people have taken massive overdoses to no ill-effect. It was a touch evangelical so if anyone could discredit him I wouldn't be suprised.

*edit* The book was GHB: The Natural Mood Enhancer, by Dean & Morgenthaler

As for it addictive potential, yes it is addictive but a fuck of a lot less so than benzodiazepams, the most comonly prescribed sleeping aids, and I know which one I would prefer to have to withdrawl from. You should talk to Harry@Piekarnia, over in Euro Drug Discussion, he routinely gets prescribed GHB for sleep and is quite passionate about its safety.
 
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Also, regarding the spate of overdoses, I think that if people were to water their G down 9:1 there would be a lot less scope for taking too much, rather than 1ml putting you over you would need 10ml and it wouldn't be as easy to do. That was how I used to always get my G "back in the day".
 
Saw the most fantastic T-Shirt at earthcore. It was on this chick and it said on the front "G-Whore" and on the back "Reforming Alcoholics".

Perfect timing as well, I have to get myself one.
 
killarava2day said:
Also, regarding the spate of overdoses, I think that if people were to water their G down 9:1 there would be a lot less scope for taking too much, rather than 1ml putting you over you would need 10ml and it wouldn't be as easy to do. That was how I used to always get my G "back in the day".

Great advice!

I had once found myself with an amount of pure 1,4b. The first things i did were dilute it, then colour it. I coloured it just incase it got into the wrong hands and slipped into an unsuspecting victims drink.
 
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