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My friend went Psychotic on Acid

Medatripper Tates said:
I have tripped on LSD hundreds of times and I know what I'm talking about. It's not about reverse tolerance. It's about LSD making one hypersensitive, so less is needed, and less is more. Get it?
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Medatripper Tates said:
OK... why did you say before that it doesn't cause reverse tolerance?

Seems like you've been changing your mind.
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OK... I think because that's what Delta-9-THC meant, you "self-proclaimed asshole." Zing!

He/she's got you quoted saying "It's not about reverse tolerance. It's about LSD making one hypersensitive," (i.e. you're saying the two terms mean very different things) to which he/she patiently replies "that's kind of what reverse tolerance is" (indicating they are similar, which they are).

"Reverse tolerance" and "sensitization" to a drug are fairly interchangeable so far as I know. LSD does not cause reverse tolerance in any sense of the term that you didn't pull out of the timeless fractal wormhole in your ass. Get it?
 
Ive never had any sort of reverse tolerance on Acid and Im probably in the 50s for number of times tripping. Ive ended up on planets in other galaxies
 
Medatripper Tates said:
I know potent acid versus impotent acid. I know the difference between ALD-52 and LSD-25. Don't talk to me like you think you know me, it makes yourself look foolish. And yes right about now I am a self-proclaimed asshole.
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Haha right i've also tripped on acid many many times. The only one looking foolish is you by making such a large claim with no proof to back it up. If lsd had a so called "hypersenitivity" I think I would have noticed 30 or 40 trips ago.
 
LSD doesn't have hypersensitivity. One becomes hypersensitive through the use of LSD. How deep you've gone into the trip determines how hypersensitive you become. The deeper you've been, the less LSD you need to have a hard trip. I and many people I know speak from experience.
 
psood0nym said:
OK... I think because that's what Delta-9-THC meant, you "self-proclaimed asshole." Zing!

He/she's got you quoted saying "It's not about reverse tolerance. It's about LSD making one hypersensitive," (i.e. you're saying the two terms mean very different things) to which he/she patiently replies "that's kind of what reverse tolerance is" (indicating they are similar, which they are).

"Reverse tolerance" and "sensitization" to a drug are fairly interchangeable so far as I know. LSD does not cause reverse tolerance in any sense of the term that you didn't pull out of the timeless fractal wormhole in your ass. Get it?
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Yes, I get it. I just don't understand why he would say LSD doesn't cause reverse tolerance then later say it does.

Delta-9-THC said:
An experienced tripper might be able to have a more intense experience than an unexperienced tripper on the same dose but that is only because they are familiar with the headspace and how to work with it and not because of any developed hypersensitivity.
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Delta-9-THC said:
That's kinda what reverse tolerance is. The more times you take it the less you need to get to the same place. It's a developed hypersensitivity to a drug.
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Is that not a contradiction?
 
No. He can speak for himself, but what it reads like to me is that, as an experienced tripper, a person may be able to do more with less because they've become experts at working in the psychedelic medium (just like any master artist within their medium). But this is a developed talent, as opposed to the most commonly understood sense of reverse tolerance as a decrease of insensitivity, which is, I believe, a neurobiological and behavioral phenomenon that occurs without effort in reaction to certain drugs regardless of their psychological effects, and is usually talked about in the context of addiction (like alcoholism).

If you're saying you've gotten really good at using the head space over time, fine. But to posit that the person's psychotic reaction that is the subject of this thread was the result of a spontaneously developed and profound reverse tolerance to LSD is not very defensible given the experience of the majority of users.
 
If you're saying you've gotten really good at using the head space over time, fine. But to posit that the person's psychotic reaction that is the subject of this thread was the result of a spontaneously developed and profound reverse tolerance to LSD is not very defensible given the experience of the majority of users.
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That's why I also stated it could have also been due to the SSRI which kept him holding on to his sense of self as the acid wanted to take him away from it.
 
As a side note, Anti-Depressants were a horrible experience for me. I had been going through a rough time in my life years ago and decided to see a psychologist for what everyone was telling me was extreme depression. I was put on Lexapro. I thought that the Lexapro seemed to help me through this time. However, when it was time to come off of the Lexapro(which people may get stuck on for the rest of there lives) was the one of the worst experiences of my life. I literally felt that that I was in a bad acid trip when I went off the Lexapro. Severe headaches, nausea, sensitivity to light and all over a sense that the world was coming in on me. It took me a good 4-6 months to taper off of this medication. Do I believe that the meds plus his current state (loosing his father) attributed to the bad trip.....Absolutely! For me the meds only surpressed my true feelings. May this also occured with your friend. When taking the acid it made him receptive to the real feelings of his situation. This may have caused the bad trip. Everything came rushing in......
 
perhaps it want acid? ther eis a lot of shitty substances being put on blotter these days like DOB and AMT.
 
Medatripper Tates said:
That's why I also stated it could have also been due to the SSRI which kept him holding on to his sense of self as the acid wanted to take him away from it.
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You said "Not to mention the SSRIs probably prevented him from letting go and accepting the trip as it came," suggesting a possible affect of SSRIs in addition to your idea of 10-fold hypersensitization (or ~40-fold from looking at a previous post where you imply that 1/4 of a hit with a bit of weed gets you where 10 used to). You were not suggesting it as an alternative explanation because you weren't sure about hypersensitization. In fact you flatly stated previously, "Your friend became so hypersensitive that the lsd dose he took caused him to experience ego dissolution. He did not understand what was happening, obviously. If he were to have completely surrendered to the experience he would have entered a timeless fractal space. But he held on and that is what destroyed him." Then later you assured every one that you knew what you were talking about regarding hypersensitization and called one poster "foolish" for questioning you.

All we've heard about the medication he was prescribed was that it was a "really strong" antidepressant, not that it was an SSRI. According to Erowid's page, "LSD and Antidepressants," SSRIs are consistently reported to reduce LSD's effects. Tellingly, it says this about lithium and tricyclics: "People attempting this combination are unable to communicate with others, they go into "fugue states" where they end up in other places and don't know how they got there, and they are generally in a terrible place psychologically." Not to mention the one death reported from combining LSD with lithium.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health3.shtml

This description is far more consistent with the description of the events in the trip:
The last thing my friend rememered the next morning was swimming in the pool, then waking up in hand cuffs. He also remembers something about a padded room and weird clothes, but absolutely nothing else from the trip. He had no idea what he was doing!"
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and that's why i hate benzos.

anyways, regardless of of whether or not it was an ssri, most anti-depressants keep one attached to their sense of self more so than if they weren't on them.

he could have had strong lsd or something else, which wanted to rip his sense of self apart, but the anti-depressant could have been keeping him holding on, so this is what may have resulted in in the psychosis.
 
Medatripper Tates said:
OK... why did you say before that it doesn't cause reverse tolerance?

It causes reverse tolerance 10 fold if you have had your sense of self eliminated and your awareness spun into a timeless fractal then through a wormhole through yourself out of body.

After this kind of trip, it doesn't take much to break through.

Seems like you've been changing your mind.
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I agree 100%

I use to be able to take 6 hits and walk around town, then I had a really intense deep spiritual trip. Now I take 2 with a lil weed and I become the universe.
 
MatthewD said:
I know it can happen, but he's tripped on Acid before and been fine, and taken much heavier doses. Why was it that this time the 1 tab of Acid seemed like it was actually 100 tabs of Acid? I've been doing Psychosis research and to me it sounds like the fact he's on Antidepressants (not sure of the exact type but they are really strong ones, as he's got stronger ones several times now he said) and took Acid.
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Given that the description of people's reactions to mixing tricyclic antidepressants with LSD on Erowid's page (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health3.shtml) has so much in common with your friend's experience, it's probably worth asking him if the "stronger ones" are tricyclics (there's a list of type names on the page). If the last time he did LSD he was using SSRIs or nothing at all, and now he's using one of those, it could be a huge part of the explanation you're looking for. While using LSD with people in the future, it would also be a good question to ask.
 
There seems to be a very definitive line between a bad trip and this sort of psychotic episode. I've only seen this happen about three times, all as a result of LSD, I don't know why but it seems more liable to cause this sortof reaction than other psychedelics. The most prominent part of this reaction is the persons inability to communicate at all.

I witnessed one of my friends go through a very similar experience. Strangely his trip had to do with a family member dying aswell. He took three hits of acid and went on a bike ride with his friends. They saw a few cop cars on their ride and he started thinking the police were following him, so they went home. I got a call at 3 am from one of his friends telling me I had to come over and help them because this person was freaking out and they didn't know what to do.

When I got to their apartment door I could hear the screaming all the way outside. I came up to the apartment and the kid had become very violent and managed to punch one of his friends in the face five times doing some serious damage. when i made eye contact with my friend he said my name and then grabbed me by the shirt and started punching me as hard as he could in the face. I've seen people plenty spaced out tripping but usually never violent.

He was running around the room breaking things screaming, punching people and trying to have sex with the girl who was there. Ya, it sounds like some kind of PCP rage! He started screaming about his dad who is dead and it seemed like he was talking to him. We had to hold him down and force feed him klonapin untill he passed out because having the police come to this apartment was not an option. The K pins did their job perfectly and he hasn't tripped since.

I'm very curious about this sort of reaction because I've taken gigantic doses of all kinds of psychedelics and I never have this happen to me, the closest is maybe ill roll around and babble a little when i do too much DMT. It seems to have to do with past trauma especially someones death. I've seen people talk to their dead parents on several occasions. Also weed can play a huge part in these kinds of reactions, its notorious for causing feelings of paranoia and they can be exponential on psychedelics.
 
Medatripper Tates said:
OK... why did you say before that it doesn't cause reverse tolerance?

It causes reverse tolerance 10 fold if you have had your sense of self eliminated and your awareness spun into a timeless fractal then through a wormhole through yourself out of body.

After this kind of trip, it doesn't take much to break through.

Seems like you've been changing your mind.
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No you misunderstood me. I was saying that this does not occur with most people. You said that hypersensitivity is not the same as reverse tolerance while I said it IS (more precisely hypersensitivity is the result of reverse tolerance). I still believe that neither occurs in a neurological sense.
 
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Medatripper Tates said:
^^^Someone who's been there...
Then you simply can't understand because you haven't been there.
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But they only achieved a 3-fold increase in potency because of it. I think their meager spiritual powers were not worthy of the LSD fractal goddess. She didn't take them to the "there" you went to, the much further and superior "there" that gives you and only you a 10-fold or 40-fold increase in effects depending on what post we read.

But maybe you're right and it's arriving at roughly that same "there" that results in hypersensitivity. After all, if I drive 3 miles or 40 miles in any direction, I'll almost always end up in the exact same country.With a range so narrow, consistent, and certain as you've given; with LSD, a drug so exact in concentration; with memory-based qualitatively derived estimates of potency increases of LSD so accurate; and, with changes in metabolism so unwavering over time, how could anyone doubt the veracity of your claims?

I totally get what you're saying because after my spiritual experience with ayahuasca I became so sensitive to DMT that my astral body started levitating into the infinity infinity infinity astral plane every time my dinner plate-sized third-eye cried DMT. When I arrived on that exalted perch god gave me head and recreated himself in my image. Then I laughed and laughed at how impotent all other people's psychedelic experiences have been and will forever be. I'm super special.
 
^hahaha its okay megatripper your just obviously more advanced than all of us when it comes to using lsd!
 
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