Need advice tapering from kratom after opiate WD

[SunSpot]

Moreaux your luck with washers just made me a bit jealous! And smile too We have five kids who love to get dirty, so the washer has been running nearly every day for 5 years!! Plus my wife always overloaded it8) It cost 1000 bucks new so it should've held up longer imo. And this nasty brown rust fluid leaked out the back of the drum and coated everything. Plus taking apart a washing machine smells like month-unwashed homeless person, I had no idea! (no disrespect intended, I know how I smell after backbacking for a while). Parts of the bearings were so rusted into place I had no idea they weren't welded there on purpose, but I did just remove most of that and tons and tons more of rust. 2 new bearings might fit in there after all, but this time sealed with lead. Ok I should tell noone I seal stuff w/ lead, that's probably not very socially acceptable anymore! But it just works so well .. And detergent washes grease away. Not lead.

Ok scratch that, I'll use watertight boat epoxy, the white and grey stuff. First clean everything with 30% HF, etch the surfaces a little, then epoxy those suckers in place. That's never failed me before either. Then treat the shaft and rubber seal with a thick layer of rain-x polymer to keep everything dry. It'll be the indestructible washing machine

On other news my body feels like it's 90 years old again, yay! Plus fever, teary eyes, endless sneezing, all the good stuff. Could be much worse though, and my arm is loads better. I wonder omg0mg, did you ever start your own krat taper?

And Opi-Dawg, I need water pills for renal hypertension. Should get back on them, extreme sports wasn't kind to my body.

 

[Moreaux]

Lol. The set I had I had purchased back in 1998 when I was a university student. It cost $800, and was indestructible. I ended up selling it 15 years later for $400. I used to run it everyday because I had an insane number of cats (9), and had cleaning towels and rags to cleanup after them as I couldn't afford to use paper towels for the messes. All problems with that washer were directly related to cat fur getting stuck where it shouldn't lol. It got to the point I could take that washer apart in the dark, it was a very simple design so I learned it quickly and would just do maintenance every quarter on it so it would break after it had filled with water. I lived alone until recently, so being 5'2 and 110 lbs it was very difficult to maneuver when it was full of water, so it was easier to just clean the problem areas on schedule instead of waiting for it to break.

The washer we have now is fancy and has all these computerized components and sensors (I don't particularly care for it, but I couldn't justify keeping my set over something newer and more advanced, and honestly I haven't seen where it does a better job). It seems these sensors have issues periodically, so I have to stand there and count the flashing light and look up the code to see the point of failure. Knock on wood I've been able to fix it, but one of these days I think I'll end up having to order parts, and I think I would have to go through a repair place to do so and the price will be overly bloated :/

Your situation - there is nothing wrong with using lead as long as it's totally contained. I keep lead solder around for specific repair jobs as well. It works great and is so easy to use. If you're going to be dealing something where he water is leaving the machine, use the lead as its on its way out and should in theory be filtered out at the water treatment plant as lead is a very heavy metal, but you may want to call them to ensure they do filter out lead first. Otherwise, boat epoxy is also a great option. The rain-x polymer is a brilliant idea, I wish I would have thought of that for other repairs that I did in my old house. I have to at I enjoy the way you think. I don't meet too many people that do repair work themselves. I have always enjoyed the problem solving and money savings doing work myself. My husband is the same way. We're actually getting ready to bypass the zoning board for our AC because we have a room over the garage that has its own thermostat, but for some reason the board keeps failing and I think it's pointless to keep buying new ones when we can bypass it. I don't know why we even have it as its one room.

Sorry your not feeling great right now - at least it's temporary. Stay strong and it will be over with before you know it. It takes a lot of strength and perseverance to make it this far. I give you mad props while going through this and maintaining a family.

 

[SunSpot]

Hi Moreaux, wow I admire you too! I'm assuming you're a girl, which makes that fix-it attitude even more awesome. Or you could also be a guy married to a husband, that's fine too! As for the lead, yes it surely is useful stuff, and safe too, if the water is alkaline. Only with a pH below 7 or low dissolved solids are you in trouble. But I think boat epoxy and a good prior hydroflouric etch will work even better. Now if i could just get out that last remnant of inner ball bearing that's still stuck in the drum! Tried beating it with steel bar and wrecking hammer, that just blunted the bar and the angle is bad. Torching it won't work well as there's plastic. My trusty brake fluid / acetone mix didn't penetrate. All that's left is to get some liquid nitrogen, or barring that, make some -80C acetone with dry ice.

I'm feeling (again) much better at present, ibu is helping, but the night and morning were rough. Lots and lots of pain, 6 on that scale. Bit through a family heirloom wooden spoon I'll glue it when I mix the epoxy for the washer though Did get 7 hours of some kind of sleep but I'm ashamed to have used diethyl ether for that. What is it with me and the lab chemicals atm?? At least it's only an anesthetic dissociative and hasn't triggered any more cravings (stupid nicotine), maybe even lessened them. Besides the atrocious smell I've always regarded lab grade ether as a really kind, safe material. Unless you sniff at work and accidentally set yourself on fire! (happened to a post-doc in the chemistry department. it wasn't the official story though ..)

It really is cruel punishment to come down with nerve pain while quitting something that kills pain!! But my kids found a bag of gummi bears I hid a few weeks ago and actually brought half the bag to me. it was deep in a bathroom drawer. So I'll munch on those and count my blessings!

 

[Moreaux]

Lol - yeah, I'm a girl. My Mom was bed ridden when I was a child (ages 2 - 10) so I spent all my time with my Dad. He used to love to work on cars, and he was in the Marine Corps so I was fortunate to be able to go to work with him before I started school. I learned a lot about cars, guns, and tactical equipment as a kids, and never grew out of it. I started fixing stuff when I was young, and later went into computers.

I have a fascination with chemicals as well, pharmaceutical, industrial, etc. I recently picked up another chemistry class and I realized how much I missed it. I e been thinking about a career change and getting another degree, just haven't made up my mind yet. What I enjoy is that I'm a girly girl so people never expect me to be technically proficient and I enjoy their reactions when they realize I'm both knowledgable and capable.

I think the acetone and dry ice sounds fun, at least if I had that option set for a task that's what I would go with. They're both relatively benign for use indoors imo. I'm assuming you wouldn't be doing it with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth lol.

Ether is pretty forgiving - I wouldn't feel bad about using it to get through withdrawals. I've known people who hve tried far more dangerous stuff and then they either end up in the hospital or with a secondary addiction. I know when benzo PAWS hit I tried the JHW line to ease the symptoms but then transitioned to weed as the napathelene ring was really creeping me out since I was smoking it. Getting totally sober is a process and sometime you have to choose the lesser of two evils to continue forward.

Regarding your nerve pain, I wouldn't be surprised if it's more intense since you are quitting pain killers. The body seems to rebound for a while, so everything is more sensitive. When I got sober I had lost perception of regular body signals such as hunger as I was always on something and generally didn't feel to much. It kept happening and I didn't realize I was hungery. After about a week I went to my doctor...I'm by no means a stupid person, but I felt pretty ridiculous being diagnosed with hunger pangs. It's been a few years since that incident, but I still have to consciously think about it when I get them. I'll go through periods of thinking I have an upset stomach and not eating so it doesn't get worse only to realize it's happening because I'm not eating. Benzos really did a number on my biofeedback interpretation. The only benefit is that it keeps my weight on the low side lol.

That's awesome your kids saved some of the gummi bears for you! Too funny you hid them in the bathroom. Those really help in early recover - I hoovered huge quantities of those, nerds, and snickers bars in early recovery. It was a progression starting with snickers and then down to the sugar candy. My parents actually bought me cotton candy maker so I could save money because I was buying so much candy. That thing was a life saver, though I'm lucky I didn't eat myself into diabetes lol. Eventfully the candy cravings went away, though thinking about gummy bears sounds really good right now. I've been confined to bed because of surgery on both feet and have been eating chocolate chip peanut butter macro bars all day for the last two days lol.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Hi all,

it's been 15 days since my cold turkey from pod / seed tea, i just knew I was done with it. Obviously the first 10 days were hell on earth, and I caved in and started taking kratom to get some sleep and function. But I'm disgusted with myself for it, i want to be sober!! I'm already taking as little kratom as possible, just enough so my headache is merely 'severe' and not debilitating (I'm also taking ibuprofen but that has lost effectiveness). Does anyone have some tips for tapering from kratom? Should I just cold turkey that too? I know I'd go back into instant WD, i already keep the kratom so low i'm always on the edge of chills. Also, my blood pressure is still dangerously high, 120 to 180ish (I've always had high pressure though not this high, despite eating well, being slim and healthy otherwise. Have a bad kidney). Perhaps I should go to my doctor with it again, but last time no one seemed to know how to get blood pressure down when one kidney is scarred except with pills, and those just make things worse in the long run imo. ok now i'm just ranting but i would really love to hear how someone else has come off a major oral opiod addiciton. the closest to pod tea withdrawal seems to be methadone, if so it looks like i'll have loads more time to enjoy the after effects of living like a cotton-wrapped zombie for so long.

i guess what I'm asking is: should I CT the kratom or taper out slowly? At the end of summer, which method will have me feeling better??

I'm a firm believer in the loooong sloooow taper. I've had huge success this way.

 

[Moreaux]

I'm a firm believer in the loooong sloooow taper. I've had huge success this way.

^this. Getting sober isn't a race. I believe you do less damage and have less misery with a slow taper. I didn't have the luxury of a taper from benzos and 6 years later am still healing. Everything else Inhave tapered and in my opinion that made all the difference in the world, and increased my chances for lasting sobriety.

 

[SunSpot]

Good morning everyone, yes a long slow taper sounds just fine right now as it v would be a rationalization (for me) to keep using. Tapers are just not for me ( mostly). But I'm still PROUD! Today is 30 days clean from opiates, 5 from heavy vaping and 50+ hrs from kratom. As usual, my hike yesterday in beautiful mother nature helped make me feel better, though it took a while.

I only need to make it a few more days, then it's off backpacking in costa rica! That should be plenty distracting from this stupid head space. Btw it was really sad: for someone who loves to travel i did exactly none of that when using. The last time was last summer's EU trip with my two year old, where i took tons of kratom. Coming home marks the beginning of my heavy use. After that i obviously didn't want to fly with opium .. Being sober has advantages!!

 

[Opi-Dawg]

Hey SunSpot, how are you doing at this point? I'm sure it's been no fun the last few days but hopefully it will only get better from here. Hope you are well.

 

[SunSpot]

Hi Opi, it could be worse, thanks for asking. Two days ago i was in hell. But I'm six days nicotine free and over a month with the opiods. Too bad kratom has me back, but it was that or intense suffering.

I feel really down about that actually. My weight gain as i sit around unable to exercise, constantly hungry for sugar isn't helping. Sorry I'm feeling kind of blue I'll stop now. If only the insomnia werent back, quitting nicotine made me so tired for a few days i actually got six hours w/o any pills. After this night I'm back to an unrestful 4 hours WITH sleep aids, i can just feel it.

Another thing, i tried fasting this morning, fasting being something i loved to do. A 20kV electric fence couldn't have given me a better lesson, i won't be doing that again in a hurry. Byebye beach body for this season;(

 

[Opi-Dawg]

Don't beat yourself up to bad, I think we've all been there at some point or another. You will still get there and now you know more what to expect. Have you considered loperamid (Imodium) instead of kratom to taper off of? I only mention it because it helps with the body withdrawals but not the mind, this is b/c it is an opiod but only attaches to receptors in the gut not the ones in the brain so there isn't a 'high' from it. It is much easier to taper off of imo because of this. If you consider it just don't start with a dose to high and stick to a taper schedule (much easier than others). It's not going to take away all withdrawal symptoms but may at least help you to get some sleep while your brain adjusts to no opiate or opiate-like substance. Just a suggestion, works for some but (like most things) not for everyone.

Or you could go to the doc and ask for help and maybe get a script for clonidine or gabapentin to ease the withdrawals. I decided I an going to the doc tomorrow to see if I can get something. Just have to make up an excuse to tell the wife why I am going but oh well, it's come to this I guess. Hope you get beyond this my friend.

 

[SunSpot]

Opi, i was past most of the withdrawals, i could feel how things we're getting better. Then I developed nerve pain in my right arm, probably after sleeping wrong from insomnia. It's been growing more painful for6 days now and is the reason I'm on krat again. At least i can dress myself once more, that was quite a blow to my ego.

I'm also down because this ruins my nicely planned trip that's coming in 4 days, which i meant to use to kind of celebrate sobriety. So no white water rafting, zip lining, maybe not even hiking. No paragliding, no helping sea turtles hatch, no hitchhiking into the unknown with fellow travelers (wont be able to carry pack). I'll still make the best of it, but it's got me feeling real down canceling all those things. Thanks for your concern btw, hope you're doing ok.

 

[Opi-Dawg]

That sucks about your trip man, sorry to hear that. Nerve pain is a withdrawal symptom that sucks, I get pain in my elbow severely when stopping opiates that is horrible. I know I just mentioned this but wanted to throw it out there again. If you can get to a doc you might ask for gabapentin (neurontin), it is used for nerve pain during shingles and other conditions but is becoming widely used nowadays for opiate withdrawal as well. I haven't taken it so can't say from first hand but read it sometimes takes away all withdrawal symptoms including nerve pain. It isn't always an option to get a script but if you know anyone who has had shingles lately maybe you could check... Just a thought. Also clonidine definetly helps with w/d I can attest first hand on that one. It's takes away the severity of it for me and makes it bearable but doesn't take away all w/d. The only problem is getting ahold of it which isn't always possible.

Other than that there are some herbs that are supposed to help with nerve pain as well, of course everyone is different. Skullcap and Motherwort are two along with St. John's wort. The first two I take and they are helpful to me with nerves and sleep or just relaxing but can't say if they help with nerve pain since I haven't taken it for that. Just tossing out a few suggestions, take it for what it is.

And don't get to down on yourself, I know it sucks to be on something you want to be off of. For me it's been 13 years with a 2 year gap where I was off opiates, but that ended after a root canal that came with an oxy script. Sucks for sure, I was doing so well at one point a few years back where my wife got a large oxy script after giving birth that sat in the closet for a year before I touched it (after burning through my root canal script). After that I went back on suboxone just to stabilize but stayed on it far to long. Now here I am tapering off yet again. But, dwelling on the past only makes it seem impossible going forward. We can beat this my friend.

 

[Opi-Dawg]

So I went to the doc today and told him I wanted off suboxone but needed something to help with the withdrawal and he asked me several questions then started writing on his script pad, finally he hands me the paper and it's another script of suboxone! What an idiot! I was able to talk him into giving me a script for clonidine as well but I just can't believe what he did. When I questioned him on why he gave me more subs he said the only thing to take all opioid withdrawal symptoms away is another opiod. I guess he has a point but I just told him i wanted off for good. I asked for gabapentin as well but he didn't want to give me anything else. Oh well, hopefully this will get me through. Have a good one.

 

[SunSpot]

hi opi, some drs are real unkind, sounds like yours is a prime example! I've heard stories of Drs really really pushing Opiods on their patients, it's disgusting. When you expressly ask not to be given any and he writes a you script anyways, that's real low ..

On the other hand it drives home the point that it's our responsibility to stay clean. No one is forcing us to take these things! Im wishing you well, what will be the biggest improvement for you from quitting?

 

[Opi-Dawg]

On the other hand it drives home the point that it's our responsibility to stay clean. No one is forcing us to take these things! Im wishing you well, what will be the biggest improvement for you from quitting?

You are right, it is up to us to get past this and stay clean. It does make it harder when you have a stash of subs that will easily last the next 3 years but subs suck. Honestly I am willing to throw it all away if I can just get back to my old self again.

I think one of the biggest improvements is I will get out of clouded opioid head and be clearer again, I hope. Plus I won't have to always carry around extra doses everywhere I go for 'just in case' scenarios, I can just live my life. Maybe the best one is I won't have to hide anything from my wife anymore. We truly have a great relationship and have been married nearly 14 years. Oh, and my kids will grow up with a dad not addicted to pain killers so they won't have to see that side of me since they are young still. Yea, there are many reasons to get clean so we have to push forward my friend.

 

[SunSpot]

I think one of the biggest improvements is I will get out of clouded opioid head and be clearer again, I hope. Plus I won't have to always carry around extra doses everywhere I go for 'just in case' scenarios, I can just live my life. Maybe the best one is I won't have to hide anything from my wife anymore. We truly have a great relationship and have been married nearly 14 years. Oh, and my kids will grow up with a dad not addicted to pain killers ..

You and me both! That 'head cloud' thing is the most insidious imo, i never felt clouded but know that i was (..'am' with the darn krat). It may seem I'm full of tall tales but i have two *granted* patents already, and my journal would be lucky enough to receive a few new inventions per year. I was always gripped with burning desires to find and solve problems.

Believe me or not, but know this at least: while using i produced exactly ZERO good work. For years i thought i was just done, that i had totally worked over the material and experiences from my education. Because it was such a gradual decline. After all, how could anyone invent a new process in chemistry say, if they had no idea of the three methods that would be combined to make the new one? Or that a new one was needed?

After no more drinking i felt a few stirrings of creativity returning. There was also that month of total sobriety a few years ago as i started my calorie restriction diet (during which i was constantly high from the stuff coming out of my fat. Lost 40lbs over half a year). Still i felt smarter toward the end of my diet, but then sank into heavy heavy kava use i believe. Would be so krunk all the time i developed dermatitis

So I'm ☺ to say the head fog had lifted more than in years just last week, even through all the pain and headaches. No great new inspirations for patents yet, but made some wise investment choices that will benefit my kids. That's another thing: opium itself may have cost me less than 7000 (bought 3k of bulk seeds, i ? saving money on volume discounts. If i was gonna use i was going to do it right ..). But losses from stupid investments are a far far greater multiple off that

 

[treezy z]

I cold turkeyed Kratom, 4 days dopesick (not horribly so) not bad in particular. I had used it to get off subs.

 

[DeeDeeDrug]

I tried kratom for opiate w/d but it didn't seem to do anything at all. I have a pretty good opiate tolerance. Maybe I wasn't taking enough?