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Recovery My journey starts today (hydromorphone)

Sixxam said:
Well shit... I'll call tomorrow. Why am I only feeling it at the 4 hour mark after taking kratom? That's when it's starts kicking in like rls. On the bright side, I just slept an hour with the aid of kratom and lorazepam. Not much but I'll take it.. I actually feel real messed up after a little nap..
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What do you mean by this? Do you think that the Kratom is keeping that symptom under control for four hours, or are you saying you think the Kratom is causing it? And what type of Kratom are you using? I presumed that it was the red vein variety, but I figured I should ask. They have very different properties from one variety to the next.

Sixxam said:
Shoot, I should add. Tonight would be day 9 of dilaudid. The first two nights I took 10mg oxy codone at the 48 and 72 hour mark so that may have slowed it down a little?
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Opioids are opioids; while taking it was not necessarily a bad idea, it would have reduced - and hence delayed / prolonged - the withdrawals you were experiencing. Not by much, because oxycodone's morphine equivalency is a fraction of what you were getting from Dilaudid. It's nothing to beat yourself up over. You're coming cold turkey off a whole lot of Dilaudid - I've been on it for six years and take half of what you're quitting - and you may well have saved yourself from having a grand mal by caving and taking a bit of Oxycodone.

Pembroke said:
Opioids are opioids; while taking it was not necessarily a bad idea, it would have reduced - and hence delayed / prolonged - the withdrawals you were experiencing. Not by much, because oxycodone's morphine equivalency is a fraction of what you were getting from Dilaudid. It's nothing to beat yourself up over. You're coming cold turkey off a whole lot of Dilaudid - I've been on it for six years and take half of what you're quitting - and you may well have saved yourself from having a grand mal by caving and taking a bit of Oxycodone.
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I also misread that. 10 mg coming from a 90mg Dilaudid habit? 10mg didn't slow down shit. I read that as 100 the first time. ??
 
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I feel like the kratom is just making withdrawals and I feel it return every for hours..I don't really know... I'll keep plugging and make a call tomorrow.. Thank you so much guys
 
Sixxam said:
I feel like the kratom is just making withdrawals and I feel it return every for hours..I don't really know... I'll keep plugging and make a call tomorrow.. Thank you so much guys
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Okay, that makes more sense. ?
How much Kratom are you taking, and can you take it every four hours to continue masking the withdrawals for a few days, or is that too close together? The Kratom is definitely preferable to triggering a seizure. I'm not totally sure we're talking about restless leg syndrome based on your description of "flailing" plus your status as a brain trauma patient with a history of seizures.

I am glad you will be talking with your doctor. Depending on your location, your doctor may not be able to advise you on the kratom, but they will be able to advise you on the pseudoseizure activity and your dosing options for your benzodiazepines. Don't take more than you need, because that will only build dependence on the benzos, but I wouldn't be wholly surprised if they suggested a small, but temporary, increase, particularly if what you are experiencing does turn out to be seizure precursors. If they do that, put someone you trust in control of the meds so that you are not tempted to take them for comfort or escape - that's not what they're for. And when you're all done with this, you might want to get in with your neurologist. I'm still concerned that you may have had a return of seizure activity that the Dilaudid was masking based on your description of your extremities "flailing" of their own accord as opposed to simply feeling jittery and restless, which would be much more typical of day nine of detoxing. Though your brain injury is many years old, it is not uncommon for certain symptoms to exacerbate years, even decades, after the initial injury as we age and our brains change. It's just something to consider, though it may just be r/t the detox itself. It's always a good idea to get checked out after stopping a drug habit as large as yours, if for no other reason just to get a good set of relevant baselines. So call that doctor tomorrow, and keep going. You really are through the worst of it by now.
 
Thanks pem,

Yes, I can take it every for hours, I'm taking between 3-5 grams each time. I did use a scale but can now judge by the spoonful. As long as I'm not going to get horrendous withdrawal from there kratom I'll stay on it a few weeks if need be. But I don't know the answer to that.

I slept last night, two small sessions for the first real time. But get this, it was maybe 6 minutes at a time and I dreamt of pills every fucking time. Is that my brain playing tricks on me.

I can actually feel things letting up now, the first 5-6 days the kratom just prevented me being sick, not the twitching or other awful symptems. But now I'm only feeling slight twitching at the 4 hour mark between doses, and mostly if I'm laying still. So that's good!

I almost feel like I need to relearn everything.. Motor skills, work, everything. It's weird? I guess my head is just in a fog.

The panic attacks are really letting up now to, all though I think I'll still need to take more then my 1/4mg clonazepam for a bit. But I will be careful with that for sure.

That tiny bit of sleep was nice.....

Thanks guys for checking in and advising me through this.
 
Didn't mean to scare you about the Kratom. Believe me, I've been through OXY withdrawal... Kratom is nothing compared to that. It does have similar qualities...I feel fully back to normal after ten days. Legs are still a little tense at night and I get desires but nothing else. Keep doing what your doing
 
Good to know that kratom recovery is a little speedier then dilaudid.

I'm feeling leaps better today, that little bit of sleep really helped and my limbs and lights in my head are almost out. Things can change so drastically.

I'm making appointments now to get checked out as well as counseling. I really wanna beat this shit.

I'm still incredibly panicky but I guess that's common. I'm tapering the benzos now as well. At the peak I was taking 2.5mg a day. Between xanax and clonazepam. I took a lorazepam last night and it was far more effective. So I'll use those in conjunction with my clonazepam to titrate back down to about .05mg .

Another day......... I'll keep in touch friends.
 
If your taking 0.25mg clonazepam that is next to nothing when in acute withdrawal of the nature you're going through. I would consider increasing the dose a bit. I'm glad to hear you are feeling better!
 
Hey toothpaste,

My dose before jumping off the dilaudid was 0.25mg a day. During detox I've been taking around 2.5mg a day but I've been using xanax as I thought it would be more effective. I was wrong. I'm not a benzo guy.

Totally exhausted but things are starting to calm. Taking kratom every four hours prevents the zaps and even still I can feel that calming.

I made some calls today and have appointments set and addictions counseling set up.
 
I don't know a huge amount about kratom, but some research this morning has given a host of alternate information. I've seen Kratom withdrawal to be described as more intense than expected, as comparable to quitting caffeine, and even as limited only to psychological cravings. There are a handful of scholarly articles, and they express confusion and various conclusions on the topic. It seems that this is one that varies from person to person and has much to do with how much a person's been taking, and for what length of time. One summary indicated that talking it for less than a year yielding minimal symptoms; another suggested that withdrawals were worse where the Kratom was used to replace another drug; still more cited withdrawals being worse for men, or for women, or for persons under 30 years of age. There is a lot of confusion.
 
Dude I'm just as lost.... I think I'll just wait until I stop feeling withdrawal and taper quickly.. Regardless, I think kratom is peanuts in comparison?
 
OK so my good friend just called me.. She visited a mutual friend in the clink today. He could turkied off 90mg as well in jail. Said he had severe withdrawal for at least 14 days.

I think they're synthesising these fucking opioits more like methadone these days or something.
 
Yes, I wouldn't be too worried about it now. Continuing your kratom use, as long as your symptoms continue to resolve, until you're feeling better is a pretty darn good idea if you ask me. When you're ready you can simply taper off the kratom.

As Pem has suggested, only detoxing from one substance at a time if the way things should be done. First finish detoxing from the hydromorphone. Then the kratom. Finally you can do the benzos (assuming you choose to kick the benzos too that is - I wouldn't suggest doing this until you are sure you have your neurological condition(s) well managed and under control).

I seem to believe that it can have some undesirable effects similar to tramadol in people sensitive to seizure/neurological disorders, but I can't remember why I seem to think this (I wouldn't be too worried as long as your symptoms continue resolving and you don't increase your current dose of kratom).

Sixxam said:
OK so my good friend just called me.. She visited a mutual friend in the clink today. He could turkied off 90mg as well in jail. Said he had severe withdrawal for at least 14 days.

I think they're synthesising these fucking opioits more like methadone these days or something.
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That was what I was suggesting, that you were probably going to need more than the normal seven days for your symptoms to really begin fully resolving, considering your rather significant habit and not tapering off the hydromorphone.

Pretty much any short acting opioid like heroin, morphine, oxycodone, etc, can often lead to the same issue of prolonged acute withdrawal when the dose being kicked is that significant.

You'll get there though, just keep up the good work!
 
One fight at a time Sixx my man. Fretting about possible Kratom WDs isn't gonna help you much in your fight against the massive dragon you're slaying at this time. Focus on getting through the day. One day at a time.
 
Thank you my friend's! Shit is getting real weird with almost no sleep.... Thank God for music!

You guys rock!
 
Hey bud, have you gotten involved in any 12 step work or meetings? I've been a member of AA for five years... Just started some Na too
 
I honestly wouldn't worry about kratom.. If you wanna get *clean* it's not gonna stop you. If you don't it's just gonna wind up another crutch... Just sayin', but yea, w/d's are laughable compared to a real detox, not saying you'll feel good, just that "good" is a subjective word after an experience such as yours.
 
Jackal, I have no desire or enjoyment with the kratom, it is simply a tool I'm using, and to be honest if I hadn't I dunno if it's even be here to write you guys. The shit works!

I'm feeling very crawly at the 4 hour mark still but far less zappy and my limbs aren't heavily jolting. I'm sure this is a good sign. But my arms and legs feel like they're crawling...yuck!

I'm exhausted, but don't see sleep happening tonight.. Lots of music, and reading.

Oh and thinking..... My brain is starting to turn back on.... All though I'm still quite panicky and emotional... What a ride........ Fucking junk!
 
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