Multiple US Federal Agencies involved in supplying weapons to Mexican cartels

Those who know won't tell ;P

Honestly, the wayyyy most likely scenario is said documents will show favored cartels. That is a PR nightmare. At this point, intervention in Mx is pretty much "in the shadows" for reasons of necessity. I wish it'd be more open but that's not reality right now. We have 2 threads going for this so I'm not gonna try to explain this doubly, but the reality is there's many cartels fighting, and there's (at least) one that has considerable state support, while there's one (well, ALL technically, but one that stands alone here for the most part) cartel that the gov's/cartels want gone. One has 'turned into a monster' so to speak, and the fighting in mx is insane - it's only surprising that we're contributing arms because few know what's going on south of the border. Honestly, most of the people who are pissed about this may find they'd be singing the exact opposite tune if they knew who/where/why the guns were being moved.
 
smokeymcpot42088 said:
For the Record Im in Michigan, we have open carry, full auto (extra $200 in paperwork), Silencers (200 in paperwork), concealed carry ($150 and a class).....not sure on flash grenades RPGs etc etc but the rest im on top of.
Click to expand...

lol you can't legally buy an RPG anywhere except maybe Yemen. Grenade launchers I don't know about, but I'm pretty sure the cartridges are illegal.
 
Issa subpoenas ATF over gunwalking allegations

The Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) is facing a Congressional subpoena today over allegations that it allowed thousands of guns to be smuggled into the hands of Mexican drug cartels.

Those allegations first received national attention in a series of exclusive investigative reports filed by CBS News' Sharyl Attkisson.

The subpoena comes from Congressman Darrell Issa (R-CA), who chairs the House Committee on Oversight and Government reform. It also follows the ATF's failure to produce the requested records voluntarily to either Issa or Iowa Senator Charles Grassley, who has also requested them.

"The unwillingness of this Administration - most specifically the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms - to answer questions about this deadly serious matter is deeply troubling," said Chairman Issa said in a statement. "Allegations surrounding this program are serious and the ability of the Justice Department to conduct an impartial investigation is in question. Congressional oversight is necessary to get the truth about what is really happening."
Click to expand...

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20049764-10391695.html#ixzz1IVLI4lKC
 
Interested in what's uncovered, tho I won't be shocked to find out a solid-enough op was blown....meh who fuggin knows, til anyone knows who/why the guns were moving it's just speculation.
And I'm speculating that jack-shit will be "discovered" here, "ATF goes down" is a favorable headline to "state-sponsored cartel being supplied weapons to continue territory battle with rival cartel". ATF is a small agency, and w/ ICE/DEA/CIA/FBI, I honestly wouldn't be that shocked to see ATF get sacrificed over this, they fucked up (srsly, if you're trying to walk guns like they were, wtf did they have two agents w/ ~1yr tenure there seeing it happen?? Sloppy, sloppy work here..)
 
The corrupt bastards are probably doing it to further their own interests and prolong the WOD, by creating enough opportunities for scare and shock stories by the media to justify continued prohibition.

Arm the cartels, shit gets more difficult to stamp the jackboot down on, more massacres=all the more credibility when they say 'drug users and dealers are the rectum-slurping scum of the earth, look at all the killings in the name of continuing supply, this is why drugs are and should be illegal'

If they keep the killings up, they can keep justifying their fuckup little cause, and keep lining the pockets not just of themselves, but of all the vested interests held by the parasites they are in league with.
 
Doing what (arming the cartels, subpoening the ATF, etc?) to further what? Sorry your post just struck me as vague, am curious who all the shadowy "they's" in the post are represent (big pharma? Private prisons? Arms sales? "The system"?)
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
The corrupt bastards are probably doing it to further their own interests and prolong the WOD, by creating enough opportunities for scare and shock stories by the media to justify continued prohibition.

Arm the cartels, shit gets more difficult to stamp the jackboot down on, more massacres=all the more credibility when they say 'drug users and dealers are the rectum-slurping scum of the earth, look at all the killings in the name of continuing supply, this is why drugs are and should be illegal'

If they keep the killings up, they can keep justifying their fuckup little cause, and keep lining the pockets not just of themselves, but of all the vested interests held by the parasites they are in league with.
Click to expand...

And it gives them more excuses to expand the federal government, and control/regulate the drug flow by tightening border security. They bust mainly smugglers from cartels who don't "contribute" to politicians' campaigns, while the ones that do get special treatment (heads up on raids, taskforces, etc.)

Unfortunately, I think sanger's right on the money. The feds will let other agencies do the work (most likely FBI and ICE/customs/DHS)

Wouldn't it be more effective to consolidate all the agencies into one unit, like the FBI, and then have subdivisions, like regular police departments? It doesn't make sense to have multiple federal agencies in law enforcement all working independent. It lowers the level of scrutiny.
 
SangerRainsford said:
Doing what (arming the cartels, subpoening the ATF, etc?) to further what? Sorry your post just struck me as vague, am curious who all the shadowy "they's" in the post are represent (big pharma? Private prisons? Arms sales? "The system"?)
Click to expand...

I think he was referring to the OP. They as in "the system" or people in charge of the system in place that runs government in general? Correct me if I misinterpretted you, Limpet.
 
SangerRainsford said:
Interested in what's uncovered, tho I won't be shocked to find out a solid-enough op was blown....meh who fuggin knows, til anyone knows who/why the guns were moving it's just speculation.
And I'm speculating that jack-shit will be "discovered" here, "ATF goes down" is a favorable headline to "state-sponsored cartel being supplied weapons to continue territory battle with rival cartel". ATF is a small agency, and w/ ICE/DEA/CIA/FBI, I honestly wouldn't be that shocked to see ATF get sacrificed over this, they fucked up (srsly, if you're trying to walk guns like they were, wtf did they have two agents w/ ~1yr tenure there seeing it happen?? Sloppy, sloppy work here..)
Click to expand...

I speculate that your speculation is right, they won't "uncover" anything. Congress is entirely run by criminals, and no doubt if anything is "uncovered", they will go to whomever is "exposed" in the documents, let them know what's been found, and then they will privately work out some deal behind closed doors. Then the congressman who "uncovers" anything won't officially "uncover" anything, then somehow a large deposit will get made into his bank account by an "anonymous "person ;) That's washington, for ya :(
 
Severely etarded-I mean both.

The government as a corporate, impersonal organization, and the moneygrubbing, corrupt nepotistic babyfuckers that make up its membership.

We need SOME sort of government in place obviously to ensure the economic, military and judicial stability of countries, but I am strongly in favour of them all being forcibly restricted to the form of bare-bones, minimalistic organizations.

The bastards we have now (I'm not an american BTW, but English), are nothing short of shocking, its true some here got sent to the shitcan when their shady snouts got discovered buried in somebody else's trough (I.E the citizenry of the UK), but time and time again there are scandals that somehow are not punished, but merely brushed off as 'oh, sorry, we really shouldn't have done that, we won't do it again', and of course, what happens? bugger all, they go straight back at it.

In many cases this is to the extent of outright fraud, and very often, promises are made, that when time passes and these were meant to be fulfilled, are ignored completely, the Blair era being the perfect example. Voters promised a referendum on the Lisbon treaty, which we were denied when it came to the time for the politicians to put their money (or rather, our money) where their mouth was. They gave the flimsiest excuse ever, when a clause or two were added or taken out, the name of the prospective treaty was changed, which according to Labour, meant that they had no obligation whatsoever to honor their manifesto promises.

A genuine mistake, or error in getting facts right can be forgiveable, depending of course on what it might be, but acts like that, or the even shadier goings on that are rife in US politics, getting busted pulling crap like that, in my opinion, should be grounds for mandatory, instant dismissal if it is found to have taken place, and if its on an institutional level, I think, telling lies by those in power should be valid grounds for their removal from office.

Its quite apalling, how high the threshold for political misconduct is, before punitive action is put in place. And when something IS done, a slap on the wrist isn't nearly enough.

I am of the opinion that when politicians get caught feathering their own nests, and/or get caught out lying and scamming there needs to be punishment, not just for the most flagrant cases, but for all misconduct of that nature, its no good waiting until a case happens where the filth actually have to be called in to begin a fraud investigation, punishment needs to be swift, and vicious.

Politicians have lost their way, these days, as a group, and have either forgotten, or just plain couldn't give a fuck, that the purpose for their existence, is to serve the people, not to be served BY the people. The widespread, and flagrant corruption in the UK, european and US political systems is only going to stop, when some political figures get lined up against the wall, and figuratively speaking, shot in the face (well I say figuratively, in some cases literally wouldn't be such a bad thing=D)

As for the gun running incident(s), its serving to create more fear and carnage, which they can then use to justify ever tighter controls, and ever closer surveillance of the people, justify voting themselves ever more draconian powers, and justify more lawmaking, thus granting themselves larger budgets, the government here, and from everything I read, in the US, has become a vast, bloated parasite, latched onto the public tit, and will stop at very little to dig themselves in deeper. Doesn't matter a shit who one votes for IMO, you get the same. Vote for one major party, you get a blood-sucking, greedy little tick, burying itself into to the citizenry's body, vote for the other, and you get a vile little tapeworm sucking blood, power and money.
 
yeah the one thing i dont get is, the cartels could literally have any thing when it comes to weapons....they are getting ar-15's and shit from US gun shops? they could buy an entire plane filled with 50 cal rifles, ar's RPG's, grenades, anti tank rifles.....and so on....

all it takes to buy an automatic weapon is $200 tax stamp....but to get that stamp you have to practically give the ATM a hand job.
 
yeah the one thing i dont get is, the cartels could literally have any thing when it comes to weapons....they are getting ar-15's and shit from US gun shops? they could buy an entire plane filled with 50 cal rifles, ar's RPG's, grenades, anti tank rifles.....and so on....

all it takes to buy an automatic weapon is $200 tax stamp....but to get that stamp you have to practically give the ATF a hand job.

ed to delete double post
 
Last edited:
bl must be running slow, I just double-posted too ;P

I didn't get that at first - only thing I can think of could be a smaller operation, like getting guns to a spot/group that doesn't have an easy access channel to their actual group, which is very common right now.
Don't get me wrong - they have ZERO issue w/ money or access to weapons, however, I wouldn't be shocked to find one of their weapons sources could be some dealer in pheonix who was told to supply the 'local' enforcement...that's the best I can think of really, but even still the cartels control the corridors (hhhmmm, maybe that's it - maybe there was a need for some fast shipments, or some extra last second shipments, *coupled* w/ the needing cartel being geographically blocked near the part of the border w/ pheonix, for instance the gulf cartel may've needed something near the border in sinaloa cartel's area, where it was easier to just have the guns walked instead of trying to move them)
 
'medicine cabinet' said:
yeah the one thing i dont get is, the cartels could literally have any thing when it comes to weapons....they are getting ar-15's and shit from US gun shops? they could buy an entire plane filled with 50 cal rifles, ar's RPG's, grenades, anti tank rifles.....and so on....

all it takes to buy an automatic weapon is $200 tax stamp....but to get that stamp you have to practically give the ATF a hand job.

ed to delete double post
Click to expand...

Where can they get a plane of guns from? Who is going to sell it to them? America is where the guns are, of course they buy them here.
 
^where do you think all the ak-47 rifles come from?

There are literally millions of gun and rounds of ammunition in old satelite eastern euro countries and they sell to the highest bidder.

if the cartels want to get the best technology they would be better off getting them from the US, but there are so many shady companies that manufacture fire arms by the thousands.

im not talking about FNH SCAR's or other high grade arms, im talking about cheaply made asian knockoffs. There are so many arms dealers that supply cartels all over the world....check out Victor Bout....
 
severely etarded said:
Water is knee deep at the laredo crossing, and only gets more shallow as you go north. They could walk over the border anywhere between Laredo and San Diego
Click to expand...
Oh no I meant "walking guns" over the border, not crossing from laredo to nuevo laredo (or any other hotly contested areas, which is essentially the whole border). I feel like I've been kicked in the head, I'm not getting things across clearly over the past 24hrs lol - I meant a scenario wherein, say, gulf cartel wanted guns *right* in nuevo laredo (or laredo, TX) to use against zetas (presumably), and it was easier for them to be "clean" guns that were just driven back across, rather than smuggled by anyone who the zetas (or the bajillion lookouts) at the border areas would notice.
Definitely a stretch, but short of nicer guns this really doesn't add up on any level outside sheer convenience geographically (and even then, still barely works).
If not convenience, ie quicker to walk the guns from the US than get them from mx city, then what else? Curious what you think, I mean it can't be "needed access" cuz they have it, can't be prices cuz they could beat them w/ bulk purchases, wasn't nice/exotic shit they can't get in mx, and the whole "build a case based on where the guns go" doesn't make a shred of sense for *tons* of reasons already mulled over in this thread... weird situation here

Kewlwip said:
Where can they get a plane of guns from? Who is going to sell it to them? America is where the guns are, of course they buy them here.
Click to expand...
From anywhere - america is where the guns *start*, but as mentioned this still doesn't make sense. American guns would be coming in freighters/planes *even if* they were us-sponsored, having a couple cars pack trunks is small stuff that doesn't make sense, it would cost the cartels (before smuggling them) WAY more than just buying them in mx.
I see how that almost forces you to take my word, so I'll just post pics from a bust that came up a few days ago, tell me if these look like US-gun shop arms:
<<NSFW'ing them for space, they ARE sfw, just gun pics>>
NSFW:
decomisaejercitoenmexicalidroga.jpg

decomisaejercitoenmexicalidroga2.jpg

decomisaejercitoenmexicalidroga3.jpg

decomisaejercitoenmexicalidroga5.jpg

/hand-grenade attacks are becoming commonplace, as in many per week in mx, and those sure as shit aren't coming outta any gun shops, also older ak's are more common than ar15/M4 type rifles, which also points away from the US. (That's NOT to mean the US couldn't sponsor such thing, just that it's not a gun-store to cartel pipeline, unless stores have a different setup out back/in the basement lol)

'medicine cabinet' said:
^where do you think all the ak-47 rifles come from?

There are literally millions of gun and rounds of ammunition in old satelite eastern euro countries and they sell to the highest bidder.

if the cartels want to get the best technology they would be better off getting them from the US, but there are so many shady companies that manufacture fire arms by the thousands.

im not talking about FNH SCAR's or other high grade arms, im talking about cheaply made asian knockoffs. There are so many arms dealers that supply cartels all over the world....check out Victor Bout....
Click to expand...
Well said - and in some cases you are talkin fnh's (they're the only ones w/ the 5.7mm 'pointy' <lol I dunno the name> bullets right?), and other high-end weaponry, although it seems a very fair share of that comes from mx military, since the "exotic" stuff still tends to be things that aren't "otc" in the US, for instance the increasingly common sight of sicarios w/ 40mm grenade launchers on their modern AR-types.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top