amanitadine
Bluelighter
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DPMC Moderators: tryptakid
"New Internet drug kills 14 swedes" (5-IT)
- Thread starter amanitadine
- Start date
amanitadine
Bluelighter
Can't really say this is too surprising, this drug was a disaster in waiting, a moreish serotonergic stimulant, weird pharmacodynamics, fat soluble, un- researched, and released in the post Mephedrone wake? Fucking idiotic. . . .
Didn't see any mention of this, my apologies if this has already been linked to, nor any mention of this in the big and dandy 5-IT thread. Harm reduction and all. . . .
Didn't see any mention of this, my apologies if this has already been linked to, nor any mention of this in the big and dandy 5-IT thread. Harm reduction and all. . . .
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Those anyone know what the death would have been like for these people or the symptoms? Just passing out? Or something worse like heart attack or respitory arrest?
Oh, I read now that it's similar to MPA, which is what probably what almost killed me. I took 1 gram without a tolerance plus nearly 500 mg of ethylpidline, which probably made it worse. Propably died of the same stimulant overdose like effects I had, loss of speech and muscle control, hypertension, rapid heartbeat, and heavy breating.
Seems like all these stimulant type drugs, AMT, Benzofury, MPA, etc. leads to many deaths.
Oh, I read now that it's similar to MPA, which is what probably what almost killed me. I took 1 gram without a tolerance plus nearly 500 mg of ethylpidline, which probably made it worse. Propably died of the same stimulant overdose like effects I had, loss of speech and muscle control, hypertension, rapid heartbeat, and heavy breating.
Seems like all these stimulant type drugs, AMT, Benzofury, MPA, etc. leads to many deaths.
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edgarshade
Bluelighter
5-IT is now available in many countries now. How come only Sweden manages to pull 14 deaths out of a hat for the media to report and justify a ban? If it were really that toxic there would be more deaths everywhere it is currently sold.
I don't know much about 5-IT other than what I've read on the big-and-dandy bluelight thread but something just doesn't ring true about this Swedish report. As far as I can tell it is an entactogen, it's been around for at least 10 years already, and I haven't read of any experiences from people saying they nearly died on the stuff.
I don't know much about 5-IT other than what I've read on the big-and-dandy bluelight thread but something just doesn't ring true about this Swedish report. As far as I can tell it is an entactogen, it's been around for at least 10 years already, and I haven't read of any experiences from people saying they nearly died on the stuff.
23536
Bluelight Crew
I don't have detailed toxicology results, but 10 of the 12 decedents also had other drugs in their system. Were any of these other drugs serotonergic, or MAOIs?
Also, was the 5-IT distributed in pre-packaged doses that may have been too large?
I'm assuming 5-IT is primarily serotonergic.
Also, was the 5-IT distributed in pre-packaged doses that may have been too large?
I'm assuming 5-IT is primarily serotonergic.
ro4eva
Bluelighter
Sad to read something like this. It's painfully obvious that more and more of us are turning to legal highs - substances which tend to carry (in some cases, much) more risk of short and/or long term damage to our vital organs than their illegal counterpart they're intended to mimic - to satisfy our desire to feel good in one way or another. I believe that if said illegal substances such as MDMA, Marijuana and the like had remained legal to this day, there would be no such thing as 5-IT (among many others) readily available as a legal high. Alas, we still live in an age of double-standards where alcohol and tobacco are condoned even though they are the cause of countless deaths worldwide every day, but God forbid you're caught using anything else without a prescription. God forbid you're caught with a couple grams of weed in your car in certain states and you'll likely make an appearance on a soon to be featured episode of COPS (Saturdays on Fox).
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amanitadine
Bluelighter
Yeah I saw that too, regarding the mixed intoxication. 5-IT, by it's structure, and by user reports, is indeed believed to primarily serotonergic. People really seem to vary in how they respond to it, and as we all know "serotonin syndrome", a term much bandied about, is pretty much a roll of the dice in which genetics is believed to play a huge role. The Scandinavians always seem to get deep into fatality territory ages before their western European counterparts. I should make clear that I am just remarking on their desire to party, not some predisposition to croak. All the craziness also seems to getbthese substances scheduled in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark ages before anywhere else. Curious for more details, this seems rather odd, but I won't be surprised.
NeighborhoodThreat
Bluelight Crew
Yeah if they had other drugs in their system...who's to say they weren't mixing stimulants.
Let's wait for all the facts to get in - if that information is ever released. Still scary to think about this stuff killing people already, as I know its recently sparked an interest in other parts of Europe as other stimulant RCs are scheduled/controlled.
Let's wait for all the facts to get in - if that information is ever released. Still scary to think about this stuff killing people already, as I know its recently sparked an interest in other parts of Europe as other stimulant RCs are scheduled/controlled.
Why do the first deaths from RCs always happen in Sweden? I wonder if it has something to due with Sweden's zero tolerance drug policy. Sweden's generally regarded as a very progressive country, but their drug policy is as bad as the USA's, in some ways worse. For example cops can bust into your house and arrest you for having used. With doctors, though privacy usually applies, they can snitch on drug users under certain circumstances. In the US they at least usually get you with public intoxication or DUI, not having metabolites in you home. Also doctor's usually can't snitch on you for using. This has resulted in Sweden having one of the highest death rates among drug users in Europe.
Fresco
Bluelighter
Wow!!!
Roger&Me
Bluelight Crew
Well in more than one thread about 5-IT, I warned that it looked like shit based on what we know of tryptamine SAR. IIRC some people were actively arguing with me about that, and I was just like "whatever"...
I hate to have such a childish response, but I feel like going like this:
and saying "I told ya so!"
I hate to have such a childish response, but I feel like going like this:
and saying "I told ya so!"
atara
Bluelighter
500 deaths in Sweden? I've heard nothing of the sort -- that would make RCs as deadly as opiates, per capita. That doesn't seem likely.
I suppose we should advise people to avoid 5-IT. This is worse than most of the recent RCs or even bromo-dragonfly; we could have a new 5-MeO-AMT on our hands. Though it strikes me as a bit odd that there were 14 people who died before anybody raised an alarm... and all in such a little country. Perhaps there's a contaminated batch?
I suppose we should advise people to avoid 5-IT. This is worse than most of the recent RCs or even bromo-dragonfly; we could have a new 5-MeO-AMT on our hands. Though it strikes me as a bit odd that there were 14 people who died before anybody raised an alarm... and all in such a little country. Perhaps there's a contaminated batch?
rangrz
Bluelighter
How can a drug be a product of, or exist within/be used by a large set of interconnected computer networks/it's protocols and abstraction layers? Sloppy language is sloppy.
23536
Bluelight Crew
^let's see you write that in Swedish!
Paddington
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2008
- Messages
- 12
I am a Swede.
I have used 5-it maybe like 30 times in doses from 80-150 mg, in the latter region you can feel that temperaturecobtrol is affected by the substance and you can be a bit disorientated during onset. If theese effects are linear in higher doses I'd say it is a question of overdosing.
Onset needs like 2 hours, and in Sweden people are made to believe that all legal things are harmless and therefore I could easily see users getting dissapointed after an hour, and taking the rest of the 1000mg batches sold in sweden in lack of better knowledge.
Now everyone is saying that 5-IT is lethal, destroys the liver, kidneys, and so forth. But if all tragical deaths were overdoses on a lowdose-drug that gets toxic at a certain dose or interaction, it is really nothing but people lacking respect for rc's in combination with a new substance with oddly slow onset and little information that is the the real problem making this weird and scary thing even possible.
If any one at Bluelight could give source of info proving that 5-IT is toxic, potentially harmful to your liver or has other abnorm undesired effects that even if dosed properly/conservatively, it would be worth....lives!!
I would post it on the swedish forum were people using the substance with caution are sceptical and still use it. It would be tragic if the substance is toxic even under conservative use, and I cant find any sources at all.
Patrik, Sweden
I have used 5-it maybe like 30 times in doses from 80-150 mg, in the latter region you can feel that temperaturecobtrol is affected by the substance and you can be a bit disorientated during onset. If theese effects are linear in higher doses I'd say it is a question of overdosing.
Onset needs like 2 hours, and in Sweden people are made to believe that all legal things are harmless and therefore I could easily see users getting dissapointed after an hour, and taking the rest of the 1000mg batches sold in sweden in lack of better knowledge.
Now everyone is saying that 5-IT is lethal, destroys the liver, kidneys, and so forth. But if all tragical deaths were overdoses on a lowdose-drug that gets toxic at a certain dose or interaction, it is really nothing but people lacking respect for rc's in combination with a new substance with oddly slow onset and little information that is the the real problem making this weird and scary thing even possible.
If any one at Bluelight could give source of info proving that 5-IT is toxic, potentially harmful to your liver or has other abnorm undesired effects that even if dosed properly/conservatively, it would be worth....lives!!
I would post it on the swedish forum were people using the substance with caution are sceptical and still use it. It would be tragic if the substance is toxic even under conservative use, and I cant find any sources at all.
Patrik, Sweden
Limitbreaker
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 13, 2011
- Messages
- 487
Huh? That is utter bullshit. How comes you guys have completely opposite reactions to this compound? Just cause some people overdosed and we don't know many details at all it doesn't mean the chemical is bad.
ro4eva
Bluelighter
Agreed, it doesn't necessarily mean the chemical is bad, however, it means that we don't know enough about said chemical to have a bunch of us unanimously agree on what likely caused their deaths, therefore, for the sake of harm reduction, I also suppose we should advise people to avoid 5-IT or at the very least tread lightly in terms of dosage if you're still gonna try it (edit - and also try to avoid mixing/combinations).
P.S. - Even though we may not all have degrees in toxicology, biology and/or chemistry, most of us have something "they" don't: lots and lots of first hand experience in general. Perhaps not specifically with 5-IT, but indubitably with the same class of drugs and/or derivatives. Not that I'm proud of it, just saying.
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Paddington
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2008
- Messages
- 12
As far as there are only sources claiming od's as cause, or intoxication, there is really no logic in labeling 5-IT as a killer. If you get drunk on 50 cl of vodka and try 150 cl you will probably end up in the same place as with 5-IT.
Yet, there has to be some scince done, empirically or theoretically that coul rule out or acknowledge if it is harmful also in lower doses and in what way. Ofvall the cases described in sweden of amputations and deaths, none claim that the victim had taken a "safe" dose or denied overdose.
Yet. But since everyone that has used and enjoyed this totally remarkably nice substance has hars to believe that it is a poison, many are still doing it.
Therefore it would be sad to slow up the deliverance of facts on actual toxicity of this compound, in lower doses (< 200mg appr.).
Yet, there has to be some scince done, empirically or theoretically that coul rule out or acknowledge if it is harmful also in lower doses and in what way. Ofvall the cases described in sweden of amputations and deaths, none claim that the victim had taken a "safe" dose or denied overdose.
Yet. But since everyone that has used and enjoyed this totally remarkably nice substance has hars to believe that it is a poison, many are still doing it.
Therefore it would be sad to slow up the deliverance of facts on actual toxicity of this compound, in lower doses (< 200mg appr.).