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Milk doesn't do a body good.

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My boyfriend suffers from severe anaphylaxis to dairy products including but not limited to sodium caseinate, whey, lactose, EVEN breast milk. Recently, he's noticed hives after applying deodorant. Once reading the ingredient label we found that it contained a dairy by-product. For one reason or another women’s deodorant does not.

Most of his life he's only been able to consume Coffee Mate with his cereal, but thanks to all the health nuts, markets now carry Soy Milk, Rice Milk, Almond Milk, Soy Ice Cream in many varieties, some stores even carry Soy Cheese. I'm not exactly how accurate this statement is, but he's claimed to prefer Rice Milk over Soy Milk, because apparently Soy Milk affects sexual performance. :\
 
Soy milk affects sexual performance??? I dunno about him but I had some great sex last night! Better than usual actually.
 
markusgoneawry said:
This is a stupid argument. No other species has the capability to procure another animal's milk. No other species chops up another animal and BBQ's them either. No other species smokes weed either. No other species farms fruits and vegetables either.

Are you suggesting that we as humans need to justify what we eat drink and do by comparing them to what other species do?
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Hey, I wasn't using that as an argument, exactly.. just sayin', bro.

But if I WERE to argue why milk sucks, I'd lay down a few things:

- milk contains proteins too complex for a human to digest, simply because it's made for a calf that has four stomachs will grow at a rate of hundreds of pounds in just months.. it's no wonder around 50% of the human population CANNOT digest lactose (lactose intolerant)
- cow’s milk is the number one cause of food allergies among infants and children, according to the American Gastroenterological Association
- dairy cattle rarely graze on grass any more, but instead are fed chemically engineered feeds, sometimes sawdust and other fun things like other cows (mad cow disease anyone?)
- dairy cows are pumped full of hormones to keep them artificially inseminated
- antibiotics are thrown in the mix constantly because of the high infection rate among [modern] dairy cows
- 90% of dairy cows contract an udder infection, often resulting in milk contaminated with pus and blood
- a harvard study showed that milk provided no protection against broken bones
- studies show milk creates an increased risk of prostate and ovarian cancer, diabetes, obesity, and heart disease
- the osteoperosis it claims to fight actually is at an increased risk when consuming milk.
- each cow raised by the dairy industry drinks as much as 50 gallons of water per day. along with chickens, pigs, and other animals raised for food, cows are the primary consumers of half the water in the U.S
- T. Colin Campbell, professor of nutritional biochemistry at Cornell University, said, “The association between the intake of animal protein and fracture rates appears to be as strong as that between cigarette smoking and lung cancer.”
- cows suffer

so, you guys can continue living in a fantasy world, but remember this:
although American women consume tremendous amounts of calcium, their rates of osteoporosis are among the highest in the world. conversely, Chinese women consume half the calcium (all of it from plant sources) and have scant incidence of the bone disease.

All that milk MUST be working! For me, I'll stick to almond, rice, and soy milks for my cereal..
 
chaosgardens said:
I take it those who have stopped taking milk no longer have cereal then.
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Are you shitting me? Cereal is A LOT better now without cow's milk. Replace it with some soy milk, and that POWERS you for the day. Whole grains + soy protein = rawkin.
 
Stagnant, many of the arguments you have against milk do NOT apply to organic mlik. I am firmly against non-organic dairy myself.

Also, yes there are allergies, and lactorse intolerance, BUT NOT EVERYBODY HAS THESE! For those of us who are have no problems with milk, and consume it organic, it is a good source of protein and other nutrients.

It is *not* a good source of calcium, but that's ok. It has other benefits.

Alot of what you said, especially comparing American and Asian women, is not at all clearly correlated. There are MANY differences in diet, lifestyle, and genetics between these people, and to say that dairy is THE cause is simply idiotic (as well as completely unproven).

Also, if you look at Americans say 100 years ago, or at various herding communities throughout human history, you'll see comparable rates of dairy consumption WITHOUT the high rates of osteoporosis, cancer, etc.
 
100 years ago, we didn't have many problems associated with industrialized food, nor did we live long enough to worry about things such as cancer. If anyone did die of those things, it was probably not noted as such.

You say not everyone has lactose intolerance, but what about the 90% of Native Americans and 75% of African Americans? Oh, well we never did care for them anyways..

Yes, it's a good source of protein.. for a calf whose intended goal is to gain 100lbs in a month! It's too good a source, IMO.. thus most people cannot digest it.

Is milk really natural for humans? If you were to drink a human's milk after childhood, you'd be labelled crazy. But hey, everyone drinks cow's milk, so social norms dictate a lack of craziness there. And why must milk be pasteurized first? If it was so good for us, we would be able to suck it straight from the udders like a good calf can do.

Sure, it's an inference to say that milk is causal for increased female puberty rates, but we can simply look at the rates of males, which remains steady, and wonder what's happening to the girls. SOMETHING must be stimulating their hormones, and when we look at industrialization and what we eat in relation to these figures.. well, let's just say I can't come up with a better explanation.

Whether or not milk provides certain things does not factor out nature's bottom line: the nutrients and complexity of milk was intended for a baby cow that has 3 stomachs. Cows, let's remember, eat grass.. they're herbivores. Perhaps all that extra protein is there for a reason, since their diets lack that component. Humans, however, already consume large amounts of protein via meats and legumes. Excess protein from milk has been proven to do the same as what happens when you feed too many of one nutrient to a plant; nutrient lockout leading to depletion. In this case, calcium.
 
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You say not everyone has lactose intolerance, but what about the 90% of Native Americans and 75% of African Americans? Oh, well we never did care for them anyways..
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WTF? That's alot of people, but NOT everyone. Go read my post again if you're confused.

Is milk really natural for humans?
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What the hell is 'natural'? Ants milk aphids. Many animals consume the blood of other animals. Milk is just another bodily fluid; just another part of an animal. But even if milk ISN'T natural, does it matter? There are lots of things we do, as humans, that no other animal does...that doesn't mean those activities are bad. Also, I don't think milk should be pasteurized, and I don't think it would be weird if adults drank human breast milk. You're clearly grasping for straws here.

Humans, however, already consume large amounts of protein via meats and legumes.
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SOME humans do! I personally don't like most legumes and I was vegetarian when I was younger....I definitely did NOT get enough protein. Furthermore in many parts of the world meat is not available or affordable, and dairy, as a COMPLETE PROTEIN (which a legume by itself is not), is an excellent source of nutrition.

Excess protein from milk has been proven to do the same as what happens when you feed too many of one nutrient to a plant; nutrient lockout leading to depletion.
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Uhhh, it doesn't matter WHERE the protein comes from. Eating too much meat will do the same thing, or too much soy, or whatever. It's not dairy specific, but nice try.

You clearly have a huge vendetta against dairy and are trying to twist everything you can into making it evil...try to be a little more objective.
 
>>>> Uhhh, it doesn't matter WHERE the protein comes from. Eating too much meat will do the same thing, or too much soy, or whatever. It's not dairy specific, but nice try.

I was talking about the complex proteins dairy contains. Soya does not contain indigestible proteins.

>>>> But even if milk ISN'T natural, does it matter? There are lots of things we do, as humans, that no other animal does...that doesn't mean those activities are bad.

Obviously humans do a lot of differing things that other animals cannot possibly extend their capacities to accomplish. I'm not saying that, blindly, all extraordinary things humans do are bad. But when simply looking at the facts, it's obvious that most humans aren't naturally supposed to drink milk. When giving cow's milk to children, who need their own 'human' milk at a certain point, it causes a mess of problems including weak bones, anemia, and digestive disorders. Children are innocently susceptible to harmful things, which is why ear infections and other bacterial problems are prevalent among kids when drinking milk from cows with udder infections. Honestly, this being my own opinion regarding the objective evidence provided, humans were never meant to drink cow's milk at any degree. That doesn't mean that benefits cannot be gained, or that humans can't digest the substance, but I'm merely stating that the human body seems to show too many long term problems associated with consumption of the cow's milk to make me think it is beneficial.

Yes, humans can be seen as omnivores, but where exactly did that come into the evolutionary process? If [I suppose arguably] we evolved from apes, who are herbivores, then wandered from the forests to the grasslands, there was a good time gap in our evolution from ape to humanoid that suggests that pre-humans hunted prey for food primarily for the reason that there was a lack in sufficient vegetation to feed off of. When humans evolved more thoroughly in our frontal cortex, we gained the complexity in thought to establish ways of farming and controlling nature to fit our diets in ways that allowed humans to stop hunting as a source of primary diet.

I suppose at this point, we're referred to as omnivorous because of our tendencies to go into both hunting and farming for our diets. At this point I cannot help but be as objective as I possibly can. If we are given these two choices of eating grown crops of vegetables, fruits and grains, and eating hunted and milked animals, then we should look into which is healthiest and gives us the least problems and most benefits.

At this point in our scientific capacities, humans are now able to utilize vaccinations and cleanliness in our diets to eliminate the number one cause of death prior to the 20th century: disease. But a new killer has risen in its place, and here reigns cancer. There is an extremely strong link between heart disease, stroke, and various abdomen-regioned cancers to cholesterol and saturated fat. What group of foods contains the most of these? Well, for cholesterol, animal products are the only ones that raise unhealthy cholesterol levels, and saturated fats are found, in a landslide, primarily in animal products. In fact, vegetarians have a cholesterol level of about 140, while the average meat eater has 190-210. When we drop eggs and milk from the diet and are technically 'vegan', the average cholesterol level is around 120. Nutritionalists will tell you that a level below 150 will keep you safe from heart disease and stroke, which in turn lowers your risks of cancer elsewhere to virtually nothing. Everything's connected, especially when it comes to our diets, the source of our energy.
 
When giving cow's milk to children, who need their own 'human' milk at a certain point, it causes a mess of problems including weak bones, anemia, and digestive disorders.
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It does not cause weak bones if is part of a balanced diet; sure if you ate all meat you would also have weak bones -- this doesn't mean that meat is bad in moderation. As for anemia, I don't even know where you are getting that from. Again maybe if all you consumed was dairy which is simply foolish. As for digestive disorders, how many times have I said, THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN TO ALL PEOPLE. PLENTY of people can digest milk perfectly well. It's highly annoying to me that you are trying to ignore this basic fact.

the human body seems to show too many long term problems associated with consumption of the cow's milk to make me think it is beneficial.
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Again, in excess, and in those people who are allergic or lactose intolerant, it can cause problems -- but it IS beneficial for many people who can consume it readily and when it's organic, of course.

Yes, humans can be seen as omnivores, but where exactly did that come into the evolutionary process? If [I suppose arguably] we evolved from apes, who are herbivores,
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Most apes are NOT herbivores, but omnivores like ourselves, in particular chimps which are our closest relatives. Whatever your source is for scientific info, it's not very good.

Regarding your last paragraph, I have my own tenuous theories about cholesterol and saturated fats (in fact I consider them to be more good than evil), but I won't get into those here, as they don't have that much support and they aren't really relevent.

However, I will say that you are making too many leaps of logic. Heart disease and cancer are both diseases that are caused by a number of factors, not just one dietary aspect. Europeans eat as much dairy, perhaps even more than Americans, and yet they are not as overweight or unhealthy (even though many of them smoke!).

Personally, I think the major risk factors for heart disease and obesity and cancer are: eating hydrogenated oils (i.e. fast food), consuming preservatives (as is in most packaged and processed food), not enough exercise, lack of vegetables and fruit in the diet, and lack of variety in the diet.

I grew up vegetarian, with only butter and cheese in the house -- no other dairy. My mother is vehemently against milk. However at the age of 12 I had a cholesterol level of 212 which is quite high. I don't know what my cholesterol level is now but I am quite healthy and far from overweight. And, I'm no longer anemic as I was on and off when I was vegetarian.

When I don't consume adequate animal protein, whether meat or dairy, I lose muscle mass (which I lack to begin with) rapidly. I have also been vegan; my hair started falling out. It works for some people, but not for me.

We all have different ancestries and it is my belief that people from different backgrounds are best suited for different diets. For some of us, that diet includes dairy and meat.
 
>>>> It does not cause weak bones if is part of a balanced diet; sure if you ate all meat you would also have weak bones -- this doesn't mean that meat is bad in moderation. As for anemia, I don't even know where you are getting that from. Again maybe if all you consumed was dairy which is simply foolish. As for digestive disorders, how many times have I said, THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN TO ALL PEOPLE. PLENTY of people can digest milk perfectly well. It's highly annoying to me that you are trying to ignore this basic fact.

>>>> Again, in excess, and in those people who are allergic or lactose intolerant, it can cause problems -- but it IS beneficial for many people who can consume it readily and when it's organic, of course.

I'm referring to comparitive studies in which milk was shown to be the only factor causing distress.
 
we're the only species that drinks milk into adulthood. Don't you think something is wrong with that picture?
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Uhhh did you even read this thread? We are also the only species with a written language...and the only species that cooks our food....do think those activities are 'wrong' too?

Please be logical people.
 
^^ Do you even follow what that statement meant? Please stop trying to rebute by simply fronting humanities extraordinary abilities as backup. The point that was trying to be made here was not about humanities advancements, but that perhaps it seems a little odd that we're still draining another organism's milk past the point in which it would be warranted, such as childhood (and even then, our own specie's milk is in order..)
 
I dont think drinking something elses milk is as weird as eating its feotus (like eggs) or its body. But there are enough animals that do that.
 
But what is 'odd' ? What's 'unnatural' ? How do you really decide?

Furthermore, as I have said more than once, ants consume the bodily fluids of aphids.

Milk contains nutrients, just like any other part of an animal -- that's really all there is to it. Seeking out nutrients is very basic; not 'odd'.
 
There is no denying the fact that milk has nutrients your body needs such as calcium, vitamin d and B5. It's the fact that cows are pumped with steroids and hormones that we in turn consume. I'm just not that comfortable drinking milk when I can get the nutrients in another healthier way.
 
I think we can all agree that probably the biggest problem with the consumption of milk IS the unnatural way our cows are kept and treated (the hormones, etc.) I think that really is the biggest factor in all of this.
 
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