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NEWS: Drug prohibition doesn't work - so what do we do next?

Im willing to bet with legal Methamphetamine people will still be getting robbed and attacked. After you have been awake for a while no amount of education will have you stop falling into a crazy paranoid tweaker. You could start taking your Xanax for sleep every night which can be another beast.

Not to mention all the fat people who will go straight for the Meth for its fantastic weight loss abilities. It will come back and they can be warned of this but they won't listen. It's a nice quick fix and in todays world a quick fix is what people want.

"In North America, around 90 per cent of adults report using caffeine every day."
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18725181.700

A replacement for a mild drug like caffeine will catch on.
 
Busty St Clare said:
Why? Because the governent wouldn't tax the shit out of them to pay for an increase in public health spending? Even weed would come with a growers licence of at least $500, not unlike the rego for the car.

Maybe I'm not bothered by your arguments because I pay more tax than you earn in a year and would prefer this to be spent on roads that I use and not the PBS Herion that I do not. The health system should exist for those who can not help themselves not those who help themselves. The point of any policy should be to eliminate addiction not feed it.
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You're paying a lot more for the jails and drug squad salaries than you ever would for a heroin maintainance program, not to mention the flow on costs from things like increased insurance premiums from the higher crime rates! Yeah, the status quo is awesome, I'm glad it's you paying it and not me =D
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chemi said:
bitpattern and BustyStClare, please both refrain from personal insults, let's have a decent discussion.
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For the record, my initial use of the term 'fucktard', which riled Ms. St. Clare so much, was a general, and not personal, insult.
 
static_mind said:
Im willing to bet with legal Methamphetamine people will still be getting robbed and attacked. After you have been awake for a while no amount of education will have you stop falling into a crazy paranoid tweaker. You could start taking your Xanax for sleep every night which can be another beast.

Not to mention all the fat people who will go straight for the Meth for its fantastic weight loss abilities. It will come back and they can be warned of this but they won't listen. It's a nice quick fix and in todays world a quick fix is what people want.

"In North America, around 90 per cent of adults report using caffeine every day."
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18725181.700

A replacement for a mild drug like caffeine will catch on.
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Meth is the one real pitfall in my idea of what regulation could look like, for the life of me I can't think a way around how to provide it without causing problems, it's a real prick of a drug. I know it's a double standard, and a potential 'slippery slope', but maybe just keep the shit illegal and hope that people attracted to it would be satisfied with being able to source things like MDMA legally than trying to get meth on the black market.

Psilo - You've read the blueprint, what did they say about meth?
 
bit_pattern said:
For the record, my initial use of the term 'fucktard', which riled Ms. St. Clare so much, was a general, and not personal, insult.
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Pretty sure busty is a dude, dude ;)

You are right about the taxes he pays now

Surprised you can't see that one busty?

I work my fucking ass off and pay more tax each week than a large % of people I know can earn in a week

For the record, the roads are shit!

The amount of tax going to fight the drug war and keep non violent offenders in jail is a joke

I would much rather the lower amount it would cost to prescribe heroin, educate users etc

Paying so much tax, seeing our shitty roads and this stupid drug war really piss me off :!
 
^^ I should probably get around to d/ling and reading it for myself. I only heard a program on Radio National, and had a look at the website.

Pretty sure busty is a dude, dude
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Yeah, I figured that, but I don't want to think about the real Busty as a guy, that would spoil at least one fantasy ;)

And taxes, think about the revenue that could be gained from licensing less harmful drugs like pot and MDMA, you could conceivably see people paying fewer taxes with a sensible regulation regime! :D
 
I can see meth being a huge problem too. I can see it being very attractive in our workaholic, sleep deprived culture - I think many people - perhaps especially those 'productive' members of society who want to fit a few extra hours of work in a day - would find the benefits of meth particularly appealing. The danger also lies in that meth use in the beginning feels benign - and many of the negatives don't occur until later, by which stage the person is addicted and the health and mental side effects start getting severe. This is one case where I think low purity can be beneficial - I personally find pure ice so much more addictive than the cut methamphetamine 'speed'. What would happen if pure meth was available at the local chemist? The pull of high purity methamphetamine is incomparable to speed. I think the results could be disasterous for many people. This drug is progressively destructive unlike opiates which can be quite safe to be on long term as long as dosages are of known purity and regular. I see a lot of problems here and I too am interested in any proposals that have been put forth to deal with meth in a legalised drug world.
 
^^ Maybe keep it illegal but give registered addicts access to other amphetamines on prescription for maintenance?

I really don't know the answer to this one tbh
 
bit_pattern said:
^^ I should probably get around to d/ling and reading it for myself. I only heard a program on Radio National, and had a look at the website.



Yeah, I figured that, but I don't want to think about the real Busty as a guy, that would spoil at least one fantasy ;)

And taxes, think about the revenue that could be gained from licensing less harmful drugs like pot and MDMA, you could conceivably see people paying fewer taxes with a sensible regulation regime! :D
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Does this fantasy involve some sort of opioid induced orgy? If so I'm not that sort of broad ;)

Suddenly it has turned into an apartheid drug users system, aren't there any sensible meth users out there? If there was a licence I can't see the users who rob for their habit now actually bothering to pay for one. The black market will still exist as it does now for chop chop (illegal home grown tobacco).

I don't see many of my professional colleagues signing up for a addict register considering they would lose their jobs and be struck off. Once again the black market will be their best option.
 
Footscrazy I see what your saying about not wanting other people to go through what you have but really people have to have the freedom to make their own mistakes. I think its better to give people freedom to do as they wish, along with education and put alot of effort into treatment for those who need it. This is a much better solution than outright banning an activity most can control. Also, sometimes mistakes can be positive in a sense, mistakes form who you are as much as any other experiences in your life, if not more so. You may be a totally different person than the one you are today if it weren't for some of your experiences, I suppose only you can judge if thats a good thing or a bad thing but I don't think its the Governments place to deny other life experience.

Chemi, your seat belt example isn't the best. Personally I disagree with the laws because I think its just revenue raising. There is no good reason to choose not to wear a seatbelt over wearing one, you are safer wearing one and you gain literally nothing by not wearing one. I don't think laws should enforce common sense, that is up to the individual to decide but this is an entirely different argument. Seatbelts and drug laws aren't really comparable because where one is enforcing a safety precaution, drug laws create danger via creating a black market and destroying innocent drug users lives.

I agree that it is perfectly legitimate for a smoker to advise others not to smoke, it is however not acceptable for a smoker to use harsh punishments as a deterrant for others not to smoke. Also, a key difference is that a smoker has the experience to relate to the non smoker. The Government has no experience and very little useful information on drugs, they just push misinformation to support their contention that all illicit drugs are bad.

Bit Pattern, I have been nodding in agreement to all your posts up until you say meth should remain illegal, what the hell man? Haven't you just contradicted like half the points you have made about why all drugs should be legal by making an exception? Thats just silly imho. Other than that I agree with pretty much everything you have posted.

Personally I think that they should trial making other amphetamines like dexamphetamine and the like more available and much cheaper than meth. This would probably be enough of a deterrant for the casual user to just stick with the softer amphetamines. Ofcourse some people will still choose to use meth and some of these people will develop problems with it. The best solution is to put lots of time and research into addiction treatment and make it widely available.

One thing that nobody has really discussed is the reduced stigma of being a drug addict. Much as many people view alcoholism as a normal, everyday issue and often sypathise with alcoholics, if drugs were legal I would expect a gradual shift towards a similar attitude towards drugs. I would hope that with widespread information the stigma with addiction of all kinds could disappear. Assuming this happened I think that it would mean a more people would seek help for their addiction problems alot sooner. There is no doubt in my mind the social stigma of being branded an addict is a big deterrant to many needing treatment.
 
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Cue song "those damn blue collar tweakers" by PRIMUS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1C2SFrwdq0 :)

I've seen them out at Soco
They're pounding sixteen penny nails
The truckers on the interstate
Have been known to ride the rails
The sweat is beating on the brow
Can't keep these fellas down
'Cause those damned blue-collared tweekers
Are runnin' this here town

I knew a man who hung drywall
He hung it mighty quick
A trip or two to the blue room
Would help him do the trick
His foreman would pat him on the back
Whenever he would come around
'Cause these dammed blue-collar tweekers
Are beloved in this here town

Now the union boys are there
To protect us from all the corporate type
While curious George's drug patrol
Is out here hunting snipe
Now they try to tell me different
But you know I ain't no clown
'Cause those damned blue-collar tweekers
Are the backbone of this town

Now the flame that burns twice as bright
Burns only half as long
My eyes are growing weary
As I finalize this song
So sit back and have a cup o' joe
And watch the wheels go round
'Cause those damned blue-collar tweekers
Have always run this town

THE LYRICS SAY IT ALL AND GREAT SONG TO BOOT!
 
Drug Mentor, I think I have made it clear that I agree people should be able to make their own mistakes and that my comments are not directed against legislation. Rather I'm trying to point out the unhelpful black and white thinking (eg. all drug users who don't want legislation are hypocrites) people on each side of the fence often seem to have.
 
^ Yeah I know, I adressed your comment but what I said wasn't really aimed at you specifically, just clarifying my opinion on the subject because you put across a point of view I wasn't really considering in my original post.
 
People who want to stay awake for days without sleep in our 24/7 society and do so without taking the legal and health risks of using an illicit substance can procure modafinil.

If drugs were legalised, it's hard to see extreme substances like crystal meth being sold openly by any government. When you look at alcohol regulation, even though it's legal, there are guidelines around what can be served to the public and it would be the same with stimulants. Methampethamine is like the Jagermeister of stimulants.

If pharmaceutical companies poured the money (and they would surely love to) into new recreational drugs that alcohol companies did into researching new drinks, they'd uncover a cornucopia of substances that could belong on the spectrum somewhere between caffeine and pure meth.

Yes, in our culture there are still people who will go out and drink Jager shot after Jager shot until they black out, but most drinkers do not, and if illicit drugs were legalised, most people wouldn't do the same with stimulants.
 
Having landed a nice stash of Ritalin over the weekend, I know my urge to fiend for speed will be quelled for at least the next few weeks. Which is perfect, considering I've resolved to taper off the illicit stims anyhow :D

Ice has gone bye-bye, again, for as long as I can imagine. Oddly enough, I only really find it fun to toy with once in a blue moon. There is minimal joy in having a hole burnt in one's pocket, for the sake of twirling a crackpipe.... 8)

And if it were government regulated? Meh, probably still wouldn't be enough to tempt me. But I know a lot of people who would think and act otherwise. For a stim-lover, breaking from shards is definitely mind over matter, but not everyone in that category can be entrusted to make decisions of a 'sound mind' - and as I'm certain everyone here full-well knows, abusing psychostimulants is just playing with fire, in that respect.
 
Knowing your history of the drug war is important. As it has been stated before (somewhere, by someone) freedom is the issue. The war on drugs was started in the US in the '30's because of a fear of Mexican cannabis smoking immigrants (Bracero program - google it) getting wasted and defiling white women. Falsehoods perpetuated to discriminate against Mexicans in the US. From there, the racist policies just got more in depth and the prisons started filling up with, surprise, a huge percentage of people of colour. Nixon made cannabis illegal in the 70's. Now, few politicians will stand up and say "STOP, this isn't working" even though every US government agency agrees that it has failed; supply is up, prices are down, quality is better. So, the war rages on and personal freedoms continue to get more and more eroded...

If you are in doubt, read the post earlier in this thread from the LA Times. Great article, addresses so many of the issues in a very articulate and intelligent way... FREEDOM! The criminal justice system is here to protect us from others, not ourselves.
 
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How does everyone feel about medical/pharmaceutical drugs entering the market despite not having passed/failed clinical trials?
 
People keep stating that some users will take drugs to help keep them active and work longer hours etc... I think with legalising drugs and regulating them, that more workplaces will bring in drug codes like the place I work at.

I cannot come to work with any drug in my system, from alcohol to heroin. I have to even tell our PA if I'm taking headache tablets. Because i work in an environment that must be maintained in a safe manner.

If drugs were made legal, then I guess all workplaces will bring in similar codes so you wouldnt be able to rock up to work stoned off your head, or high as a kite. You'd be told to go home, and you wouldnt get paid.

WHy do people constantly think everyone is going to get messed off their heads and be unproductive. If you do this, you wont get paid and wont be able to buy your drugs.

I think that with random workplace drug tests in the majority of workplaces would be a good idea.

ALthough with things like marijuana staying in your system for up to 30 days, and MDMA staying in for 3-5 days etc, it might make people use less than they want to.

I still think drugfree workplaces and legalising drugs could go hand in hand.
 
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