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☛ Official ☚ [Mushrooms Subthread] Different Strains & Cultivation

^The point is that the phrase *strain* is misleading. What are often sold as strains are really all Cubensis. They may look a bit different due to growing techniques and breeding but as things go they are the same species. So whilst the chems they contain may be slightly different the difference will be small.

Most people will struggle to tell the affects of two entirely different species of shrooms apart, so it seems unlikely to me given all the different ways shrooms can manifest themselves anyway, that you will be able to tell the difference. Could be wrong though :)

No! It's accepted that different strains of Morning Glories and Hawaiian Baby Woodrose have different trips, and that different strains of cannabis have different highs,
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My pessimistic opinion would be both of these affects are exaggerated. Obviously there is some difference and most people can tell extremes on the sativa-indica spectrum so to speak, however i think if you did blind fold tests few would be able to correctly label strains of pot, much less MGS or shrooms.

Also there are lots and lots of different active chems in both pot and MGS/HBWR
there are only 4 or so (in any real quantities) in shrooms as far as i know.

All that being said there is a species - species difference. Most people who try Liberty Caps and another species will claim Libs are substantially difference, this is probably due to them having loads of baeocystin. I am not convinced about strains though.

Happy travels :)
 
Pretty_Diamonds said:
Each contains different amounts of psilocybin, psilocin, and/or other psychoactive tryptamines. Not to mention other ingredients that people believe produce other effects.
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By varying the proportion of 4-PO-DMT/4-HO-DMT(synthetics) and could get more effects appeared to Cubensis or similar to those Copelandias.
 
baeocystin is the phosphate ester of 4-HO-NMT (which is a demethylated version of 4-HO-DMT, psilocin). I have tried 4-HO-NMT (pure, synthetic) up to doses of 25mg oral with absolutely zero effects. Friends have tried IVing and IMing it in 4-20mg doses with no effect whatsoever.

I propose 4-HO-NMT is completely inactive. However, one must go ahead and try to take it with a MAOI (although why IV did not work I will not understand?). Also one must go ahead and try using it in conjunction with other chemicals. That is the next step I'll do it someday (years from now?) when I have some more time on my hands :)

The first time I tried 4-HO-NMT (monomethylcin?) I used 10mg oral with 10mg 4-HO-DMT oral. I believe this was as strong as a later 15mg 4-HO-DMT trial (although these things are hard to tell). It certainly hit me VERY hard (perhaps 4-HO-NMT slots into receptor sites potentiating psilocin?).

I once took some cyans and I believe my trip was altered subjectively because I did not have to digest so much fungi material! 1.5 grams equaled it seemed to me about an 1/8th of regular potency psilocybe cubensis.
 
I would also like to point out that just like cannabis these so called "strains" of the same species may also have different phenotypes within the same strain. This makes quite a difference with many strains of cannabis and would likely do the same for mushrooms. I think the debate comes from the fact that psychedelics are already so unpredictable that different concentrations of alkaloids can not ensure one particular type of trip. However there are general patterns of feelings across trips with the same species and strain.

Take for example the blueberry strain of cannabis which has multiple phenotypes, some which are not particularly blue unless flowered at the correct temperature, and lack the blueberry smell. These phenotypes have much different highs. Mushrooms are likely the same but it is difficult to distinguish because of the inherently varied nature of psychedelic content.
 
I don't want to go talking sources but if you're familiar with the oldest and most reputable spore vendor around after PF went down, just look at all the pictures of the varieties of psilocybe mushrooms he has. The differences are striking, and clearly they are not BS. Ever heard of Penis Envy? They look like dicks.

Sure, you probably wouldn't be able to identify a strain by its high, but you would certainly be able to say "this trip was more x than y." No one's claiming to be able to identify a strain by its effects, just that the effects are different.
 
Ismene said:
It's a feature of psilocybin mushrooms that they can produce different effects every time you take them. I think if you gave someone capsules of different mushrooms and then told them to identify them as mexican or thai no-one could reliably identify them.
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Yep. Mushrooms trips aren't very constant IME. It probably has something to do with the alkaloid content never being the same.
Taking straight psilocybin is a different story, however.
 
samadhi_smiles said:
baeocystin is the phosphate ester of 4-HO-NMT (which is a demethylated version of 4-HO-DMT, psilocin). .
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Are people making 4-HO-DMT synthetically these days then samadhi? Never knew it was available.

They'll be making placebomine next (I believe placebodine is already on the market) ;)
 
^^ Yes, 4-HO-DMT that is synthetic is available. Its effects differ from those of mushrooms quite significantly according to just about everyone (including me). Although of course they are similar.
 
^I've taken a very clean extract of psilocybe subaerignosa- probably 25-30 mg, as it wasn't a clean as a whistle extraction, and the effects were almost the same as eating mushrooms themselves. In comparision with synth 4-HO-DMT, which I hqve only had once and so can't say with absolute certainty as to its effects; the sensations/effects were vastly different- in one sense really- very little anxiety.

So in comparing a mushroom extract with mushrooms, I found the efffects of the two pretty much identical, besides the knowedge that I was eating a more refined form of a mushroom- that may have influenced something to some degree's. But in comparing either to synthetic 4-HO-DMT, the difference is quite staggerring- of course, once again there is the knoweedge that one is consuming a pure and high-grade chemical as opposed to magic fruit. I would wager that 4-PO-DMT is active in its own right.....Even Shulgin said he coukd find only one literary refereence to the dephosphorisation (sp??word??????). I suspect it has some adrenergic effects to, as mushrooms/extracts seem to give me vasonconstriction, whereas the 4-HO-DMT synthetic didn't especially.

I'd love to do some double blind studies with mushroom extract and synthetic 4-HO-DMT. I think the results would be quite telling....
 
I too find that synthetic 4-HO-DMT produces little anxiety and little body discomfort, whereas mushrooms produce a lot of it usually.
 
I think with the mushrooms - you are dealing with a consciousness, a being, which interfaces with the human through the molecules.

And each mushroom species is a different kind of being...

If I am to compare the local cubensis, to other wood loving psylocybes, to mushrooms bought in amsterdam in the shops... there are often very little similarities between the experiences. It is a totally different framework of consciousness you are entering into with each type of mushroom.

And then you have philosophers stones, which again, are very different to the plain old mushrooms... even though the chemicals are the same.

But, I don't think it is about the chemicals. At at all really.



Julian.
 
I think it is about the chemicals, but the chemicals are just the means by which to tune your mind to be able to interact with the spirit. It's all the same to me. Natural psychedelics fascinate me so much because there are usually dozens if not hundreds of other alkaloids in play, and the combined effect of them all is so much more complex and finely tuned.
 
I brought this up a year or so ago. I had tried Equadorian cubensis, which had a completely different effect than any that I've tried before. In fact, they made me go into mini-seizures, like my muscles would lock up and my limbs would move when I didn't want them to. No other mushrooms have done that to me.
 
I think I've tried all the commercially available strains at this point, aside from a couple fucked up mutated ones that are just kept alive for cosmetic reasons (IMO). I haven't noticed any difference between any of them. Like most I've made some stupid decisions with drugs and my fuck-ups were mostly with mushrooms.. taking them hundreds of times. I honestly have no clue how much I've taken, quit keeping count a long, long time ago.

I frequently get side effects like cramping/twitching muscles from a solid dose of mushrooms though, regardless of strain. I usually take some skelaxin or other mild muscle relaxer with them so that I don't get twitchy (or jello-legged from the muscle relaxer).

Now with different species, I have had pretty different effects.

Some of the twitchy muscles I get from a lot of tryptamines. straight psilocin also caused this. I just try my best to dismiss it and go dance or walkd aorund or whatever the hell I was doing... unless I've on a dose thats going to make me part with my surroundings... then I go lay down somewhere soft.
 
I'm looking for more opinions and experiences of comparisons between shrooms, especially different species.

Whenever I trip on P. semilanceata, I don't really get many visuals - not as such. On small doses my field of vision is untroubled. I don't get movement in my peripheral vision, like many describe and I don't get tracers, rainbows, light points etc around things. Colours and the general world are 'enhanced' somewhat. However this tends to be more enhancement of dark colours, such as dark blue/purple, black and greens - more so in nature. I don't really get enhancement of lighter colours. Visual distortions do occur, but are fairly limited. I don't get any CEV on small doses.

On higher doses I do get visuals, lots. But they are not really 'visuals' as such. By this I mean it's not an independent visual phenomena, I sort of see things but taste/smell/sense and most of all feel them all at the same time. The changes just sort of blend together, into an overall feeling. I get a strong impression of colour; sort of white and purple fused together, kinda the typical psychedelic colour I guess. This is more representative though, as it doesn't really matter if my eyes or open or closed, or if I don't even realise I exist.

Now the other week I tripped with my friend, it was his first time and we both ate 30 P. semilanceata. I didn't speak to him about visuals or the like, or what I see on mushrooms as I wanted him to not be influenced by my experiences. He pretty much experienced what I normally do in terms of visuals, and was surprised at how little he sort but also surprised at the effect on his though process. Pretty much exactly what I felt my first time. Now of course there could be some influence from me to him, i.e. subtly body language amplified by the shrooms making this set out of visuals occur as it does, but I think it's reasonable to suggest he didn't naturally receive a whole lot of visuals.

Now a lot of people I know who have done mushrooms have eaten P. cubensis, namely when abroad. The reports these people give are pavements and streets awash with bright colours, and vibrant CEVs and OEVs on small-medium doses. This seems to be somewhat mirrored in a lot of trip reports I have read on Erowid, though it's true to say the number of P. semilanceata there are not that great.

So basically I’m asking has anyone got considerable (i.e. at a range of different dosages) experience with both P. cubensis and P. semilanceata, and if so how did they compare? I'm not just interested in the visual aspects, in fact that's the least of my interests it just happened that it was the main reported difference that has caught my eye.

It would be interesting to try and account for differences with the different alkaloid contents, e.g. P. semilanceata contains little psilocin but loads of psilocybin and also one of the highest concentrations of baeocystin along with plenty of norbaeocystin. P. cubensis on the other hand contains a much more even mix of psilocybin/psilocin and a lot less baeocystin.

Thanks for any help!
 
^what i can tell you is that wild mushrooms can vary a lot. Over here last's year semilanceata were a lot stronger and visual than they were in the last few years...
 
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